Philips Bailiffs

[chrismc]

Thanks Guys....looks OK to me, just wondered if I am going over the top a bit with the ECHR stuff, but what the hell they probably won't understand it anyway.

[chrismc]

Right this is a letter I am hand delivering to my Local Authority, along with copies of all correspondence and payment schedules etc that have been sent to Philips and my Preliminary Approach Letter.

 

Any comments are welcome!!

 

Managing Directors Office

Wxxxxx Bxxxxxx Council,

xxxx

xxxxxxxxx

xxxxx

 

DELIVERED BY HAND

 

24th June 2006

 

 

Re: Your Agents Philips Bailiffs & Enforcement Officers

Account No’s 3xxxxxx, 3xxxxxx, 3xxxxxx

 

Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing to you concerning the actions of your agents Philips Bailiffs and Enforcement Officers.

I can confirm I am taking action against the above to reclaim unlawful fees and charges they have applied on the above three accounts during the period March 2005 – January 2006.

 

I have enclosed copies of three letters already written and sent to them by Recorded Delivery for the full and complete disclosure under S7 of the Data Protection Act, to which they have only partially complied and in 14 days time they will in fact be in breach of the Data Protection Act.

However, with regards to the scant information they have supplied and with what information I have to hand, I calculate that your agents have overcharged me in the sum of £1053.95 in fees and charges on an original debt of £1604.36 which has been paid in full to yourselves.

I am sure you will be aware, under the National Standards for Enforcement Agents 2002 that fees should be reasonable and not disproportionate to the size of the debt, however, in this case the fees levied on the above accounts are totally disproportionate to the original debt and this I have proven and itemised in a letter to them, copied to yourselves and enclosed.

 

I am also sure you will be aware there have been recent cases that have been taken back in front of the Magistrates Court over these issues, with the result that the councils have been forbidden to take any further recovery action, or in other words, the debt has been written off

As stated I have enclosed copies of all documentation to your agents Philips Bailiffs sent to them over the last 4 weeks and I look forward to hearing your reply and what actions you are prepared to take on your agents to facilitate the recovery of my money.

Yours faithfully,

 

xx xxxxxxxx

Chris

[pmhread]

Fella.... you are my hero

 

I'm scared of those letters and they're not even directed at me!

[chrismc]

Fella.... you are my hero

 

I'm scared of those letters and they're not even directed at me!

 

Cheers pmhead....that is what I hope for, I hope they think I know more than they do, a few threats here and there like they do to us may just work.

[elsinore]

One of the most interesting aspects of your case chris is how the Council respond to your excellent letter. I can't wait!!

 

I'm sure I've read somewhere that a council is ultimately (legally?) responsible for the actions of their appointed agents, but I'm blowed if I can find it. There's so much stuff on here about bailiffs now that one can go boss-eyed looking!! Someone will point it out, I'm sure.

 

Elsinore

[chrismc]

One of the most interesting aspects of your case chris is how the Council respond to your excellent letter. I can't wait!!

 

I'm sure I've read somewhere that a council is ultimately (legally?) responsible for the actions of their appointed agents, but I'm blowed if I can find it. There's so much stuff on here about bailiffs now that one can go boss-eyed looking!! Someone will point it out, I'm sure.

 

Elsinore

Yes it will be interesting, you are right about the council having a responsibility as they employ them or engage their services at the very least. I have tons of information on this now, it will all depend on their responses from now on though which way it will go.

 

• From October 1998 bailiffs have to have a certificate granted by a court to collect council tax. A complaint from you can help get the certificate withdrawn. Ask your local county court if they have a form for making a complaint. If not, write in to the court manager with details. The court will hold a hearing and can cancel the bailiff's certificate, order compensation and order return of the goods. A bailiff can be fined for collecting without a certificate. However, even if the bailiff's certificate is cancelled, it continues to have effect for any previous possession agreement unless the judge orders otherwise.
  
• You can complain to the magistrates' court, and there have been cases recently where the debt has, in effect, been written off when it has been proved that bailiffs have acted illegally. This is done by making a complaint and asking for a hearing. The court can order return of the goods or compensation.
  
• You should complain to the council as the bailiffs are acting as their agent. They can ask the bailiffs to look at your complaint and change their procedures. If the council won't help you could talk to your local councillor who may be prepared to take your complaint up with the council.
  
• You can ask the Local Government Ombudsman to look at your complaint if the council refuse to help you.

