Am I stupid or just missing the point ???????

[Mal]

waynus,

 

A simple question... If I were to drain lets say £4000 out of your account over 2 years would your budgeting be able to cope with that or could you see it may cause you to 'dip into the red' with your bank because that's the situation that many of us find ourselves in. The more we get charged the harder it is to get back into the black. It's a very simple snowball affect on the people who are least able to pay.

 

plus the thing you obviously don't realise the bank bouncing a £9 DD for a minimum payment on a credit card will most likely cost you £30 from your bank £30 from your credit card Co. plus the £9 you should have paid

 

£9 is now £69 that around 800%

 

how would you like all of your small bills to increase by 800% ?

 

so you saying that £5000 simply does not add up well I say the opposite because I am there the more charges that get added onto your account deeper the bank is putting you into an almost imposable to recover from situation

 

I am glad for you, that you have the kind of money floating about that allows you the ability just give away £5000 and not notice, I unfortunately am not

 

 

Mal

[intersimi]

I think the answer to the question is simple.

 

Yes, you are missing the point.

[Maxie]

Theft requires intent, a willful act as defined in the theft act. This is not the case here. 2, there is implied consent. The banks have terms and conditions - if you borrow money from us that is unauthorised e.g. unauthorised overdraft etc we will charge you. They have accpeted on occation one might go overdrawn, as has previosuly said, this is breach of contract. So we can put the bed the notion that this could EVER be theft.

 

You are saying ignore the law. Banks are levying these charges that the LAW and COURTS have ruled is unlawful. If you had a loan or other arrangement with the banks and you defaulted they would use every asset of the law at their disposal to get back there money; we are just doing the same.

 

All I will say is you continue paying your charges or being a 5* customer and wait for the day you need a bit of understanding or latitude with your bank. Come back and tell us they cut you come slack.

 

The banks only care about making money. I don't have a problem with banks making profit, they give people jobs etc, but they must make that profit in a LAWFUL way, and if tey don't we have the right to redress in the law.

[cheddar]

I think the answer to the question is simple.

 

Yes, you are missing the point.

 

I couldn't agree more, there are some people I have tried explaining this to and they just don't get it....brick wall anyone?

 

As for my bank (Natwest) I would love to know why it costs them £35 to pay a DD that makes me go overdrawn or let me use my card at the weekend (when I can't see how much is in my account due to the massive drag factor of their antiquated clearing system) and charge me £38.......they don't even send me a letter or ring me or even let me know when it is to come out and worst of all sometimes take it out immediately which then spirals another lot of charges and on and on it goes. THAT is what I have a problem with.

[woolfie]

Sadly it is not. It is at START of business - which for banks is 9.00am - yet most branches do not open until 9.30-10am.

 

Actually With regards to balance at beginning and end of day RBOS told me that the funds for any DD SO etc had to be in the account at the end of business the previous working day.

 

I recently transferred £200 to cover some direct debits due to come off on the Monday, I transferred the funds on the Saturday. My account bablance on the Monday reflected this and even with the DD's my balance was in credit. The bank bounced the lot and charged me £228. When I quieried this with the bank they told me that basically they take off the debits in the morning (done automatically) and then add charges, then add credits.

 

Woolfie

[Matty]

Waynus

 

Just because one party to a contract breaches the conditions does not give the other party any scope for acting illegally. The 2nd party only has a right to recover losses or reasonably forseeible losses (and that is all) by law.

 

As it blatantly does not cost anywhere in the region of £30 to administer the letter & increased spending the bank is by definition breaking the law.

 

So in the same way that by breaching the contract they cannot legally have you executed they also cannot charge to penalise - both are illegal according to the law of tort.

 

It has nothing to do with whether or not people have failed to manage their accounts correctly - it is about the banks acting illegally - that is all.

 

I hope this helps.

[idbuchanan]

Waynus - you have totally, utterly missed the point!

 

Here are the points, plainly and simply:

 

- If you haven't got funds (or enough of an overdraft left) for a DD to be paid from your account, then your bank will not pay it. This means that you haven't actually stolen the bank's money.

 

- In such circumstances, the bank will then penalise you by adding a charge to your account. This charge doesn't equal the bank's costs, and is therefore (by definition of common law) a penalty charge.

 

- It's important to note that if you haven't got the funds to pay a direct debit then the bank won't pay it, and won't allow you to go beyond your agreed overdraft or zero (or sometimes a buffer fund). That said, the will allow you to go beyond such limits when they wish to add their charges.

 

- It doesn't matter if you've signed a contract with the bank or not, it is still subject to the law. As you and I are not above the law, nor is the Prime Minister, a Police Officer or the banks.

 

- It doesn't matter if the banks don't call such charges as we are discussing "penalty charges", previous courts have decreed such. As someone from the north of the country may call things you wear on your legs "pants" and someone from the south may call them "trousers", they are still exactly the same thing.

 

And the final, simple, point is:

- Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because someone hadn't got cleared funds to make a direct debit, it doesn't mean that a bank can do whatever they want outside of the law to an account or individual.

[rbrears]

Clearly Waynus you have never been self-employed.

 

Ever had to wait, and wait, and wait while customers/clients sit on your bills and dont pay them for weeks/months, or even worse never pay them because they go bust?

 

Your mortgage, council tax, life insurance, house insurance, utility bill payments (gas, electricity, telephone, mobile phone), car insurance, internet broadband, tv licence, buisiness rates, business waste collection, etc, etc, etc ALL still have to be paid and are usually ALL paid by direct debit. In short EVERYBODY still expects you to pay them on the due date.

 

Then the money comes in late - how many charges? It can be obscene to see how much the banks will sting you for when they can and don't forget when clients pay late you get charged for the non-payment of DDMs on your business AND personal accounts since you pay yourself from your business account.

 

Try setting up a business, work your arse off, pay your taxes, same as everybody else - then get paid late and get slaughtered by your bank. Then your high horse will seem a distant memory.

[Guest stephen]

well put,

 

I think people who moan about people claiming back charges should remember an old saying "never judge a person untill you walked 10miles in there shoes",

[Lusky]

Waynus obviously believes he is right on this.

 

Personally I would not waste time and effort rising to the bait although

we all have very strong feelings on the subject.

 

Perhaps we should just have a poll on the answer to his question lol ?!

[brecken]

I agree with stephen, we havent all been through life yet, dont judge.

[Bookworm]

I think this is now an ancient post, which only raises its ugly head again when someone new comes across it, feels their blood boil (quite rightly so, too, as it is an inflammatory post, and meant to be so, IMO) and maybe now is time to let it rest in peace. Waynus briefly appeared, posted this, disappeared again, and I'm going to close this thread.