Philips Bailiffs

[chrismc]

Yes I know guys....but one step at a time.....lets see what excuses he comes up with to start! I still have the MCOL option with Philips if the meeting with the LTSM gets me no where!!

[welly]

Good luck chris and cant wait to see what they have to say to you and will be waiting for your return on wednesday.

[chrismc]

Good luck chris and cant wait to see what they have to say to you and will be waiting for your return on wednesday.

Thanks Welly!

[paulson1985]

Yes goodluck Chris,

 

As ever I will be thinking of you and once again thanks for everything,

You have been great,

[freebird]

good luck Chris, I've been following all this slowly, very slowly to try and take it all in.......

 

funny how not all the council's have a smuch info to help as manchester..... I'm going to look into Denbigh's now just in case mine goes that far.

Zooman and everyone else again have been supportive, and maybe when I start to make payments, they'll back off, but I may need to follow your line at some stage.

hope it goes well mate.

good luck

Freebird x

[MARTIN3030]

Yep good luck Chris undoubtably the taxation manager will be pacing the living room at home tonight and asking his wife to check over the statements he has probably already prepared.

 

I also have visions of Philips with their glass on the wall listening to the meeting whilst the other looks thru the keyhole:)

 

I would not trust drinking the coffee..........just in case lol

 

 

[Ellie968]

Just a thought for people wanting to obtain a statement of bailiff fees - instead of asking for a breakdown of charges under the DPA s7 which carries a fee - point out that under the National Standards for Enforcement Agents - the Code (albeit advisory and therefore not legally enforceable, but any bailiff collecting for a local authority or magistrates court should be adhering to them) they are obliged to supply a statement of fees on receipt of a written request for no charge.

Ellie

[MARTIN3030]

Thanks Ellie we are aware of this...........more to the point baliffs have a requirement to supply this.

 

I dont know if you are thinking someone has applied for dpa request for this info............if you have been reading this thread you should go a little further back.

[Ellie968]

Thanks Ellie we are aware of this...........more to the point baliffs have a requirement to supply this.

 

I dont know if you are thinking someone has applied for dpa request for this info............if you have been reading this thread you should go a little further back.

 

 

durr!! somehow only got the first page of this very interesting thread . Sorry peeps. Keep up the good work.

E

[rambo]

Good luck mate.

[chrismc]

Yes goodluck Chris,

 

As ever I will be thinking of you and once again thanks for everything,

You have been great,

Thanks PC...good luck with all your cases

[chrismc]

good luck Chris, I've been following all this slowly, very slowly to try and take it all in.......

 

funny how not all the council's have a smuch info to help as manchester..... I'm going to look into Denbigh's now just in case mine goes that far.

Zooman and everyone else again have been supportive, and maybe when I start to make payments, they'll back off, but I may need to follow your line at some stage.

hope it goes well mate.

good luck

Freebird x

Yes Freebird get the bailiffs off your back first then start to fight back!! it can be done!!

[chrismc]

Yep good luck Chris undoubtably the taxation manager will be pacing the living room at home tonight and asking his wife to check over the statements he has probably already prepared.

 

I also have visions of Philips with their glass on the wall listening to the meeting whilst the other looks thru the keyhole:)

 

I would not trust drinking the coffee..........just in case lol

 

 

he he maybe I should take a flask!! and sleeping bag just in case it drags on and on and on he he

[chrismc]

Just a thought for people wanting to obtain a statement of bailiff fees - instead of asking for a breakdown of charges under the DPA s7 which carries a fee - point out that under the National Standards for Enforcement Agents - the Code (albeit advisory and therefore not legally enforceable, but any bailiff collecting for a local authority or magistrates court should be adhering to them) they are obliged to supply a statement of fees on receipt of a written request for no charge.

Ellie

Ellie

 

They are also supposed to supply a fee note everytime they make a visit or a demand for payment, but Philips have not done this, this is just one more point on my long agenda list that I have printed off to take with me he he

 

Bailiffs tend to take many short cuts to get at the money, but they have got to abide by the rukles and they quite clearly do not do this, but because people do not know their rights they get away with lots of things. Not anymore they won't not with me anyway....these along with many other things is on my list to discuss with Mr LTSM tomorrow!!

 

Chris

[chrismc]

Good luck mate.

