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Helpme43 v Bank of Scotland ***WON***


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Hi everyone,

I am in the middle of a bank charges reclaim with Bank Of Scotland, whom I have banked with for over 14 years. In the past five years (length I have had this particular acount) I have been charged £7,042 of charges!

I sent the first letter asking for refund of charges on 2/3/07

I received a standard reply within two weeks, saying the FSO gave them 8 weeks to reply.

I sent the LBA on 16/3/07

I then received a second holding letter, apologising for the delay and saying they would reply by 3 May 2007, at the latest.

 

I am now able to proceed via MCOL, but, due to the size of my claim I am having to hang fire - as I don't have the necessary free cash to pay the court fee for such a large amount - I will launch this claim as soon as I can afford it.

 

However, in the meantime I have been reading stories of success and otherwise with HBOS and realised that sometimes they take a while to reply. Although it is not ideal I am hoping they will reply without the need to go to court. I am more than happy to negotitate if they try and make me settle for less than the full amount.

 

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Has anyone else had success claiming for such a large amount?

Thanks so much for any help

 

Helpme43

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If you have difficulty in paying the court fees then you should look here.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/25457-guide-reclaiming-bank-charges.html?garpg=9

 

Not once have HBOS attended court to contest a claim for charges, do not worry, if you exercise patience and follow the instructions on this site, you will receive 100% of your charges - you do not need to accept a penny less and neither should you.

 

There are many, many claims for much larger sums than this - not one of which has been challenged in court.

iGroup (GE Money) - AoS Filed late, defence late, amended defence also late despite extra time requested and granted.

Vanquis - Claim issued, no AoS or Defence received

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HI, just an update. It is 16 April and I have still had no further concrete reply from BOS. I rang them yesterday and was again told, they are snowed under and I will hear soon. I got HagenUk's advice about getting my Court fees paid, but it is very difficult for me to get remission of my fees, so i'm a bit struck until the 30th, when I will be bale to set aside enough cash to ay for the court fees on a large claim. In the meantime I'll just sit and wait and see what happens.

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Hi Helpme43 stick to your guns they will not go to court they will not explain their costs for charges in court as this would realy cost them as the floodgates would realy open.

 

keep going will watch your thread I won without going to court on 2295 dpick:p

cannot find it A to Z

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-forums-website-questions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

 

Halifax :D

Paid in full £2295

 

MBNA:mad: 20/03/2008 settled in full out of court

 

Capital One:D

07/07/2007 Capital one charges paid in full £1666

19/01/2008 recovered PPI £2216 + costs

 

Littlewoods :-D

12/08/2007 write off £1176.10 debt.

 

JD Williams charges refunded in full £640

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Hi, it's the 21st of April and I have been a perfect nuisance all week - ringing BOS and asking them if there is any progress on my claim. I've decided this is not a tactic that will work with them - as they continually tell me that all claims are being dealt with in strictly date order - can anyone help here? My original claim was 2/3 07 - LBA 16/3/07 - and they say their 8 weeks is up on 3/5/07. I know that I have seen Halifax claims from post this date settled, but what about Bank of Scotland?

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Presumably you gave them 14 days in your LBA?

 

In which case, you are way overdue to sue them - if you are not prepared to do this, don't issue deadlines.

iGroup (GE Money) - AoS Filed late, defence late, amended defence also late despite extra time requested and granted.

Vanquis - Claim issued, no AoS or Defence received

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Agreed Hagenuk - but I can't afford the Court fee, otherwise I would be there already. I am trying to be sensible and 'spend within my means' - I don't have enough spare cash to issue Court proceedings till the end of the month - I'm being prudent - the choice was school trousers and shoes for my two sons, or issue MCOL - the boys came first! I will be issuing as soon as I have funds in my account - I don't agree with spending money before you have it - as that kind of behaviour is what has got most of us where we are today with the banks, and I'm a reformed character and I don't intend to incur bank charges, getting bank charges back....

 

Thanks for your help though

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Did you read the link in post #2?

 

Very little is understood about the system of exemption and remission and I have come across a great deal of people in the chatroom and on the forums who are delaying the filing of their claims for lack of funds to meet the fees.

