Spiritgirl -v- Various DCAs

[spiritgirl59]

Hiya guys

 

Am starting a new thread on this task so as not to get confused.

 

Sent off all CCA requests (11 in total) at the beginning of the month, recorded delivery.

 

Interestingly all hassling phone calls have suddenly stopped this week from one DCA in particular (a bunch of rude and ignorant low lifes who are constantly abusive ... you'll no doubt guess who I mean!) ) so I'm wondering if they have now seen my CCA letter and realise they haven't got a leg to stand on

 

So far only one response out of the 11 with a copy of my actual signed agreement (which is kosher) so the clock is now ticking.

 

Will update as and when I get anything back.

 

Best of luck everyone, I am following many of your threads with interest.

 

Spiritgirl

[dencha]

I have had no phone calls since before easter and only posted CCA requests yesterday and today.

 

I wonder if it has more to do with the end of the financial year or the new OFT charges that now apply to investigations against DCA's.

 

Wonder if the phones have gone quiet for others on this forum too.

 

D

[ICO]

I have had no phone calls since before easter and only posted CCA requests yesterday and today.

 

I wonder if it has more to do with the end of the financial year or the new OFT charges that now apply to investigations against DCA's.

 

Wonder if the phones have gone quiet for others on this forum too.

 

D

 

Same for me, no phones, no letters, think my postman is worried . . . he normally delivers a mountian of identical letters to me. Mass produced by the same DCA !

[KJD]

And me. I used to dread all the letters waiting on my doormat when I got home from work, goodness what the postie must have thought! Now I'm not getting any and have to say am quite disappointed (want them to dig those holes for themselves lol)!! As for the phone, well after plucking up the courage to plug it back in after finding this site, it's remarkably quiet too.

[spiritgirl59]

Hiya guys

 

Well got a second response out of the 11 requests today, but am a bit confused about the paperwork

 

I've read about the difference between "agreement" and "application" on other threads which I've been following as much as I can on here, but I've received one this morning which appears to be both, incorporated into one document, or am I being thick here???

 

The form itself is a copy of the application form my husband made for a credit card with one of our well known banks, however his signature and date (which is definitely his) appears in a little box at the bottom of the page which states "credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974" "sign only if you wish to be legally bound by its terms".

 

So does this actually constitute an "agreement" now, even though it was originally the application as well??

 

Profuse apologies if this is a daft question but I need to know in case I get others like this one.

 

The first response I got the other day is definitely an agreement as its entitled at the top "Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974" however the box for signature and date on that one is exactly the same as on the one received today, which has thrown me a bit.

 

Hope this makes sense, sorry if I'm waffling

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Spiritgirl

[tifo]

apparently these pseudo applications/agreements are what you will get and if they contain prescribed terms such as APR, payment info and interest then they may be acceptable.

 

but i notice a lot of these have the bank reps signature missing (when there is a box for them) so unenforceable.

 

however, any that come without a signature box for the bank is also acceptable as i have read they don't need to supply this.

[dencha]

Need to have the prescribed terms on them or not enforceable is my understanding whether signed or not, plus any other documents mentioned in the agreement.

 

Have seen many on this site with similar boxes signed but no prescribed information on them. A con by the DCA's to make you believe it is a true copy when in fact it is not.

 

An application form I believe is not an agreement, it is in fact only an application form for whatever you are applying for. An agreement you would sign once the application had been accepted.

 

They would have to produce the signed copy in court to enforce the debt. If they have not got it now they probably never will.

[Jeff2000]

Hello all,

 

 

See here for examples of applications being passed off for agreements.

 

You will also notice in these examples the applications were actually declined!

 

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/81626-mbna-link-3-different.html

 

 

 

Jeff.

[spiritgirl59]

Hiya Jeff

 

The link isn't working for me, it just takes me to the home page :-?

 

Do you know the link in full???

 

Spiritgirl x

[Jeff2000]

Hiya Jeff

 

The link isn't working for me, it just takes me to the home page :-?

