Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • It's Hotpoint (but I believe they're part of the Whirlpool group now?). The part was bought direct from them as a consumer.
    • Thanks BankFodder for your latest, I'm in complete agreement on the subject of mediation and will be choosing to decline mediation, the longer timeline is not an issue for me, I will happily let the going to court run it's course. I really appreciate the support from the Consumer Action Group. I'll post the email text I'm sending to Evri's small claims in answer to their recent defence response. Regards, J    email text I'm sending to Evri's small claims in answer to their recent defence response:  
    • Sec127 (3) repealed, now gone. S. 127(3)-(5) repealed (6.4.2007) by Consumer Credit Act 2006 (c. 14), ss. {15}, 70, 71(2), {Sch. 4} (with Sch. 3 para. 11); S.I. 2007/123, art. 3(2), Sch. 2
    • We used to recommend that people accept mediation but our advice has changed. The mediation process is unclear. Before you can embark on it you have to agree that you are prepared to enter a compromise – and that means that you agree that you are prepared to give up some of your rights even though you are completely in the right and you are entitled to hundred percent of your money and even though EVRi are simply trying to obstruct you in order to discourage you and also to put others who might want to follow your example off from claiming and even though they have a legitimate basis for reimbursement. Mediation is not transparent. In addition to having to sign up that you are prepared to give up some of your rights, you will also have to agree not to reveal any details of the mediation – including the result of the mediation – so that the whole thing is kept secret. This is not open justice. Mediation has nothing to do with justice. The only way of getting justice is to make sure that this matter goes to trial unless EVRi or the other parcel delivery companies put their hands up and accept the responsibility even if they do it is a gesture of goodwill. Going to trial and winning at trial produces a judgement which we can then add to our small collection to assist other people who are in a similar boat. EVRi had been leading you around by the nose since at least January – and probably last year as well – and their whole purpose is simply to drag it out, to place obstacles in your way, to deter other people, and to make you wish that you'd never started the process and that you are prepared to give up your 300 quid. You shouldn't stand for it. You should take control. EVRi would prefer that you went to mediation and if nothing else that is one excellent reason why you should decline mediation and go to court. If it's good for them it's bad for you. On mediation form, you should sign that you are not prepared to compromise and that you are not prepared to keep the result secret but that you want to share the results with other people in similar circumstances. This means that the mediation won't go ahead. It will take slightly longer and you will have to pay a court fee but you will get that back when you win and you will have much greater satisfaction. Also, once you go the whole process, you will learn even more about bringing a small claim in the County Court so that if this kind of thing happens again you will know what to do and you will go ahead without any hesitation. Finally, if you call EVRi's bluff and refuse mediation and go to trial, there is a chance – maybe not a big chance – but there is a chance that they will agree to pay out your claim before trial simply in order to avoid a judgement. Another judgement against them will simply hurt the position even more and they really don't want this. 300 quid plus your costs is peanuts to them. They don't care about it. They will set it off against tax so the taxpayer will make their contribution. It's all about maintaining their business model of not being liable for anything, and limiting or excluding liability contrary to section 57 and section 72 of the consumer rights act.     And incidentally, there is a myth that if you refuse mediation that somehow it will go against you and the judge will take a dim view and be critical of you. This is precisely a myth. It's not true. It would be highly improper if any judge decided the case against you on anything other than the facts and the law of the case. So don't worry about that. The downside of declining mediation is that your case will take slightly longer. The upside is that if you win you will get all your money and you will have a judgement in your favour which will help others. The chances of you winning in this case are better than 95% and of course you would then receive 100% of your claim plus costs
    • Nice to hear a positive story about a company on this form for a change. Thank you
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
        • Thanks
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 160 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Hippo v Barclays


Micky the Hippo
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5078 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

hello

 

I'm at the N1/MCOL stage with NW now and the LBA stage with Barclays

 

My claims until now have been for charges alone, in my haste (yes, I know, bad man) I confused the interest claimable on the charges with the 8% not to be added until the court stage

 

I now realise that I could safely have claimed the authorised interest rate on my my charges (I think)

 

Is it too late to add authorised interest to my claim(s) now? Do I have to stick to charges only claim?

 

Thanks for your advice

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 144
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

you will have to write to them giving them a chance to pay it before you claim it through court. Dont have to start again from scratch, just make sure you point it out in the LBAs.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank-you

 

On reading the step by steps on this site I realise that they say don't claim such interest, so perhaps not so bad after all

 

I've LBAes both banks now anyway, plain charges alone, and I also read tonight that if I claim authorised interest then I can't claim the court 8% so the difference isn't so great

 

I think I'll stick to the plain and simple court 8% this time around

 

Am I right to think that once I've issued the MCOL thing, they're bound to pay the the 8% interest, even if they settle before court?

