GOT A COURT DATE? Important, please read......

[GaryH]

Preparing for Court

 

Its highly unlikely that your claim will get as far as court, but even so, you should still prepare exactly as you would if you knew it was going to - I.e. get a good, solid bundle in ON TIME, and make sure that you know your arguements. Particularly in relation to Lloyds service charge defence. Read this thread -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/81799-issues-raised-llloyds-bank.html

 

What to include in your bundle

 

Clearly this will depend to a certain extent upon which specific directions have been ordered (see this thread), but, IN ADDITION to everything else which you would normally submit, you should include;

 

1) A detailed Witness Statement, which specifically includes arguements which tackle the service charge arguement and "cloaking". The new Lloyds witness statement is now in the templates library, here -

 

Lloyds Witness statement

 

2) Your account T&C's. Ideally those from when the account was opened, and covering right through to the present day. If you haven't got them, attempt to get them from your branch or the Lloyds website.

 

We now have a T&C library up and running. Here -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/101412-document-library-work-progress.html

 

This is by no means complete though and we still need lots more. Please continue to try to obtain any and scan them to us using the e-mail address in my sig. If a postal address is required please PM me.

 

3) The full OFT report. No need to print out the whole thing, but you do need the front cover, section 1 "overview" and most importantly, section 4.21 "Disguised penalties". You should put this in INSTEAD of the OFT report summary from the Basic Bundle in the templates library.

 

Plus, the OFT report "Anayasis of Unfair Terms in Schedule 2". Particulary relevant is section's 5.8 -

 

Analysis of Unfair Terms in Schedule 2

 

Plus this -

 

Scots Law commission report

 

4) The McNamara interview. The transcript is fine.

 

5) Any correspondance or documents published by Lloyds which refers to their charges as - "Penalties", "defaults", "imposed when you breach your agreement", etc. Check your old T&C's if you have them and include anything which suggests that the charges are imposed as a result of a breach of your account agreement.

 

I have a letter in which Martin Orton states that Lloyds' charges exist - "in order that we can recoup our costs". This was in response to a direct request to justify their charges, and no mention was made in the letter of them being any sort of "service charge". Print it off from here to include in your bundles -

 

Orton letter

 

Here's another letter which refers to Lloyds charges as covering "staff" and "administrative" expenses -

 

Admin Costs p1

Admin Costs p2

Admin Costs p3

 

Simularly, if anyone else finds anything useful such as that, or in their old T&C's, etc, please let me have a copy so I can distribute it for others. Obviously you should block out personal details, and also I am happy to pay any postage costs if necessary.

 

6) Additional Case Law - See the attachments / link at the foot of this post. These are essential for Lloyds claims.

 

When you've submitted your bundle

 

In most cases they will pay around now, but if not, and if they don't submit documents, then on the day of the deadline for submissions (which will be stated on the directions order), you should inform the court of their non-compliance immediately.

 

Send the letter here -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/58011-directions-non-compliance-letters.html

 

Also, if a court date is imminent you should have a good read of the guidance notes.

 

Court guidance notes

 

______________________________________________________

 

Additional case law;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cases-library/95231-director-general-fair-trading.html

Bridge_v_Campbell_Discount[1].doc

Dunlop_Pneumatic_v_New_garage[1].doc

[speedo101]

Hi there

I have a court date on the 10th May but the judge appears to have asked for Lloyds to put in their bundle before I have to have mine in. This is what he put in the notice of allocatiion

 

Parties to file and serve documents 14 days before the hearing

 

The original documents shall be brought to the hearing

 

Defendant do by 4.00pm 10 April 2007 file and serve:

 

1.an itemised statement showing how each and every item charged is calculated

2.a copy of the contract with the customer

3. skeleton legal arguments if points of law are to be argued relating to punitive and/or unfair contract terms.

 

Thanks Speedo

[GaryH]

Trowbridge, by any chance?

 

Good order - not quite as good as the draft we propose, but it still requires them to submit things that they would really rather not.

 

They are in default now - send the non-compliance letter.

[speedo101]

No it's Bath but not that far away. So am I right in thinkning that all I have to do is send the non compliance letter (nothing else) to [problem] and the court?

 

Sorry to be dense but do I need to send both of the letters or just the second because as far as I understand it at the moment I am not supposed to have submitted anything to the court.

 

Thanks Speedo

[GaryH]

You need to get your bundle in by the end of this month - although you may want to hold off for the time being and see what happens. They had to comply with their part by 4 days ago, so I would suspect that they'll pay up pretty soon, or alternatively the judge may even strike out the defence.

 

For now, just send the (second) non-compliance letter to SC&M and to the court. Remove the bit that says "I can confirm my documents were filed and served......" becouse clearly you haven't yet.

