morteee v A&L/MBNA card now with DLC

[morteee]

hard decision to make, for all intents and purposes it LOOKS like an application form apart from the words "credit agreement" at the top.

 

DLC did send me a record of payments I made to them however never recieved the statements requested via them from the OC so they are technically in defalt there

 

I'll slap in the letter above and if they get nasty (which ofc they will) I'll chuck the application form letter at them as to all intents and purposes thats what they have sent me

 

have fought them off once and am more than capable of doing it again plus the alleged debt has now fallen OFF my credit record and woe betide them if it re-appears!

[clemma]

If its fallen off your credit file, then this would make it 6 years (+) old......is this not statute barred???

[morteee]

sadly not as they were recieving payments until they defaulted on the CCA request 2 years ago

[clemma]

Ah well - just send them the letter for now then. No doubt you will get a reply saying they have complied....but that's to be expected.

[morteee]

of course they will, this is a DCA we are talking about, they arent the brightest bunch in existence lol

[morteee]

checked my credit report this am and nothing on it so at least they havent tried adding it again

[morteee]

right these muppets tried to ring me today (big mistake they have a copy of the do not use my telephone number letter) they also left an incorrect telephone number for me to contact them back on ("sorry this telephone number is no longer in use" LOL!)

 

oh and on the answer machine the used the married name I stopped using 2 years ago, they left my alleged debts reference number, are they in breach of the data protection act?

 

and whats my next step? This account as far as I am concerned is STILL in dispute!

[morteee]

top, any advice how to move this forwards?

[morteee]

update this was an application form and NOT an agreement and wasnt CCA compliant - that was dealth with now have mercantile data on my case lol

[morteee]

ok Mr Locke has sent me a lovely letter this week stating "we have fully complied with your request for documentaion under the Consumer Credit Act 1974" and asks for details as to why the account is still disputed so I am going to send him the following as long as the experts on here find it acceptable

 

 

 

 

Hillesden Securities Ltd

Buckingham Road

Brackley

Northants

NN12 6DN

12th June 2010-06-12

Dear Mr Locke

Firstly I do not acknowledge any debt to your company or any associated companies.

Account Number ******* Formally Alliance and Leicester ******************

Thank you for your letter dated 10.06.10 stating that you have complied with my section 10 data protection Act request and my consumer credit act 1974 request.

You have NOT fully complied with my request for documentation under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 or my section 10 request under the Data Protection Act therefore the above account still remains in dispute.

As your documentation procedures are obviously lacking I will on this one occasion detail for you which items are still not in my possession however I suggest that your company re-evaluates its record keeping proceedures and also additional training be provided for those in your company who have advised you that that documentation provided complies with the above mentioned legislation.

1) A true copy of the original signed credit agreement; what you have sent is a copy of an application form, there is no counter signature or date from a representative of Alliance and Leicester, there are no prescribed terms (Credit Limit, repayment schedule and APR etc) on the document and there are no terms and conditions attached. As you are aware this makes the document un-enforceable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The alleged associated account number has been hand written on the bottom of the application form by a member of your company.

2) A copy of the default notice issued.

3) A copy of the terms and conditions.

4) A copy of the deed of assignment (I will accept a redacted copy if the document contains the details of other individuals as long as the details of my alleged account are clearly legible)

5) Copy statements of the original account, not your account, but the original creditors.

I also enclose copies of the most recent letters received by myself from your organisation that shows you are aware this account is still legitimately in dispute. The letter from yourself dated 22.09.09 clearly states you are aware the terms and conditions are outstanding and that the account will be placed on hold until they are forwarded to me, the letter dated 30.03.2010 clearly states that you are still awaiting this documentation. It was at this point you assigned the account to Mercantile Data Bureau, they may be an agent working on your behalf but as the account is in dispute this account should not have been passed to them.

I would like to take the opportunity to remind you that my requests under the consumer credit act 1974 and Data Protection Act have been unfulfilled now since the 15th May 2007, a period of over 3 years, and as such I am formally requesting a copy of your complaints procedure as this is totally unacceptable.

Regards

anything you feel I sould add or remove?

 

Morteee

[jon888999]

ok Mr Locke has sent me a lovely letter this week stating "we have fully complied with your request for documentaion under the Consumer Credit Act 1974" and asks for details as to why the account is still disputed so I am going to send him the following as long as the experts on here find it acceptable

 

DLC are total chancers, letters seem to come every month, then it goes to every 6 months.

I've started preempting letters now and email them every few months reminding them dispute is still ongoing and not to bother sending there monthly/ 6 monthly letter. I always CC this to the OFT. Seems to have shut up DLC/HILLESDEN (for now.) I'm fairly ceratin that as i've not paid anything for 18 months on a £18k debt, that if they had anything that would stand up in court, yhey'd have gone down that route.

Take Care

Jon

[morteee]

hi all

 

have been fighting the good fight v DLC for years now and today I have recieved the following letter

 

"Dear Morteee"

 

Further to our previous correspondence regarding the above account, I can confirm and advise the following:-

 

The original Lender has confirmed that at the time the account defaulted, a random date in 2010, a default notice was not issued.

 

At this time it was only necessary to issue a default notice to reciver an asset and as your account relates to a credit card this was not applicable.

 

We have fully complied with your request for documentation under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. You remain liable to repay the outstanding balance of £***,**, therefore you should now contact our collections department on 01280 846655 to discuss the repayment options available to you at this time.

 

yours sincerely"

 

 

now we are going to leave aside the fact they sent me an application form and not a credit agreement and the fact that the date in this letter is obviously wrong (the year was 2002)

 

what I need to know is this

 

was it a legal requirement to send a default notice in 2002?