 

Thanks again and a general thank to the site owners, superb resource

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want to confuse the situation for you, you might be happy with just the charges back, but there are several different types of interest referred to on this site.

 

overdraft interest - you can claim back whatever overdraft interest you have been charged due to the charges. You will need to use the complex (advanced) spreadsheet to work out what you can claim back. It isn't complex as the name suggests but you might not think its worth the work if you haven't paid much overdraft interest. This must be claimed pre-court stage and is not related at all to contractual or statutory interest which is added to the claim.

 

contractual interest - claimed at the rate charged by the bank and is compounded - I wont go into all the ins and outs, its a BIG topic and there are some long old threads dedicated to the subject if you are interested in claiming this. Some people claim the unauthorised rate and others the authorised rate. It is an alternative to being awarded statutory 8% interest, and you must also claim it pre-court stage. Usually people write in their court claim that they are claiming contractual interest but if the court doesn't award it they wish to claim statutory interest in the alternative.

 

statutory interest - 8% simple interest - this is claimed only at the court stage and although it isnt exactly guaranteed (it is a discretionary award) I've never seen a case where it hasnt been paid.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have waded through the big thread, honest

 

If I've already LBAed both claims is it too late now or can I claim interest other than the 8% at the MCOL/N1 stage, without mentioning it previously to the banks

 

I've still not grasped the overdraft interest thing. Is it basically the interest rate for my overdraft on whatever charges they charged me?

 

And the 8% is on top of and separate to that?

 

Thanks for your efforts, I always seem to read this site at the end of long days when I'm knackered, so sorry if I seem a bit dense

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have waded through the big thread, honest

Are you ready for a test then? only joking:)

 

If I've already LBAed both claims is it too late now or can I claim interest other than the 8% at the MCOL/N1 stage, without mentioning it previously to the banks

 

no, you have to write and give them a chance to pay before you make a court claim

 

 

I've still not grasped the overdraft interest thing. Is it basically the interest rate for my overdraft on whatever charges they charged me?

 

the spreadsheet will do the calculations for you. you put in the charges, the overdraft interest you've been charged and your account balance at that date and it works out what proportion of the o/d interest you can reclaim.

 

And the 8% is on top of and separate to that?

 

yes

 

 

hope that helps

Link to post
Share on other sites

it does help, thank-you

 

so if I work it out and want to claim it it, I'd have to start all over at the demand letter stage? stopping the the LBA/N1 process I'm at?

I suspect the answer to that last question will see me satisfied and ready to go, thank-you for your patience

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank-you

 

So no need to send the initial demand again?

 

Send new LBA's with a quick sentence to say that it replaces any previous LBAs?

 

Brill, going to tackle the Complex sheet tonight, I suspect the interest will be significant and all the better if the 8% is on top

 

I think I understand the various arguments regarding rates of interest, the 16.9% on charges is solid isn't it? The others gradually more debatable?

 

Thanks again, I suppose I should start a whoever v whoever thread about now before things start getting more fiddly, I have to say as things progress it all seems straightforward enough

 

I had a reply from Barclays asking for four weeks to look at it and eight weeks to reply, I plain and simple ignore that don't I?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank-you

 

So no need to send the initial demand again?

 

no, just LBAs, but make it clear that you are revising your previous claim, say something like this includes overdraft interest caused by the charges which I had omitted to include in my last letter.

 

Send new LBA's with a quick sentence to say that it replaces any previous LBAs?

 

yes, see above

 

Brill, going to tackle the Complex sheet tonight, I suspect the interest will be significant and all the better if the 8% is on top

 

I think I understand the various arguments regarding rates of interest, the 16.9% on charges is solid isn't it? The others gradually more debatable?

 

now, have you decided to claim contractual interest then? It doesn't sound like it if you're still referring to claiming 8% on top.

If you do mean contractual, I suggest you take your time to do LOTS of reading of other threads. I mean at least a weekend, if not several, before you make a decision. Honestly, you need to understand your arguments for claiming it and there are a few interpretations which I can't summarise for you. this is because if it came to court it would be you responsible for your claim and not because someone told you it could be claimed. I'm not sure where you get 16.9% from, or what you mean by solid?

