Counterclaim - can anyone help?

[platillos]

I've been sent a Counterclaim from the court regarding reclaiming my bank charges and don't know if i've messed up or what to do next?

 

can anyone help?

[kashie]

Why, what does it say?

[platillos]

It will take a while to type into the post... can you hang on 5

[kashie]

ok

[CAZKATJOE]

all waiting with baited breath to see what they say

[platillos]

Check this out:

 

• The particulars of claim do not provide details or particulars of the account in questions and/or the precise charges alleged to have been unlawful, or the date thereof. Furthermore, they give no recognizable cause of action, nor is there sufficient material to enable Barclays to serve more than a bare denial of liability as a Defence. The statement of case would appear to be an abuse of process and/or will obstruct the just disposal of the proceedings and it does not appear to comply with CPR r16.2
• The defendant respectfully requests an order that the claim be struck out pursuant to CPR r3.4 as it does not disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim and is an abuse of the courts process.
• The particulars of claim do not provide details or particulars of the account in question and/or the precise charges alleged to have been unlawful, or the date thereof. To the extent it is alleged that the claimant incurred bank charges on his account for unauthorized borrowings (whether unpaid fees for returned cheques, ‘paid referral fees’ or any other such fees), the defendant puts the claimant to strict proof of each charge and the date thereof.
• The particulars of claim are summary in nature. Accordingly, this defense is summary in nature and the defendant reserves the right to amend this statement of case in due course.
• The defendant is entitled to charge the claimant for unauthorized borrowing by reason of its standard terms and conditions. The claimant accepted the same when the account was opened, including (in particular but without limitations) the following terms and conditions (which are summarized):

• The defendant’s right to charge a ‘paid referral fee’ where the defendant pays an amount (either by compulsion or election) which causes the account to become overdrawn - £30 per item (previously £25).
• The defendant’s right to charge an administrative fee if any cheque, standing order or direct debit cannot be paid because of insufficient cleared funds in the account £35 per item (previously £30).
• The defendant’s entitlement, if the claimant becomes overdrawn without an overdraft limit, to charge interest at the unauthorized borrowing rate on the excess balance.

 

• The defendant’s standard terms and conditions give the claimant a fair and transparent view of those terms and charges applicable for unauthorized borrowings (including where the account is overdrawn without an overdraft limit or where the claimant exceeds his authorized overdraft limit).
• If and to the extent it is the claimant’s case that the failure to make necessary payments and/ or failure to remain within authorized overdraft limits and/or failure to arrange an authorized overdraft constituted a breach of the terms applying to the account and that the contractual entitlement to debit charges from the claimant’s account constitutes a liquidated damages clause, the same is denied. The charges constitute payments the claimant agreed to make by reason of the terms and conditions of his account and were consideration for the defendant advancing credit to the claimant, which the defendant was under no obligation to advance. The defendant was entitled to impose such charges and interest when the claimant incurred the overdraft.
• Accordingly, it is denied that the legal principles relating to liquidated damages clauses and penalty charges are relevant or applicable to the facts set out above. Further or alternatively it is denied that any such charges constitute unlawful penalty charges or are in breach of the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations 1999.
• Therefore, it is denied that the charges were unlawfully debited from the account.
• If and to the extent the claimant incurred charges on his account, this was caused by the claimant having gone into overdraft without having agreed with the defendant an authorized overdraft facility or to increase the overdraft facility and/or his failure to make payments to bring the balance of the account back into credit.
• It is averred that the said charges and interest are and remain lawful and enforceable and that the defendant was entitled to debit the same.
• The defendant denies that it is liable to the claimant for the sums claimed and interests, as please or at all. In the alternative if (which is denied) the said charges are unenforceable and constituted a breach of contract by the defendant, those charges which were applied to the account prior to 28th Feb 2001 are not recoverable because they are time-barred under the terms of the limitation act 1980 in that more than 6 years have elapsed since the accrual of the cause of action.
• In the alternative, and without prejudice to matters stated above, if (which is denied) the said charges and interest or any part thereof are unlawful or unenforceable as alleged by the claimant or at all, and the charges were a consequence of the breach of contract by the claimant, the defendant has nonetheless suffered loss and damage as a consequence of such breach of contract in allowing the account to go into unauthorized overdraft. Accordingly, in the event that defendant is unable to rely on its express entitlement to enforce the charges as set out above, it will seek to recover to the extent necessary such loss and damage as it actually suffered, which will not necessarily be limited to the value of the said charges, and the defendant seeks to set off such sums against any liability owed

Barclays Bank PLC

 

Any ideas?

 

Any one have any ideas... or anyone that can help?