 

In order to qualify for remission you need only demonstrate that if you paid the whole fee you would suffer financial hardship. You have demonstrated that above - if you have to make such choices then tell the court staff what you have just told 134,000 people and they will waive the fees.

 

Even though you may not be exempt from paying a fee but you think you would suffer financial hardship if you did pay it, you are entitled to apply for a remission. At all times Court staff must ensure that they meet the statutory obligation contained in S92(3) of the Courts Act 2003 of protecting access to justice.

"(3) When including any provision in an order under this section, the Lord Chancellor must have regard to the principle that access to the courts must not be denied."

 

However, you cannot use MCOL and also apply for a remission or exemption, this must be done at a court using an EX160 form.

 

The exemption and remission applies to all fees, not just the fees for the N1, but also the AQ, N244 etc.

 

You should take another look at that link above and also at the EX160

iGroup (GE Money) - AoS Filed late, defence late, amended defence also late despite extra time requested and granted.

Vanquis - Claim issued, no AoS or Defence received

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Hi Hagenuk, I do understand the point you are making - but I am not entitled to remission, I have checked; I work full-time, I have a good salary and, it is simply that I only have so much spare cash every month, after being responsible about my outgoings. This month, that cash cannot go on a Court claim, next month it can, so I am not being deprived of Court access - just need to bide my time. Also as I live and work in the back of beyond- I cannot get to a Court to apply - it has to be online - as I work full time, but from a location too far away from the nearest Court office to be able to get there during working hours.

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I will not post on the subject again as you seem certain that you cannot file your claim any earlier - but have you been told, by a member of HMCS staff that you are not entitled to a remission?

 

This is not means tested, it does not matter what you earn. What matters is whether or not the fee for filing your claim will cause you financial hardship. That means right now, when you need to file it. If you do not have the money to file your claim then that qualifies you for remission.

 

By law you are entitled to access to justice as and when you need it - not just when you have some spare cash.

 

File your claim by post if you cannot travel to a court.

iGroup (GE Money) - AoS Filed late, defence late, amended defence also late despite extra time requested and granted.

Vanquis - Claim issued, no AoS or Defence received

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Hi, thanks so much for your help and advice HagenUk - I really don't want to sound ungrateful or as if you don't help - you do!

 

However, I don't have a cheque book, so postal application is not as easy as it sounds!

Also, I can afford to take them to Court - I would prefer that State resources were spent on those who genuinely can't afford it - i.e. those who are not as fortunate as I am - as I said before I have a good, well paid job, just lots if outgoings! I have filed two clams online this month (Total cost £60) against Tesco Personal Finance and GE Capital Bank - but that was my limit this month. I am not delaying against BOS, to be nice to them, but, because, like most people, I have only got so much disposable income. I suppose this is a moral issue for me - I can afford the fees if I wait a couple of weeks and there is no such thing as a free lunch in life - if I claim remission when I really don't need to, that cost gets added to all our tax bills, so it comes back to bite me in the end!

 

My error was in issuing 7 bank charges claims all at once, which means that I have got to the MCOL stage at the same time for all of them (bar First Direct who paid up in full). Which as the combined Court claim costs for 6 claims, one of which (to BOS) is for £7,048, are too much for me to pay at one go - so I've had to target two now and the rest as soon as I can afford them.

 

Thanks for your help and advice.

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It is very admirable that you wish to pay you own way, however, the taxpayer does not foot the bill as the notional fees that are waived are added to the cost of a successful action, so that at least defendants do not benefit, nor the taxpayer suffer detriment, from their opponents' lack of funds. Given that not one bank claim has failed thus far, you can be sure you will not be funding any claims through your taxes.

 

The test for remission is based on both income and expenditure—it takes full account of all of a person's commitments and liabilities not just how much money they have or receive.

 

In protecting access to justice through the system of fee concessions, the taxpayer, in effect, paid subsidies in the last financial year with a value of nearly £23 million for those exemptions and remissions with over £15 million, or 67 per cent, of exemptions and remissions in respect of family proceedings alone. In effect, the tax payer funds very little of any civil litigation.

 

Finally, you may send a postal order if you do not have a cheque book.

iGroup (GE Money) - AoS Filed late, defence late, amended defence also late despite extra time requested and granted.