 

Do you know the link in full???

 

Spiritgirl x

 

 

 

Hello again, Spiritgirl,

 

 

OOOOPS!!!:-? My fault.

 

Sorry about that, try it now, I think I've fixed it!

 

 

Regards, Jeff.

[spiritgirl59]

Hi again Jeff & All

 

Well curiouser and curiouser ...having looked at all the examples you have posted on that thread Jeff, the document I have received from MBNA as a result of my CCA isn't exactly the same as ANY of them !! There are bits and pieces from each of yours which can be found in mine, but I'm still confused now as to whether this could be classed as an official agreement! The nearest to mine is your example No. 2.

 

Having looked at mine carefully its a copy of an application form which you could "fold and stick" and send back to them to APPLY for the card, the back of the copy they sent is a copy of the business reply service address for when its been folded and stuck !! however under the heading on it entitled "The 10 Minute Application Form" it does state "Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974" however the letter which accompanied it stated "please find enclosed a copy of your application as requested"

 

Incidentally that letter came direct from MBNA although I had CCA'd the DCA direct.

 

This is NOT the Link MBNA account, as Link failed to supply anything relating to the other MBNA debt and sent me the letter telling me it would cost a fiver to get it if you recall.

 

This is another MBNA account with a different DCA - Debt Clear Recoveries - who must have sent it on to MBNA for them to respond (or used MBNA letterheaded paper themselves!) . My £1 postal order was also sent back when they sent this so called agreement, so why send the £1 back if its kosher??? as it costs £1 to get the official document, right :idea:

 

I wish I had a scanner so I could show it to you but I don't. :-|

 

By contrast I received yesterday copy agreement from A & L which appears to be perfect, and adheres to all requirements in that it states all information regarding the CCA, details about the loan APR and repayments, details about rights under the CCA etc. Their letter stated "please find enclosed a copy of your credit agreement as requested"

 

So am in a quandry now - I have received back 4 so far, but only ONE the A&L one is a proper agreement if you compare them. The others state "application form" on them but have some info in them about the CCA in them.

 

IMO the only proper agreement I have therefore is the one from A&L but I don't want to chance it and find I'm wrong

 

Sorry to keep going on about this but its bugging me. Why can't they send an AGREEMENT when you ask for it like A&L have, because now I don't know how to treat the others I have received as they are so confusing

 

Any advice?

 

Spiritgirl x

[dencha]

They have sent the £1.00 back because they cannot supply the documents you requested. They are trying to get out of their obligation under the CCA 1974. You could try sending it again and insist they comply with your request under the CCA 1974 otherwise they cannot legally chase you for the debt. If you have recorded everything you have done then you are probably on safe ground.

 

Documents sent back to you must contain all the prescribed information otherwise they are not enforceable

[spiritgirl59]

Hiya Dencha

 

Thanks for your help. Yes everything was sent recorded delivery and I have kept all the receipts etc. I have copies of all my letters and obviously am keeping all the rubbish these DCAs are sending to me now by way of their response to my CCA letters.

 

So up to now the only enforceable debt is that owed to A&L, which is one out of eleven! This will make a huge difference to my financial situation. I intend to stop paying those who have not send me the proper agreement and if they kick off, request them in writing yet again to provide the proper agreement.

 

The rest of them have 3 days in which to provide the agreements or they will have defaulted, the majority of them having not even bothered to get back to me at all with anything.

 

If it wasn't for this site I would still be worrying myself sick about all of this, and I can't thank CAG and all its members enough for the help I've had and the encouragement to see this through.

 

Will keep posting with any developments.

 

Spiritgirl

[Vampyra]

When a form says "Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974" it doesn't MAKE it a true credit agreement. An application form would show this to say that what you are applying for is regulated under that act. Check it very carefully.

[Vampyra]

Oh also if you send the pound again and not state clearly when you sent the original request for CCA - maybe put in a copy of the letter you sent and a copy of their reply - you could start the whole 12 + 2 + 30 process off again.