Thanks Rambo

 

and thank-you to everyone else for your support...tomorrow is D Day...if the Council don't want to play ball then unless they come up with a really legitimate reason for the charges and the way the Baliffs have acted then I will be firing off a MCOL forthwith to reclaim everything back!! Give them some of their own medicine!

 

Chris

[elsinore]

So far, it seems, they have been trying to swat you away like a pesky mosquito.Tomorrow they will realise that they have no mosquito net and this particular mosquito has a very nasty bite!

 

Good luck tomorrow Chris!

 

Elsinore

[welly]

Yes and make sure it is a BIG bite!! right out of the LA's ****

[chrismc]

he he come on guys......you gotta feel for them!!! afterall they are learning the ropes just like us, unfortunately there is a big mosquito waiting for a nice chunk of flesh on this particular rope he he

 

"Anyone who thinks that they are too small to make a difference has never tried to fall asleep with a mosquito in the room."

and

 

“If you think you are too small to be effective, you have never been in bed with a mosquito.”

[jimmy mumu]

hope this all go's well for you. can't wait to hear how you've got on

[MARTIN3030]

No doubt there will be a site slowdown............as everyone clamours for the news !!

 

 

Give it to em Chris !

 

[chrismc]

Well half an 45mins to go!!! I hope I have some good news to report later today!!

[MARTIN3030]

so do about 500 others !!

 

[chrismc]

Well the meeting took place lasted around 1hr 15 minutes. The LTSM initially was most unsympathetic and stated what they had done and what Philips had done was within all the guidelines and Codes of Practice etc etc.

 

When I pointed out that many other County and Borough Councils have websites with Bailiffs Codes of Practice on them that they are expected to adear to, he admitted that theirs was not very good and was lacking in certain areas.!

 

Anyway the main reason of the meeting was the excessive fees that Philips had charged, by this point we had more or less agreed within a few pounds what they had charged in fees was near enough with what I claimed they had charged me, and he after going through all the individual charges and fees, said well in the Councils view and after having various discussions with Philips they look reasonable! and if I had any more concerns about overcharging etc I should write again to Philips and ask them what they had charged and why they had charged me the amounts.

 

I told him I have no intention of writing again to Philips how many times do they need to be asked for information, why should I waste anymore time with them. We were going round in circles with regards to excessive fees, so I then questioned the Codes of Practice elements that they had broken and asked what he intends to do about those, he stated Philips have their own CoP and I said maybe they do but they don’t stick to them! I gave him numerous examples of breaches of these CoP, again he said these are not for the council to question, I will have to take it up with Philips.

 

So back to the fees again, I stated that Philips say they can charge separate fees for each levy/default/WP etc I say they cannot, he said they are allowed to charge what is reasonable, I agreed but within reason, I then went on to explain to him that even if I am very very generous and give Philips the benefit of the doubt and use his or their calculations way of determining their fees can you explain how they are still way short of what I have been charged! Would you say they want you to think they can charge multiple fees as it adds to their profit margins!!! He said well everyone has to make a profit they are a business afterall! I said businesses do have to make profits, but not by eliciting unlawful additional fees from unsuspecting consumers.

 

A lot of head scratching went on and he basically said it is hard to ascertain from their case notes what is what, but based on a statement of account they had sent the fees did look reasonable. OK so how come they have agreed to repay 2 x van fees if they are reasonable? because this was one element that was not reasonable and they agreed to repay that after the Councils intervention etc etc. I again stated that what they have charged and what they are legally allowed to charge are a fair distance apart, he said well you will have to take that up with Philips we do not work for you, I replied with, yes you do I am a tax payer! To which he backtracked a little and said yes but it is not our responsibility to do this on your behalf when we think the charges/fees are reasonable.

 

Again we went over fees that we both agree are reasonable, but what I don’t agree with is the other elements and the 4 x same fees for same address and same visit etc etc It was obvious this guy was not really interested so I then pulled out my coups de grace and asked him to explain this then! I told him this is the original paperwork that Philips left with me but they do not know I have this, but before you try and explain it can you tell me why when I submit a SAR/DPA this piece of paperwork along with various others are not sent to me, would you say this is Philips being deceitful and deliberately withholding information in the knowledge that if they supply it, it will indeed show their fees to be excessive?? (the paperwork is as I stated right back at the beginning of this thread a list of fees for WP, Levy First Visit etc, way above what they are allowed to charge) This shook him, it was quite obvious this was not what he wanted to see….after a bit of a mumble and a head scratch he said have Philips got a copy of this, I said I don’t know and I don’t care but in effect that, along with all the other points I raise means they are also in breach of the Data Protection Act! and maybe the Information Commissioner should know about this!! I asked him if Philips actually knew what a Subject Access Request was, he said of course they do, but I countered well they do not know how to comply with one then!!