 

c

[LadyMaria]

Hi, my court case is this Friday and Barclays have today agreed to pay up, my cheques should be with me by tomorrow lunch, (if not I am going to court). However I have re-read the defence they put on thier reply to my claim and it is very similar to yours, rightly or wrongly I ignored it and just kept going with my claim and finally I have arrived at the winning post, they emailed me my letter today which I signed and faxed back. I think this may be a standard defence and is mainly legaleese jargon, don't worry keep going as basically they have no real defence, they have been acting unlawfuly and they know it.

good luck.

[oneofakind]

Hi,

This seems to be the bog-standard defence, as received by many peopple at this stage.

If you've conducted your claim as per the CAG instructions, and sent in the right details (schedule of claim) then I don't think you have anything to worry about. Search for 'barclays defence' on this forum.... I'm sure you'll come across something very similar!

[platillos]

Thanks one of a kind.. . I have a few questions:

 

When I sent the 1st letter before action I hadn't put together a schedule of charges so I requested the statements again and completed this information. When I did this, the claim was for a different amount (approx £120) than previously requested. I had already been offered 1/2 of the money from barclays and I sent this new schedule of charges along with with MCOL file to barclays.

 

It seems in the legal jargon, that they are saying I haven't even asked for the money back - is this because of the change of amount?

 

What do I do next, they have changed the court to Sheffield, so does this mean I have to pay again (court fee)?

 

Do I now have to submit all my information?

 

Hope you can help,I really don't know what to do.

 

P

[oneofakind]

Hi,

 

The amount you put in your MCOL file is your actual claim. If the bank have been sent a copy of the schedule of charges (they have, yes?) then that's fine.

 

No, you won't have to pay more Court charges.

 

You should hear from the Court in due course, advising you what to do next.

 

when exactly did you first tell the bank the amount you wanted to claim?

and how did you manage this without statements?

 

D.8-)

[platillos]

I had statements in the first instance, but didn't complete a spreadsheet I just noted the amounts. So I asked for the statements again in Feb 07

 

13th October sent Bank Charges letter

18th October recieved reply saying sorry your not happy....

8th Nov - they offered me £900 towards to cost which i declined

14th Nov - sorry i didn't accept the money, but they wont pay up

7th Feb - requested statements again to complete spreadsheet

27th Feb - filed with MCOL and copied them in with schedule

9th March - letter from them saying they will be looking at my complaint (I think they are starting the process again?)

28th March - another delay letter

3rd April - defence to the claim has been filed letter.

 

That's it... don't know what to do next.

 

The notice saying I should return an allocation questionaire has been crossed out.

 

C

[oneofakind]

At the moment, I don't think there's much you CAN do, except wait to hear back from the Court.

 

you're a bit ahead of me, and I've no personal experience with dealing with the courts.

 

Anyone else help?

[PKea]

Did you send a copy of your schedule to the court as an addition to your MCOL claim?

Can you post your full POC on here (remove identifiers), just to double check that you have crossed all the t's and dotted the i's

 

The initial part of their defence reads that you haven't included your account number and what individual charges you are claiming

 

Paul

[platillos]

Poc?

[platillos]