 

Chris

[emmaphill]

Hi

 

I am in similar position but charges nowhere near what some of you are saying but still feel its the principle of the matter!

 

I am being chased by a company called Newlyn my debt originally for unpaid council tax was £255 i managed to pay £100 off then due to change in circumstances could pay no more debt now stands at near on £400 and the charges they sent me are silly! Have tried contacting council but no reply!

 

I have told newlyn i will not pay them another penny until these charges are reviewed to which i had a phonecall from them - the most rude and obnoxious woman ever! Who said i quote if you had a credit card and didn't pay you would have charges well its exactly the same for this!

 

What options do i have?

[emmaphill]

Hi

 

I am in similar position but charges nowhere near what some of you are saying but still feel its the principle of the matter!

 

I am being chased by a company called Newlyn my debt originally for unpaid council tax was £255 i managed to pay £100 off then due to change in circumstances could pay no more debt now stands at near on £400 and the charges they sent me are silly! Have tried contacting council but no reply!

 

I have told newlyn i will not pay them another penny until these charges are reviewed to which i had a phonecall from them - the most rude and obnoxious woman ever! Who said i quote if you had a credit card and didn't pay you would have charges well its exactly the same for this!

 

What options do i have?

[chrismc]

Hi

 

I am in similar position but charges nowhere near what some of you are saying but still feel its the principle of the matter!

 

I am being chased by a company called Newlyn my debt originally for unpaid council tax was £255 i managed to pay £100 off then due to change in circumstances could pay no more debt now stands at near on £400 and the charges they sent me are silly! Have tried contacting council but no reply!

 

I have told newlyn i will not pay them another penny until these charges are reviewed to which i had a phonecall from them - the most rude and obnoxious woman ever! Who said i quote if you had a credit card and didn't pay you would have charges well its exactly the same for this!

 

What options do i have?

 

Catch 22 if you pay by credit or debit card you will probably end up paying another 5% on top, that is what happened to me.

 

Read all this thread Emmaphil all the answers are here, also read the Bailiifs and Sherrifs thread.

 

But in your case we need more information:

 

Have you already let the Bailiffs into your home? If you have you do not have as many options, go and see the Council and complain about the excessive charges they have added on and tell them you will deal only with the Council and nor the Bailiffs, see if you can get them to take the debt back. Not as easy when you have already let them in as they may have a Walking Possession which means they can now break in at a later date.

 

If they have not been into your home, go online and make a payment to the Council, then when the Bailiff comes back, (don't ever let hiim in) tell him you are now dealing directly with the council and they have accepted a payment from you. Don't tell himm how or why, it is nothing to do with him!! Tell him you will no longer deal with him directly. He will jump up and down and throw his dummy out of the pram, but you have to be stroing and tough it out, he may threaten all sorts of things, but he cannot do anything really.

 

Then go in to the council, tell them you made a payment direct to them, through their online system and so they have by default accepted your payment directly so you will now only deal with them and to call the Bailiffs off. If they say they cannot until the case is handed back, then tell them OK get back to me when you have the case back then.

 

In the meantime, however long it takes try and keep making your monthly payments online, or whatever you can afford, they cannot do much about it if you have kept paying them something.

 

There is a lot more do's and don'ts in this thread and the other one I have linked you to above.

 

Chris

[MARTIN3030]

Letter looks bob on Chris.

 

Will be interesting to see what follows.

I can see its the Council who instigated the baliffs actions but I am sure they will say its them who have taken the money and them who owe you.

 

The baliffs will need to address more than one issue and clearly you have them bang to rights on 3 sep points

 

There are some serious breaches of their proper conduct here and its difficult to see how the council can afford to ignore investigating your complaints.

 

A hellova frightener for the baliffs to who really dont seem to be looking as though they can defend their unlawful actions.

 

Your case will ruffle more than a few feathers and as you well know has stirred up so much interest here that will benefit loads of others.

 

Look forward to the pos outcome......like I suspect a lot of others here also !

 

[chrismc]

Well the letter to Philips is going Recorded Delivery Monday and just so all this synchronises well, I am Hand Delivering the Councils letter along with copies of all communications to Philips Tuesday.

 

Then I sit back and light the blue touch paper he he ;-);-) and watch the fireworks. I hope it doesn't turn out to be a damp squib!!!

 

Watch this space!!!:grin::grin:

[BotB]

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

I would recommend you delete this paragraph. It weakens your letter. If you want to give them another 14 days then there's no need to tell them that at this point.