Vanquis - Claim issued, no AoS or Defence received

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Hi, so you talked me round:

- I've filed another claim with MCOL - vs Capital One (now three issued - Cap One, Tesco P F and GE Capital Bank) and that means £110 spent on court fees already! So, as I had a second account with BOS with a much smaller claim on it - only £500 and something - I filled in the remission form and the N1 on this and have posted them to my local County Court office today, together with annotated bank statements, as evidence, to see if they will allow me remission of teh Court fees. I do feel guilty at doing this though. Thought if this worked I'd do the same for my big claim vs BOS ( i.e the one this thread is about) and also the MBNA and Morgan Stanley claims I have yet to issue.

Paperwork - even completing on computer, took me several goes and about three hours to complete - and the subject of what evidence would support my contention that I could not afford the fees was an issue.

 

Assuming my claim for fees remission is successful -and I can go ahead with my larger BOS claim what strategy should I use for my BOS larger claim?

 

The claim is for:

£7,084 of charges and overdraft interest on these charges of £978.81 and, if we go to Court, also the 8% interest of £1,475.90. A total of £9,538.71.

I realise the small claims track is usually only for claims up to £5,000. Should I claim it all in one claim? I am claiming in England as this is where I live, even though my BOS acount is in Scotland

I confess I am a little worried due to the large amount of money involved.

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I would not advocate splitting the claim, this can lead to problems. Also a claim of this size should be filed using an N1 and not MCOL as although you can do it via MCOL the Particulars of Claim are severely restricted online.

 

The limits for the Small Claims Track are not set in stone and if you can convince a Judge that this is a simple claim then it may yet be heard (should it get that far) on the SCC, but I admit that is unlikely given that it is some way over the limit.

 

All the information you need to make this claim can be found on this site and many claims much larger than this have been paid - you should not concern yourself with it unduly. Keep reading and come back here and ask any questions that you may have.

iGroup (GE Money) - AoS Filed late, defence late, amended defence also late despite extra time requested and granted.

Vanquis - Claim issued, no AoS or Defence received

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Thanks Hagenuk - will go back to my work - which today is understanding Vietnamese taxation laws - and feel a bit better about this.

I'll post as to the reply to my remission request when i receive it.

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Can't help feeling that I'm only posting 'cos I'm bored and can't bear the wait - heard nothing at all, from anybody!

 

Have just used the time to file two more N1s on two other claims - but now I'm having to apply for remission of Court fees, this seems to be very slow - I sent one of these off last Wednesday (the BOS preference account claim) and I've still heard nothing from the Court! At least with MCOL you get an instant response and you know your claim will get issued. However, I just don't have the spare cash for all these claims, especially the £250 I'd need to isue this BOS claim! - Hoping I will have some spare cash soon.......

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Hi I would appreciate some help please (hagenuk in particular) Ive had my application for remission knocked back and now I can't file at court re BOS. I have effectiveley been judged and means tested by the court employees - feel really fed up. Can anyone advise?

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You may appeal this decision and should do so right away. Look here for details of what you must do next.

 

Court Fees - Do you have to pay them?

 

The first step is to contact the court manager, as detailed above.

iGroup (GE Money) - AoS Filed late, defence late, amended defence also late despite extra time requested and granted.

Vanquis - Claim issued, no AoS or Defence received

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Received a letter from Bank of Scotland this morning - dated 2 May 2007. Their own 8 week reply period was up on 3 May 2007. They have completely refused my request for refund of charges. No offer!

 

I read a few HBOS threads last night and noticed this had happened to a lot of Halifax claimers recently. I would be interested to know - is this becasue I have not gone to Court yet - i.e. they think I am not serious, so they just try and fob me off? Or, is this a new HBOS tactic? Or, is it a BOS tactic? i.e. not Halifax.

 

I am going to sit down this morning and do my form N1 and application for remission of fees, because I cannot see when I will be able to afford the £250 Court fee in the next couple of months. I already have 6 other cases filed under MCOL re Cap One, MBNA, Morgan Stanley, Tesco visa card, GE Capital and BOS smaller current account. I had originally applied to Court for remission of fees, with an N1 on the smaller BOS account. However, my application for remission was declined - so I decided that I would use the £120 I had free to issue 3 smaller claims on MCOL, as this money was nowhere near the money I needed to issue on the bigger BOS account. I think I now understand what the Court want to give remission - so I'm going to gather all the evidence and send it off (I made the mistake of relying on bank statements alone last time, I now realise I need to send them mortgage statements, water and gas bills etc - as this is the only way they will accept things) - in these days of identity fraud, I am not very happy with the stuff I am going to have to send to the Court. Basically it is my entire financial history.