 

If they haven't settled by the end of next week then you should start to get your bundle up together.

[speedo101]

Thanks for that I will get the letter off first thing.

Speedo

[nanaman]

It increasingly appears that many claimants are now getting sloppy with regards to bundles and preparing for court. We've seen quite a few threads recently where the claimant hasn't bothered submitting anything becouse its a "waste of time".

 

I feel too many people see it as a get rich quick scheme I positively fear the thought of the possibility of going to court unprepared !!

[pt2537]

Hi Gary,

 

I just wanted to check 2 things with you,

 

 

firstly, in the witness statement it says in paragraph 18

 

"18. However, and without prejudice to paragraph 18 above, in the event that the charges were accepted by this honourable court as being a fee for a contractual service, I will contend that that they are unreasonable under section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982."

 

am i right in thinking it should be "However, and without prejudice to paragraph 17 above", not 18? and secondly am i right in thinking that the statement of witness should be sent with the court bundle no matter what or does it only get sent if expressly asked for by the judge in the directions

 

 

i just wanted to check these points as i dont want to be ill prepared

 

 

thanks

 

paul

[GaryH]

"18. However, and without prejudice to paragraph 18 above, in the event that the charges were accepted by this honourable court as being a fee for a contractual service, I will contend that that they are unreasonable under section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982."

 

am i right in thinking it should be "However, and without prejudice to paragraph 17 above", not 18?

Yes your right - I've corrected it, thanks.

 

and secondly am i right in thinking that the statement of witness should be sent with the court bundle no matter what or does it only get sent if expressly asked for by the judge in the directions

Put it in the bundle no matter what.

[Pen]

Hi Gary.

I gather that I should hold off submitting the bungle till the very last minute. ie no later then 14 days before the hearing, I somehow in my case cannot see Lloyd's paying out before this date so would rather send it sooner rather then later does it matter if I send it sooner. I would much rather know I have done it and sent it and then not have to worry about it.

what do you think, does it make any difference?

 

Pen

[nicsussex]

I gather that I should hold off submitting the bungle

 

Really wouldn't recommend submitting a bungle at all!

[nanaman]

Yes the sight of a big brown humanoid type Bear in an envelope would be most distressing.......

 

 

 

 

sorry

[GaryH]

Hi Pen,

 

To be honest I always think its better to get it in early. It saves any last minute rushing around, for one thing, but also a bundle arriving at SC&M might just be the kick up the bum they need to settle.

 

Would you like me to send you the Martin Orton letter?

[socrates333]

Hi GaryH

 

Sorry to jump in, but I submitted my AQ with draft order of directions, and now have a notice of a pre trial review on 7th June (Cambridge). Do I need to prepare the bundle for this court date, if not is there anything else I need to prepare?

 

Thanks

Soc

[Pen]

Hi Gary, yes please. I have also copied your witness statement from the first post, once i have it all together i will touch base with you again just to make sure i have everything before sending it.

 

Thanks

PEN

(where I got bungle from I don't know, not watched rainbow in years)

[GaryH]

Yep, no problem.

[pt2537]

Hi GaryH

 

im curious,i hope you dont mind me asking but what is the martin orton letter about?

 

regards

 

paul

[GaryH]

I got into a protracted but ultimately pointless exchange of correspondance with him last year, when I was absolutely fuming about being charged what turned out to be a total of around £200 for being a quid short on a S/O payment. In one letter I directly demanded that he justify Lloyds charges - the response mentioned nothing of service charges, only that the charges are to recoup their costs. This is obviously a pretty significant contradiction to the usual party line and so it makes a useful addition to a court bundle.

 

PM me your e-mail and I'll send you a scan if you like.

[GaryH]

Hi GaryH

 

Sorry to jump in, but I submitted my AQ with draft order of directions, and now have a notice of a pre trial review on 7th June (Cambridge). Do I need to prepare the bundle for this court date, if not is there anything else I need to prepare?

 

Thanks

Soc

Sorry Soc, I missed this somehow.

 

No need for a full bundle. Treat it as a prelim hearing - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html#post553523

 

You could send the draft order to Lloyds to be agreed in advance of the review. They will probably not respond, but it may prompt them into settling or at very least it'll show the court that they're uncooperative. See this thread - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/40192-maryt-lloyds-trying-get.html#post424100

[GaryH]

Bumpty-bump!

[GaryH]

Bump

[nicsussex]

Perhaps this should become a sticky?

[DSM]

I second that

 

Dee

[GaryH]

I have requested it as a sticky.... I think I might have reached my "quota" though:rolleyes:

[nicsussex]

Happy to have it posted under my name - promise I won't take all the credit!