 

are they correct that one only had to be sent for asset recovery and not credit card balances?

 

regards

 

Morteee

Edited January 14, 2011 by morteee

[Bazooka Boo]

OMG! Why oh why are you even entertaining these imbeciles?

If that is the best they can come up with then they are clearly going out of business. I am pretty confident that any agreement that comes under the CCA1974 WILL require a default notice to be sent prior to account termination and any further action, regardless of any "asset recovery"?

That is incredible!

[morteee]

I entertain them because they chuck something at me once every 1-2 years then vanish again, its gone off my credit file so thats not an issue however I want to be sure I am right before I tell them to "foxtrot oscar" so it doesn't bite me in the bum

 

I also want to send a copy of the letter, the alleged credit agreement and all the veiled threats they have made over the years to the relevant authorities to earn them a nice fat fine if I am correct in thinking they are talking hogwash in the above letter!

[Bazooka Boo]

IMO they are on very thin ice, I don't understand how they could possibly say or even think that they do not have to issue a DN for an agreement covered by the CCA1974??

[NailPost]

If its from 2002 its staute barred, end of. Tell the cretins in writing and that's the end of any discussion. They will argue, possibly correctly, that the debt is owed but there is absolutely nothing they can do to enforce it and to chase it after you've told them its out of time is reason not only to complain to these idiots but to report them to the OFT.

[morteee]

not statute barred, last payment was 4 years ago

[teaboy2]

Yes under the CCA 1974 (which covers Credit cards amoung other things) a Default Notice most be issued in order to collect outstanding arrears. Failure of a dafault to be issued or inaccurate invalidated such notice.

 

Now question is was the credit card agreement cancelled by the original creditor? if it was and no default notice was issued then tell them to foxtrot over the nearest cliff and jump for it, because termination of agreement with an invalid default notice is unlawful recission on contract, as such they can not enforce the debt. I would also CCA them and see if they actually have the CCA, if not they can't enforce the debt by court. So basically their buggered and they know they are, hence their false and misleading claims in the letter.

[morteee]

CCA was sent years ago, have a couple of VERY old threads on here about it which I will link in here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?82107-well-well-well-DLC&highlight=

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?90093

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?214128-morteee-v-DLC-round-2&p=2977044&highlight=#post2977044

 

so far have received from them no copy of default notice, no CCA (they sent a copy of an application form with THEIR account reference hand written on it) and a copy of THEIR statement of accounts, I have a nice recorded telephone call I made to them tonight where a so called supervisor threatened to send it to court with a "true, reconsituted copy" of the agreement as well

[teaboy2]

CCA was sent years ago, have a couple of VERY old threads on here about it which I will link in here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?82107-well-well-well-DLC&highlight=

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?90093

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?214128-morteee-v-DLC-round-2&p=2977044&highlight=#post2977044

 

so far have received from them no copy of default notice, no CCA (they sent a copy of an application form with THEIR account reference hand written on it) and a copy of THEIR statement of accounts, I have a nice recorded telephone call I made to them tonight where a so called supervisor threatened to send it to court with a "true, reconsituted copy" of the agreement as well

 

In that case sit back and see what their actuall next step is, as i bet its just more letters and calls. If so fire of this to them:

 

"Failure of a Default or Termination Notice to be accurate not only invalidates such notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain & Co NLD 14 July 199 but it is an unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the Court enforcing any alleged debt (Wilson v First County Trust Ltd (2003) UKHL 40, Wilson V Robertsons (London) Ltd(2006) EWCA Civ 1088, Wilson v Pawnbrokers (2005) EWCA Civ 147) - but would also give the claimant a claim for damages in the sum of £1000 (Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society (1996) 4 All ER 119).

lease be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing.

 

Also with reference to coming to my home address, please also note the following:

 

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and any necessary action will be taken."

 

That, and informing them that if they continue to send letters to you making threats of legal action you will take your own legal action against them for unlawful recission and breach of the malicious communications act of 1988 (which by the way is an offence punishable with upto 6 months imprisonment), as they have knowingly sent threats and false infromation to take legal action against you to caouse stess and anxiety, when they know full well that they can not do so due to the debt being unenforcable.

 

Then again sit back and enjoy the thoughs of watching the silly idiots take in your response.

[morteee]

so, let me get this right, by admitting a default notice was never sent on this account they have shown that not only is the account now totally invalid but that they also cannot send it to court without it being thrown back in their faces AND also opens the door to my having a claim for damages?

 

btw they have admitted also in the past that the account is now their property and that they bought it from the OC so that would seem that A&L made an unlawful recission of contract?

 

if thats the case lets hope they send it to court, a grand would come in handy about now!

[teaboy2]

yep you got it. But you still need to make sure the agreement was cancelled by the original creditor, though i suspect that given such the huge amount of time this has been going on an what you said about tha account now being property of theirs, that it was indeed cancelled (unlawful recission of contract), and sold to DLC.

 

So yeah sit back send the above letter, and wait see what haapens. if they take it to court, then not only defend against their claim but issue a counter claim at the same time.

[morteee]

time to CCA A&L then methinks!

[Bazooka Boo]

WHY Bother? You have already issued a CCA to the first idiot, they can't supply. so why continue wasting good money?? There is NO need.

[teaboy2]

Exactly they are still in non compliance with your original CCA, though if you no longer have a copy of the CCA request or know the dates, then yes i would agree you should CCA them again just so that you have records of doing so and theirfore proof of their non complience, if they again fail to comply. Besides they still can't enforce the debt regardless of whether they have a valid CCA, as it unenforcable anyway due to the unlawful recission which takes precedent other any valid CCA.

 

i think it best to SAR the original creditor to make sure it was sold, which i think was what you ment to say instead of CCAing them.