[dencha]

As I understand the time scales for these CCA requests, after a maximum of 14 working days, which I believe includes time in post they are in default and the debt cannot be enforced except through a court, presuming they can come up with the goods before they commit a criminal offence. I also believe it is not 30 days to a criminal offence, but one calender month. They would not be likely to take you to court once they have commited the offence.

 

I read up on the statute of limitations, but I am up to be corrected if someone knows different.

[spiritgirl59]

:D RESULT :D

 

Guys, another of the 11 have written back to me today stating that "as I am unable to provide you with a copy agreement at the date the card agreement was made and a copy of the current terms of the card agreement, as an exceptional matter and in line with the Consumer Credit Act requirements the current balance of £XXXX has been discharged and is no longer obligatory"

 

 

This was a substantial amount of money too!!! I am so chuffed about this, I can't put into words!

and so .... if these guys can do that, and admit they can't provide a "proper" agreement with the terms they mention, it bodes well for the future doesn't it?, as it still seems up to now that I only have ONE proper agreement out of the 11 requested (that of A&L) in my possession!

 

Vampyra you are right - the others are still "application forms" which mention the Consumer Credit Act - not the same thing at all, right?

 

Just had to share this news with you! I could hardly believe it when I opened the letter this morning!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Spiritgirl x

[purple**princess]

SpiritGirl, that's wonderful news, well done, am waiting for my CCAs from 2 companies, so far I've had one reply saying they've asked the original lender for a copy of documents and then they want me to send a 'sensible proposal' to them. I so hope it's good news as it's stopping me from applying for a mortage with my husband at the moment!

[KJD]

Great news Spiritgirl!

[winny14]

good news spiritgirl, i'm well chuffed for you:D

i'm waiting on 3 cca's and their dead line is friday, dont think any will be able to comply so fingers crossed.

also link have gone very quiet

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

Guys, another of the 11 have written back to me today stating that "as I am unable to provide you with a copy agreement at the date the card agreement was made and a copy of the current terms of the card agreement, as an exceptional matter and in line with the Consumer Credit Act requirements the current balance of £XXXX has been discharged and is no longer obligatory"

 

NatWest credit card perchance:grin:???? Got one of those myself about 10 days ago - exactly the same letter. I have now deleted about £60k of debt with CCA requests and another £15k or so with SAR's so keep up the good work!!!

[spiritgirl59]

NatWest credit card perchance:grin:????

 

...how did you guess?? ...it is RBS, who are part of the NatWest group I believe... so they are rolling these out as standard letters now ! Marvellous stuff - I hope many more of the lovely members on here receive the good news Good luck with yours by the way - if you can get shut of £60k that will be fantastic!

 

Good luck Purple Princess & Winny - still watching your threads with great interest and keeping everything crossed for you both x

 

Spiritgirl

[kennyparkroad]

congrats

 

seems like people are starting to get somewhere! ive just had 2k written off with a catalogue debt!

 

but if you need any other help with anything, come back to us, we're all here!

 

Kenny

[spiritgirl59]

Hiya Kenny

 

Well done you!

 

I've a feeling some of mine may not go down without a fight, even if they cannot provide the proper agreements, as there are some very dodgy DCAs dealing with my stuff, so will keep posting to let you all know what's going on.

 

I don't intend to pay any of them now only A&L who have complied, so no doubt the poop will hit the fan with some of the more awkward ones when they stop receiving my £1 and I'll be getting letters telling me I have defaulted on my "agreement".

 

If they start sending threats and demands I can then take Vampyra's advice and re-send my CCA request AGAIN with a copy of their crappy responses and the £1 postal order they sent back, or in the case of no response at all, remind them that they signed for my recorded delivery request and have defaulted on it - so they can bog off!

 

It makes me feel so much stronger just being in control of things now and knowing what my rights are. Gone are the days of being intimidated by these bar stewards thanks to CAG

[kennyparkroad]

here here lol