Hippo v Barclays

[Micky the Hippo]

7, refers to RBS who run NatWest, don't they? so presumably that wants a bit of tweaking for Barclays

 

I know some of the claims regarding CI about mutuality and the like are a bit contentious but I think it's good to throw it all in, kind of an argument in variance, if it actually goes to court it's more stuff to groan on about and if it doesn't, as it hopefully won't, it shows you're keen

 

If it's N1 with all those words then I'll have to take them in by hand at the weekend I presume

[dar£n]

Hi mate,

yeh seems fine,

however the CI rate of 29.5% looks a little high, but hey, I havent looked into CI for quite a while now so you may wel be right,.

 

Personally, I think you will do okay from here.

[Micky the Hippo]

Thank-you, I've haven't dressed it yet with my info but the unauthorised rate for Barclays is certainly in the high twenties, Natwest even higher

 

goody, off they go later this week

 

keep an eye out for squeals of nervy worry as happy day approaches

 

[african_igbo]

Hi I am currently preparing my N1 for serving on 31st of May and your N1 seemed quite deep to other examples I have seen and where going to use and cannibalize.

But I don't want to make it confusing So please advise.

[Micky the Hippo]

hey fella, I nicked it verbatim from someone else a while ago, that's because I'm claiming CI and want to make my claim a bit more punchy to hopefully keep them on the back foot

 

I think the simpler template version is absolutely fine if you're claiming charges plus the 8% interest

 

If you are claiming CI then you might want to use that in part or in whole, your call

 

My first time doing this so I'm no expert at all

[african_igbo]

Hi again I have read and digest your points and except for part 7 I can and will possible use

your blurb thx.

[Micky the Hippo]

again, not my work, I lifted it entirely from another thread a month or so ago

 

and the reasons I'm using it is because I'm after contractual interest so wanted the paragraphs addressing that.

[Micky the Hippo]

some slight tweaks and prods but now it's final as of today and will go out in the next couple of days, feels good, made an effort to bolster the CI angle

 

any feedback gratefully recieved

 

hippo out

 

..................

 

1. The Claimant has a bank account, number xxx (“the Account”), maintained at the Defendant’s xxx Branch (xxx)

 

2. The Account is governed by the Defendant’s Personal Banking Terms and Conditions (“the contract”)

 

3. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant has debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged overdraft interest on the charges once applied.

 

4. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

5. A schedule of the charges is attached to these particulars of claim (Appendix 1).

 

6. The Claimant will rely on the Competition Commission’s report entitled “Northern Irish Personal Banking,” published on 20th October, 2006, as evidence that the Defendant is aware that the income derived from its default charges is calculated to generate material profits and is not merely a means of recouping losses incurred in relation to Account defaults.

7. The Claimant will further rely on the Office of Fair Trading’s (“the OFT”) statement of 5th April 2006 concerning default charges in credit card contracts, as the OFT’s recommendations regarding standard default terms in credit card contracts have wider implications, as regards bank current Account agreements.

 

8. The Claimant thus contends that:

a) The charges debited to the Account:

i) are punitive in nature;

ii) are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant;

iii) exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract

on the part of the Claimant;

iv) are not intended to represent or relate to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) Further to 8.a), the charges debited to the Account are penalties rather than liquidated damages. A charge is held to be a penalty if the sum stipulated for is extravagant and unconscionable in amount in comparison to the greatest loss that could conceivably be proved to have followed from the breach. A penalty clause is void in its entirety and unenforceable.

 

c) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

 

d) In the alternative to 8.a), b) and c), if the Court finds that the charges are not a penalty, then the Claimant contends that they are unreasonable within the meaning of s.15 Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

e) The Defendant has concealed, and continues to conceal that the charges debited are unlawful. If this is not the case, and the Defendant truly believes that these charges are lawful, then the Claimant contends that the Defendant is mistaken. As the Claimant only became aware during August 2006 that the charges debited were unlawful, then section 32(1)(b), or section 32(1)©, of the Limitation Act 1980 should apply, and the charges debited are therefore within the primary limitation period.

 

 

9. Contractual Interest

a) The Claimant claims compound interest on the amounts claimed under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in the contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, using the rate and method specified in the said contract, and as is applied by the Defendant to monies it is owed.

 

b) The Claimant’s grounds for seeking restitution of the compounded contractual rate of interest is that the Defendant would be unjustly enriched if the Claimant's entitlement was limited to the statutory rate of interest in that the Defendant has had use of the sums and would have used these sums to re-lend at commercial compounded rates.

 

c) The Claimant contends that the taking of unlawful penalties from the Claimant’s Account is unauthorised borrowing by the Defendant. Therefore, under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in the contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, in the first instance the Claimant has calculated compound interest originally charged by the defendant, being 27.5%.

 

d) In the alternative to 9.c), should the taking of unlawful penalties from the Claimant’s Account not be deemed to be unauthorised borrowing by the Defendant, then, under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in the contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, the Claimant has calculated compound interest at the Defendant’s authorised borrowing rate, being 15.9%.