 

Rather than ask for a response "in 14 days" be specific and ask for a reply by close of business on a specific date. That way, there is absolutely no room for doubt on the deadline for a response.

 

I am also sure you will be aware there have been recent cases that have been taken back in front of the Magistrates Court over these issues, with the result that the councils have been forbidden to take any further recovery action, or in other words, the debt has been written off

 

Add to your letter: "I therefore give you notice that I intend to pursue all rights and remedies available to me against XXXXXX Council for the unlawful actions of its agents, Phillips Bailiffs, unless this matter is resolved to my satisfaction.

 

The lead officer of a local authority is usually called the Chief Executive. Some use slightly different terminology but I haven't come across the use of Managing Director as a title before - if that's what they're called in your Council, fair enough - you could easily check with a quick phone call. Its just a small point but in my opinion a lot of the effect of a letter comes from its accuracy and the subtle indications that the author really does know his/her stuff.

 

Keep at it!

 

[chrismc]

Thanks BotB, ..........you are absolutely right I have already amended the letters. The Chief Exec could be right, but on my Councils website it mentions in a number of places the Managing Directors offfice, however it was always my intention to call them Monday and ask before actually addressing it to anyone at all!!

 

I was also going to ask for a name and address it to he/her as I think it adds more impact.

 

Again I agree that subtle indications like this shows that the author really does know his/her stuff.

 

One reason I posted the letters here, is little things like you have pointed out can make a big diffference to the outcome.

[Recycler]

i wouldnt waste too much time with acea or esa the bailiff regulatory bodies - monks do not reform monasteries

other than that let them have it

[chrismc]

i wouldnt waste too much time with acea or esa the bailiff regulatory bodies - monks do not reform monasteries

other than that let them have it

 

Yes I agree...I didn't think they would do much, (look after their own) but it all adds a little more weight to my case. Good quote about the monks though

[chrismc]

Preliminary Approach Letter sent to Philips Recorded Delivery today!!

[MARTIN3030]

excellent ...............lets hope this will be a great contribution if not a total solution to extortionate plane fares !

 

 

btw did you see the links I left on RMP ?

[chrismc]

excellent ...............lets hope this will be a great contribution if not a total solution to extortionate plane fares !

 

 

btw did you see the links I left on RMP ?

 

Yes it will all help if it comes off!!!....yes I left you a reply on RMP, did you get my emails??

[MARTIN3030]

I have pm you a good link.

 

will look at the e mails ta

 

[chrismc]

Letter Hand Delivered to Managing Directors Office at the Local Authority this morning addressesd to him personally as Private and Confidential. Enclosing copies of all correspondence with Philips.

[MARTIN3030]

So do you think there will be something hanging from his door today Chris?

 

a "DO NOT DISTURB" notice maybe ?

 

 

 

[chrismc]

So do you think there will be something hanging from his door today Chris?

 

a "DO NOT DISTURB" notice maybe ?

 

 

 

 

Yes I certainly hope so he he

[CrispDust]

I think it would be correct to assume that a Council has a vicarious liabilty when it appoints an agent to undertake its dirty work. As far as I am aware they don't sell the debt to the baliffs, and therefore they must be satisfied when referring the matter to external agents that they act responsibly and within in the law.

[MARTIN3030]

Absolutely,they must be beyond reproach............which clearly this bunch arent.

 

Chris knows that,and so do everyone else who has been following this amazing story.

 

 

 

:o

[chrismc]

I think it would be correct to assume that a Council has a vicarious liabilty when it appoints an agent to undertake its dirty work. As far as I am aware they don't sell the debt to the baliffs, and therefore they must be satisfied when referring the matter to external agents that they act responsibly and within in the law.

 

Yes you are right, the Council are ultimately responsible for the actions of their agents, I know this and as of today the leader of the council a certain Mr C knows I know it too!!

 

I think this will probably be the first time anyone has questioned them in this respect, certainly I very much doubt anyone will have threatened to make a claim against their elected collectors of taxes, and with all the back up/legal knowledege I have put together, so it will be interesting to see what they have to say. They may just try and fob me off ;-) but if they do I will go in and see them personally, or maybe I will start a claim on both parties that would be fun

 

I can just see Philips and Mr C this morning getting a wedge of documents dumped on their desks at the same time. and the phone calls between the two of them (hopefully)

 

Chris