 

Thanks again, I suppose I should start a whoever v whoever thread about now before things start getting more fiddly, I have to say as things progress it all seems straightforward enough

 

Yes, start a thread in your bank's forum and make sure you understand your claim fully and most importantly get the figures right before you make your claim at court. It is not easy to change your claim once it has been issued and could put you at a disadvantage if the bank discovers that you haven't done your homework on what you're claiming. especially if CI is involved.

 

I had a reply from Barclays asking for four weeks to look at it and eight weeks to reply, I plain and simple ignore that don't I?

 

you are issuing the timetable, not them, but don't rush, take your time to get it right.

 

:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks again

 

I.m thinking that a claim for the interest the bank charged on my arranged overdraft of 16.9% (in NatWest's case, I think) was a straightforward matter to claim as it's clearly added to the charges taken from my account

 

ie a £100 they took from my account in a given month is always missing thereafter and therefore the overdraft interest rate charged on that missing £100 is easy to show and easy to claim

 

or am I getting that wrong? the more advanced and complex arguments regarding Unarranged Borrowing Interest rates and compound interest looked like the trickier more aggressive ones to me

 

Hear what you say on preparation and care but I'm sure my claims are by the book so far, following the step by steps on this site, plain charges and now the court's 8% interest, it's now that I've realise that there's some additional charges/interest that seems fairly easy to claim back

 

Thanks again, your time is greatly appreciated

Link to post
Share on other sites

ok, then you're talking about claiming back the overdraft interest they've debited (relating to the charges only) and not contractual interest (CI). In that case, you don't need to worry about what rate they applied, all you need to know is the amount they took and as I said earlier, the complex spreadsheet works out the bit that you can reclaim.

Link to post
Share on other sites

excellent

 

thank-you once again, you're a saint, your caution about claiming CI tallies with my assessment based on the big thread

 

I'll kick off my 'me v them' threads shortly

 

and I double promise to kick back some of my winnings to the site

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hello everyone, top forum

 

I've sent the demand for payment to Barclays, charges only totalling about £1,400

 

got a letter about looking into it etc etc, whatever

 

then I went on holiday instead of doing the LBA

 

then I decided to claim the interest using the 'complex spreadsheet', that means a new letter demanding payment, no probs there

 

now I'm dithering on claiming contractual interest, either authorised or unauthorised, it adds a lot of money and I do understand the crux of the principle and I do feel it's owed

 

what's making me dither is how much extra hassle it'll be, will it involve a lot more paperwork and a more protracted and stiff opposition to the claim? Will I have to cobble together more legalese arguments? I'm very much liking the templates and the cut and paste style stuff so far and I don't want to do any extra work quite frankly, I just don't have the time

 

is it basically a matter of following the correct procedure all the way to the court date and calling their bluff, even with contractual interest, my claim will always be less than £2,500. Or is adding contractual interest more likely to get me into an actual court?

 

thanks

ps. how in the name of the baby do some of you people get claims into the £5k+? I thought I was sloppy and careless!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hippo is much heartened by other's threads of claiming contractual interest

 

I've recalculated my claims using vampiress (bless her) 's complex sheet with contractual interest at 27.5%

 

Crikey it bumps it up

 

But it's exactly what they'd have done to me in the same circumstances, and some

 

All off in the post later this week as a new Prelim letter

Link to post
Share on other sites

yikes

 

just seen the mighty mindzai's sheet using compound interest, getting silly now

 

oof!

 

charges and interest at compound interest at the unauthorised rate it is!

 

now to rework the Natwest figures

 

christ this all feels good

Link to post
Share on other sites

All done and sent off as a new Prelim letter, stopping the first claim

 

Total now up to £3.5K with compound CI

 

I've also sent a new SAR asking for the six years of statements prior to the last six years

 

all stickered with the very smart and impressive CAG stickers

Link to post
Share on other sites

offer today relating to my initial claim, presumably crossing with my revised claim by a few days

 

it's for £1080, 80% of my initial claim for charges only, not too bad considering it was post LBA but pre anything else

 

anyhow, the standard letter of rejection I suppose with a bit stuck on referring them to my second revised claim sent earlier

 

nice to be seeing four figure offers, I'd probably have grabbed that a few weeks ago before reading all the good stuff on here, knowledge is power fo sure

 

doing that now and upgrading my filing from a pile of paper to a real grown up lever arch file :cool:

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

LBA sent out last Friday 27th

 

Today a letter in reply to my Prelim letter offering me £1,020 to settle my £3.5k claim

 

Bit bloody poor considering they offered me £1,080 against my initial claim for £1,350

 

Ah well, at least there's a dialogue and things are progressing :rolleyes:

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

ooookay, Hippo's back and on the case

 

mcol/N1 was due over a week ago but the end of the football season and general lack of cash and dithering means I'm only ready to start now

 

I've something I filed away a while ago that I'm going to use on an N1, as below, everyone happy with it? It's yet to be filled in with numbers and interest rates and dates and so on, any good bits to chuck in gratefully received, and howls of 'for god's sake don't use that' gratefully received

 

this'll be going to Barclays and Natwest at more or less the same time, my other claims are still festering at the SAR stage

 

thanks all

.....................