 

All throughout our discussions he kept saying they can charge this and that and for each visit they can charge this amount, that amount etc etc etc etc So, on me showing him these documents he was stumped!! I then asked him, now if Philips provided me with that paperwork on their first visit and it was the only document I had at that stage and I was lucky enough to have had around £2300.00 on me they would have taken that and all the £700+ fees on that first visit wouldn’t they, he had to agree and said I was probably right!

 

So, if they had taken the whole amount on that visit and no one was any the wiser then how can you argue or they argue that the fees are reasonable.? Again he was stumped, and again muttered I will have to write to Philips. I told him I will write to them but it will be in the form of a County Court Summons!! That is the next thing they will receive from me!

 

He then said can we go through the fees and visits once again…..and yet again I explained it does not matter how many times you go through it or whatever method you use of calculating their fees it still does not come to what they have taken from me! He pointed out that a large proportion of the fees were van charges, I agreed and that they had paid 2 of them back and at least one visit that the other two relate too should not have taken place as I was making payments online to Philips at the time and it was not my fault if their system did not allocate the payments in time. He said give me an example, I showed him my bank statement clearly showing a payment made from my bank on 29th December direct into Philips bank account, but it was not allocated to my Philips account until nearly two weeks later, in that time they had actioned another visit which fees were added for! He could not explain this and went off on one about how the Council allocate payments etc etc. He said have you brought this to Philips attention, I told him no I have not, I said why should it be me doing their job for them all the time, I am on my own here, Philips are a large organisation with a lot more resources than me, they have had enough chances to explain themselves etc etc.

 

I then asked him how the Council act if Bailiffs go and visit vulnerable people, women on their own etc etc he told me they have things in place where they would look at the case on its merits, but at the end of the day it is still down to the bailiffs to collect unpaid council tax etc. I then told him about the fact they had clamped my car, they were close to breaching the Consumer Credit Act 1974 because they were trying to remove a car that was on finance not to mention it was a ‘tool of the trade’ which prevented me from working and therefore paying the council their taxes. I also mentioned they had not left fee notes with each visit, they had hand written on pre-printed stationary, they had booked a visit when in effect it was only a phone call and other things along the same lines. But you can see from where I am going excessive fees is only part of it!!

 

There is more but you must be getting bored and lost with this now, however, I left the meeting in the knowledge that the council are not prepared to really get involved in questioning their bailiffs tactics unless something has drastically gone wrong, they tend to believe them over what the general public say every time!!

 

I said do you realise if I escalate this further and make this public or go to the press etc then your Bailiffs would have very little chance of collecting your unpaid Council Taxes for you, it is only matter of making people aware of their rights!!! To which I did not really get an answer, just a shrug. I left saying I will give you 48 hours to question the Bailiffs on all we have discussed failing which I will issue a County Court Claim against them, he said well that is for you to decide you are obviously very knowledgeable on this, but the Council think they have acted reasonably!

 

So it now looks like it is back to the original plan and send them a summons as this is the only thing they will take notice of!

 

More to come when my fingers recuperate he he

[welly]

WOW me eyes have gone funny but sounds like they dont care or he didnt understand it and was probly on the phone to phillips as so as you was out of the door!!

 

Are you going to write to them again or just go for the summons??

[chrismc]

WOW me eyes have gone funny but sounds like they dont care or he didnt understand it and was probly on the phone to phillips as so as you was out of the door!!

 

Are you going to write to them again or just go for the summons??

He may well have called them, as I left him under no illusions this matter was not concluded and what I would do next!

 

I think they do understand now!! but only what they want too! they are after a quiet life and it was obvious during our meeting these people are never confronted with this type of action or confrontation, you could see him squirming!!

 

But whats the point writing back and forth to Philips , I have sent them Letters Before Action, 14 day letters, they have had enough chances to put things right, as I said to the LTSM they will only take notice of a summons so let them explain their charges to a Judge!! The LTSM did not even know what type of court would handle this? can you believe it!! I had to explain that too him also!

 

I think a CC Summons has to be my next course of action.