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Hi, would appreciate some help with my claim for remission of fees for my claim against BOS> I am sending them bank statements since January and copies of documetns which verify:1. the amount of varous direct debits to be made from my account and also my level of indebtedness on credit cards etc.

2. I need to prove that paying the £250 will cause financial hardship - but the other side of this is my access to justice. Can anyone give me some suitable wording to go in my letter to my local court about why, if I amnnot alowed renmission and cannot make my claim, that they will be denying me access to justice and why this would be a problem?

 

Hope I'm being clear enough - I think what I really need to know is exactly what I have to prove to get remission - it seems to be a fairly subjective decision and the local court office seem to have taken one look at my salary and decided I don't need remission and do not seem to be aware of how they should be assessing my claim.

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Good news - won re my smaller claim with BOS re my preference account:

Bank: Bank of Scotland

Amount claimed: £375 + 8% interest of £31.86 +court fee of £50

Amount paid: £375 + court fee of £50

Story - prelim letter 17/3/07

LBA - 5/4/07

Filed MCOL 4/5/07 - not yet acknowledged

Received 2 letters:

26/5/07 - holding letter - will reply by 10/5

Today letter dated 10/5 offering £345 as a good will gesture - this was the amount of my original claim - but I have incurred another charge of £30 in the meantime and so I added this on to the figure claimed at court. They offered the £375 + refund of the court fee - I did not stick out for the interest, as, on this one it is so small (£31.86) adn I was happy with what I had been offered.

Amount will be credited to my account - but I could have had a cheque if I had wanted. I am happy to credit this to the account as this has an overdrawn balance on it, which I am gradually clearing and this amount will help me with that.

Will keep court claim going till the money credited - £50 to be credited today and the other £375 on receipt of my acceptance form. They also allowed me to amend the acceptance form, as it said I accepted the payment for all my HBOS accounts - and I pointed out that I had another claim ongoing for another account.

 

£820 refunded on 3 claims now - another 5 at court and 1 about to go there and SARs out on other accounts......

 

Thanks you to everyone on this site and also to the Money saving expert site too.

Still have the boig BOS claim ongoing though

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Excellent, well done!

iGroup (GE Money) - AoS Filed late, defence late, amended defence also late despite extra time requested and granted.

Vanquis - Claim issued, no AoS or Defence received

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thanks hagenuk!! This is the claim I tried to claim remission on, but the court knocked me back - have applied for remission on my big BOS cliam instead now - but been waiting over a week and still not heard from the court!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

On my second, larger, claim with BOS I finally issued my court claim on 18/5/07. Today (25/5/07) I finally received a written offer from BOS - given I originally wrote on 2/3/07 this has taken some time! They have offered just over £4,100 against my claim for £7,100 of charges (which rises to £10,016 with both overdraft interest on the charges (as per the spreadshet from CAG - i.e. where you input the interest charges for a month and the amount of o/d you had that month, if any) and the 8% court interest). I have been given a number to ring re my claim, however, as I have now issued Court action I am not sure this will help me, as I now require interest and court fees as well as the basic charges to settle the claim. I will ring on Tuesday (when they are back at work) to reject the offer - by the way they have said it will go into my account within 14 days if I say nothing. And, if, as I suspect, all they are prepared to offer will be £7,100 of the charges +the £250 court fee, I fully intend to hang fire and wait to see how this takes it course. After the phone call on Tuesday I will then put the outcome of that call in writing to them, so ther is no doubt - addressing it both to customer relations and their legal department. Is that reasonable? Does anyone have any advice for this next stage?

 

many thanks as always for all your help

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Can you explain how your charges rise to over £10k for a £7k claim?

 

What rate of interest are you using?

iGroup (GE Money) - AoS Filed late, defence late, amended defence also late despite extra time requested and granted.

Vanquis - Claim issued, no AoS or Defence received

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