 

1. The Claimant has a bank account, number ******** (“the Account”), maintained at the Defendant’s Dunstable Branch (sort code )

 

2. The Account is governed by the Defendant’s Personal Banking Terms and Conditions (“the contract”)

 

3. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant has debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged overdraft interest on the charges once applied.

 

4. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

5. A schedule of the charges is attached to these particulars of claim (Appendix 1).

 

6. The Claimant will rely on the Competition Commission’s report entitled “Northern Irish Personal Banking,” published on 20th October, 2006, as evidence that the Defendant is aware that the income derived from its default charges is calculated to generate material profits and is not merely a means of recouping losses incurred in relation to Account defaults. The defendant is fully aware of this report as Ulster Bank is a subsidiary to RBS (defendant).

 

7. The Claimant will further rely on the Office of Fair Trading’s (“the OFT”) statement of 5th April 2006 concerning default charges in credit card contracts, as the OFT’s recommendations regarding standard default terms in credit card contracts have wider implications, as regards bank current Account agreements.

 

8. The Claimant thus contends that:

a) The charges debited to the Account:

i) are punitive in nature;

ii) are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant;

iii) exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract

on the part of the Claimant;

iv) are not intended to represent or relate to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) Further to 8.a), the charges debited to the Account are penalties rather than liquidated damages. A charge is held to be a penalty if the sum stipulated for is extravagant and unconscionable in amount in comparison to the greatest loss that could conceivably be proved to have followed from the breach. A penalty clause is void in its entirety and unenforceable.

 

c) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

 

d) In the alternative to 8.a), b) and c), if the Court finds that the charges are not a penalty, then the Claimant contends that they are unreasonable within the meaning of s.15 Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

 

 

9. Contractual Interest

a) The Claimant claims compound interest on the amounts claimed under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in the contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, using the rate and method specified in the said contract, and as is applied by the Defendant to monies it is owed.

 

b) The Claimant’s grounds for seeking restitution of the compounded contractual rate of interest is that the Defendant would be unjustly enriched if the Claimant's entitlement was limited to the statutory rate of interest in that the Defendant has had use of the sums and would have used these sums to re-lend at commercial compounded rates.

 

c) The Claimant contends that the taking of unlawful penalties from the Claimant’s Account is unauthorised borrowing by the Defendant. Therefore, under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in the contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, in the first instance the Claimant has calculated compound interest originally charged by the defendant, being 29.50%.

 

d) In the alternative to 9.c), should the taking of unlawful penalties from the Claimant’s Account not be deemed to be unauthorised borrowing by the Defendant, then, under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in the contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, the Claimant has calculated compound interest at the Defendant’s authorised borrowing rate, being 16.99%.

 

e) In the alternative to 9.c) and d), if the Court decides that the Claimant is not entitled to the contractual rate of interest under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in the contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, then the Claimant has calculated interest under section 69 County Courts Act (1984) at the rate of 8% a year

 

f) Details of interest calculated & rates used are attached to these Particulars of Claim (Appendix 1) as follows:

Column1 – Compound interest calculated daily at an annual rate of 29.50%

Column 2 – Compound interest calculated daily at an annual rate of 16.99%

Column 3 – Simple interest under s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at an annual rate

of 8.00%

 

10. Accordingly, the Claimant claims:

a) The return of the amounts debited between 12/12/200 and 13/10/06 in respect of charges in the sum of £xxxx.

 

b) All applicable Court fees

 

c) Contractual interest at an annual 29.50 % compounded daily from the date of each transaction to 21st January 2007 of £xxxx, and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £xxxx

 

d) In the alternative to 10.c), Contractual interest at an annual rate of 16.99% compounded daily from the date of each transaction to 21st January 2007 of £xxxx and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £xxxx

 

e) In the alternative to 10.c) and d), interest under section 69 County Courts Act (1984) at the rate of 8% a year, from the date of each transaction to 21st January 2007, and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £xxxx

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...