 

e) In the alternative to 9.c) and d), if the Court decides that the Claimant is not entitled to the contractual rate of interest under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in the contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, then the Claimant has calculated interest under section 69 County Courts Act (1984) at the rate of 8% a year

 

f) Details of interest calculated & rates used are attached to these Particulars of Claim (Appendix 1) as follows:

Column1 – Compound interest calculated daily at an annual rate of 27.5%

Column 2 – Compound interest calculated daily at an annual rate of 15.9%

Column 3 – Simple interest under s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at an annual rate of 8.00%

 

10. Accordingly, the Claimant claims:

a) The return of the amounts debited between 22/12/00 and 30/05/07 in respect of charges and the interest charged as a result of those charges in the sum of £1,000ish

 

b) All applicable Court fees

 

c) Contractual interest at an annual 27.50 % compounded daily from the date of each transaction to 30/05/07 of £2,000ish, and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £1.04

 

d) In the alternative to 10.c), Contractual interest at an annual rate of 15.9% compounded daily from the date of each transaction to 30/05/07 of £1,000ish and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.63

 

e) In the alternative to 10.c) and d), interest under section 69 County Courts Act (1984) at the rate of 8% a year, from the date of each transaction to 30/05/07 of £300ish, and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.34

[Micky the Hippo]

I'm taking that deathly silence as the thumbs up

 

A couple of tweaks, a dapper legalese covering letter from the wife, double triplicate SOCs (two accounts each with three separate sheets for the three rates of interest) a two page POC plus the N1 form itself, plus cheque

 

oof, eight signatures (N1, POC, covering letter, cheque) addressed, sealed and reg post tomorrow, along with one for NatWest, I resisted the temptation to stick them both in the same envelope

 

oof, onwards with the Smile/Co-op cases plus three for my sister

[Micky the Hippo]

oh, and a letter arrived today, quite a plump one, for a moment I thought it might be something

 

yet another 'sorry to hear ... 28 days to get back to you ...' and a 'how to complain leaflet

 

I'm two weeks past when I should have sent off the N1 ffs and they want another 28 days, I think they've utterly lost track of the time scales on my claim after my earlier revised claim, ah well, the clock's well and truly ticking now, finally

[moggieb]

Micky,hi

Sometimes think Barclays are replying to a totally different letter from the one I sent!!! They never stick to timescales (ours or their own) and any letter you send to a specific address gets a reply from somewhere else!! Think your post #18 sounds really knowledgable tho I'm not claiming CI. Good luck with all of your claims-you sound very busy.

[saintly_1]

I have a theory that Barclays work to a different timescale than us mere mortals ...... im sure that their days have more than 24 hours so 1 of their days = 1.5 of our days. Could explain how they never seem to keep to our timescale lol

[Micky the Hippo]

indeed, I was sorting through my letters yesterday trying to make sense of the last one

 

I've now made two LBAs, the first for plain charges which got an offer of £1,080, the second, replacing the first, with CI which got an offer of £1,020

 

So quite why I'm getting letters with 'we'll look into it' heaven only knows

 

I do sound knowledgeable don't I?

 

Once I've knocked out some fresh SARs tonight it's time to actually read the things I'm quoting and referring to I think

 

[groovycaz]

Hey Micky

pinching the wording from your letters at posts 10 and 18 thank you..

great threads and best of luck...Never had any dealings with this bank myself but can see your going for the kill, I'l follow your progress and congratulate you when you get your cash back....Thanks for the advice..GC;)

[Micky the Hippo]

quite the postbag today

 

court thingy served on the 13th

 

my second SAR specifically asking for pre six years and pointing out that I'd already received the last six years has been responded to with two fat envelopes of

 

yep, you've guessed it ...

 

the last six year's statements

 

[Micky the Hippo]

called CS on 0845 7 555 555 and eventually spoke to a friendly woman who freely admitted they held 12 years, confirmed the account was opened in 97 and promised the account to then would be in the post tonight

 

no arguments at all

 

I'll let y'all know if they arrive!

[saintly_1]

what odds do i get on you receiving the last 6 years statements ?

[Micky the Hippo]

shut your mouth, she was very helpful and understood exactly what I was asking for, she actioned it herself, they're going into the post tonight

 

 

defo getting the old ones

 

defo

 

no doubt at all

 

I don't want three sets of Barclays statements for the last six years

[saintly_1]

awe im sure you really want to aquire as many copies as Daren has .... at last count i think he has 7 sets of the last 6 years statements (how many rain forests have B's wiped out on just Darens statements alone ) lol

[Micky the Hippo]

he doesn't really have seven does he?

 

Are you suggesting they do it on purpose?

 

If I get the new ones, that woman was lying to me

[saintly_1]

Would B's do that ?

[Micky the Hippo]

no sign of the statements (although my third set of NW arrived, I have no idea which S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) they've responded to)

 

they acknowledged my summons as of the 21st

 

they are naturally defending the claim in full

[dar£n]

Micky, yep Saintly is right, I think Ive got 7 packs now, ive lost track, theyre all over the place LOL,,, AND they STILL havent complied with my SAR, they keep sending out the std 6yr bundle...I want the lot.

[Micky the Hippo]

the woman I spoke too was so helpful, she confirmed the date my account was opened, confirmed they had the statements, confirmed they would go into the post that night

 

frankly I'm staggered, although in fairness nothing has arrived, which is bteer than getting a duplicate set of new ones I suppose

 

maybe

[saintly_1]

Im still going with you receiving another set of the last 6 yrs statements ;-)