CRAIG SMITHBARCLAYS BANK PLC20-**-**50******SCHEDULE OF CLAIM FOR CHARGESPERIOD: [18/05/2001] TO (20/09/2006)In Respect of:AmountDate IncurredDays since offenceInterest 8% APR UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0018/05/20012154£9.48UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0018/06/20012123£9.34UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0018/07/20012093£9.21UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0017/08/20012063£9.08UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0010/10/20012009£8.84UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0023/10/20011996£8.78UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0024/10/20011995£8.78UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0002/11/20011986£8.74UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0005/11/20011983£8.73UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0021/11/20011967£8.65UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0004/12/20011954£8.60UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0006/12/20011952£8.59UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0007/12/20011951£8.58UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0003/01/20021924£8.47UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0006/03/20021862£8.19UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0007/03/20021861£8.19UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0008/03/20021860£8.18UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0013/05/20021794£7.89UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0014/05/20021793£7.89UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0015/05/20021792£7.88UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0010/06/20021766£7.77UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0011/06/20021765£7.77UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0012/06/20021764£7.76UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0022/07/20021724£7.59UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0024/07/20021722£7.58UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0023/08/20021692£7.44UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0018/10/20021636£7.20UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0021/10/20021633£7.19UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0022/10/20021632£7.18UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0019/11/20021604£7.06UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0020/11/20021603£7.05UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0021/11/20021602£7.05UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0021/01/20031541£6.78UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0022/01/20031540£6.78UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0024/01/20031538£6.77UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0012/02/20031519£6.68UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0013/02/20031518£6.68UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0018/02/20031513£6.66UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0018/03/20031485£6.53UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0019/03/20031484£6.53UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0020/03/20031483£6.53UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0022/04/20031450£6.38UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0023/04/20031449£6.38UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0024/04/20031448£6.37UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0002/05/20031440£6.34UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0006/05/20031436£6.32UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0007/05/20031435£6.31UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0010/07/20031371£6.03UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0014/07/20031367£6.01UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0015/07/20031366£6.01UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0012/08/20031338£5.89UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0014/08/20031336£5.88UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0015/08/20031335£5.87UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0018/09/20031301£5.72UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0019/09/20031300£5.72UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£20.0024/09/20031295£5.70UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0013/11/20031245£6.85UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0018/11/20031240£6.82UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0019/11/20031239£6.81UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0010/12/20031218£6.70UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0011/12/20031217£6.69UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0005/01/20041192£6.56UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0006/01/20041191£6.55UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0007/01/20041190£6.55UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0025/03/20041112£6.12UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0029/06/20041016£5.59UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0030/06/20041015£5.58UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0001/07/20041014£5.58UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0016/09/2004937£5.15UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0017/09/2004936£5.15UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0015/10/2004908£4.99UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0010/11/2004882£4.85UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0015/11/2004877£4.82UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0018/11/2004874£4.81UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0006/12/2004856£4.71UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0010/01/2005821£4.52UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0011/01/2005820£4.51UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0014/04/2005727£4.00UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0009/05/2005702£3.86UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0006/07/2005644£3.54UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0007/07/2005643£3.54UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0026/07/2005624£3.43UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0008/11/2005519£2.85UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0009/11/2005518£2.85UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0025/11/2005502£2.76UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0020/02/2006415£2.28UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0022/02/2006413£2.27UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£25.0027/02/2006408£2.24UNAUTHORISED OVERDRAFT FEE£30.0020/09/2006203£1.34£1,950.00£566.46£2,516.46

[PKea]

Sorry, the Particulars Of Claim.

 

Is this what you put in your Particulars of Claim?

as this is your schedule of charges

 

Paul

[platillos]

Hope this is what you meant. The account number and sort code are at the top?

[platillos]

Further up in the post is the dates of letters sent and replies.

[PKea]

Your MCOL Particulars of claim should be along these lines

 

1. The Claimant has an account 1234567 with the Defendant, opened May 2000 2. Since 01/02/03 the Defendant debited charges and interest in respect of purported breaches of contract. 3. Defendant is aware of all details as a list of charges has already been supplied. Another copy will be sent. 4. Claimant contends: (a) The charges exceed the Defendant's losses caused by the breaches; (b) The Term permitting the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and at Common Law. 5. Claimant claims: (a) return of the amounts debited of £XXXX; (b) Interest per S.69 County Courts Act 1984 of 8% - £xxx [enter interest total at date of claim] continuing at 8% until judgment or settlement at a daily rate of £0.xx; 6. Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. 7. Costs allowed by the Court.

 

Have a read of this and clarify that this is what you have done

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/34887-5-money-claim-line.html

[platillos]

This is the information that I sent to Barclays and to the MCOL as an attachement along with my schedule of charges.

C

Barclays Bank PLC

Freepost RLTA-CSUE-TCHC

Head Office Customer Relations

London

E14 5HP

Copy of claim & Schedule of charges

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Craig Smith–v- Barclays Bank PLC

Claim No: 7QZ24963

Date Issued: 27/02/2007

 

Please find enclosed a schedule of penalty charges taken from me by the defendant, along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act. The interest in addition to the amount in charges equates to the total amount of my claim, namely £2498.01.

 

I respectfully request that the enclosed schedule should be attached to the particulars of my claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

[platillos]

Following your link it looks like I just used the template for sending the schedule of charges to the bank and not the full information as listed. Is this a problem?

[PKea]

Did your Particulars of claim look like my example in post #21

 

We need to know what you put, as this is the part in which you are outlining the reason for your claim and on what basis you are claiming.

[PKea]

I have asked someone with more expertise in these matters to come and have a look at your thread.

 

Dont Worry, We will get this sorted out for you.

 

Paul

[Bookworm]

Please post here EXACTLY what you wrote on MCOL when you filed your claim.

If you go to the MCOL site, you can open your claim, just copy and paste here what you wrote.

 

Barclays are looking at getting your claim struck out, it is not a small matter, and people advising you to ignore it are putting you at risk here. All it takes is for the judge to be strict, and you could be losing it all. But we can't advise more until we know exactly what your claim form says.

[platillos]

I put exactly as in Post # 22. I didn't put any of the other text as detailed by Pkea in Post # 21