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    • This is a general comment on the entire situation. First of all that it's been mentioned, by the dealer I believe, that there are no consumer rights in this case because the car is of satisfactory quality. However, the dealer is wrong. This complaint does not relate to the requirement of "satisfactory quality". It relates to the statutory provision that goods must match their description. One can say that this is a much easier factor to measure then "satisfactory quality" which is a kind of rule of thumb view based on the expectations of reasonable consumers. It's very much easier to look at the description of the vehicle when it was being advertised and to compare it with what was actually received. So in that respect, the question is still at large whether the vehicle was as described. In respect of that if the OP is interested in taking some kind of action then I would start off by getting an independent inspection of the bonnet and of the video to see whether an independent inspector formed the view that the damage to the bonnet had been underplayed – either deliberately or accidentally, it doesn't matter. The second comment here relates to the quantum of damages which will be available if the OP brought an action against the dealer and succeeded. I understand that the entire cost of re-spraying the bonnet and then blending the colour into the wings et cetera is something like about £550. This means that an expenditure of £550 would produce a car bonnet which was essentially in new condition. However, the OP did not purchase a new car. The OP purchased a car which was second-hand and which had already suffered normal wear and tear and in respect of which at least some damage on the bonnet had been pointed out. I'm going to say now that the pictures supplied by the OP clearly have emphasised the damage. I don't know whether they have exaggerated the damage but certainly if the dealer had posted those pictures, then he would not been able to sell the car – or at least not at that price. From that point of view is it seems that it is quite possible that there was an element of underplay. If an independent inspection decided that the car had been mis-described and this report persuaded the court, then the court would award a judgement. However the court would then have to decide on the award of damages. A court would balk at awarding a level of damages which essentially handed the claimant a bonnet in brand-new condition – in other words better than she expected to receive when she bought the car. This means that the court have to calculate an apportionment of damages. This calculation would be based on the cost of repairing the bonnet and subtracting the value of the damage already in existence. So for instance, cost of repairs equals £550. Value of existing damage, say, £300 – total award approximately £250. Of course I have no idea whether these figures are correct. The only figure we can actually be certain of is the cost of repairing the bonnet. The rest of it is subject to argument and eventually a decision by the court. A reasonable way of measuring the value of the existing damage to the bonnet might be by trying to assess its effect on the resale value of the car.  What I'm saying here is that people have to tailor their expectations to take into consideration the diminution in value of the goods they have purchased by taking into account the age of that good and any defects that have already been pointed out. Reciprocally the dealer has a certain duty of candour and that is to be brutally frank about what they are selling in order to avoid these unpleasant and damaging disputes. I understand the dealer has already paid out £150. Then the OP may still be out of pocket but she will not be out of pocket to the tune of a completely renovated bonnet.  
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  • Our picks

Wingnutta vs NatWest**WON**


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Thats a fair point - i am getting a bit lost here, do i just fill in 3 copies of the N1 form?, or just send a revised POC. I now know what i have to send but getting very confused here as how to do it???? - sorry if i am being a pain!

Prelim sent 10 April - Nothing received :rolleyes:

LBA sent 24th April - Nothing received :rolleyes:

Issued Court Claim 10th May - Pending :rolleyes:

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wingnutta

 

Just to clarify and summarise everything above - you have been asked to supply a revised PoC by the court. Therefore you do not need to fill in a N244 or a N1. You need to send 2 copies of a revised PoC (one for the court and one for the bank) and keep a copy for yourself.

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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ok - that is fully understood steven - thankyou. A revised POC will be on its way tomorrow. Will keep you updated. I am a big fan of online capabilities but in this case doing MCOL in my eyes was just a hinderence. Paper copies all the way from now on!! :D

Oh and name is Adam all - less characters than wingnutta!! :p

Prelim sent 10 April - Nothing received :rolleyes:

LBA sent 24th April - Nothing received :rolleyes:

Issued Court Claim 10th May - Pending :rolleyes:

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OK Adam, with you all the way.

 

My personal opinion is that MCOL is too fraught with problems for bank charges cases - N1 is much safer

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi everyone - hope all are well. Just an update really.. i sent my revised POC along with a copy of my schedule of charges (with correct wording this time in relation to charges as they are shown on statement.) to the court manager at hitchin. I sent 2 copies to them as stated above.This was over 3 weeks ago now and i have heard nothing from either court or cobbetts??.. is this about right?? I have no deadlines to keep watch on now so is there anything i should be doing or someone i should be calling??? I dont mind sitting tight at all if thats the right thing to do - i am just very determined to see this through and i will not screw it up now! :D Very good news about the test case - although i dont think a lot of us at this time will be affected by it??? :rolleyes:

Prelim sent 10 April - Nothing received :rolleyes:

LBA sent 24th April - Nothing received :rolleyes:

Issued Court Claim 10th May - Pending :rolleyes:

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Hi wingnutta, I'm glad you got the amendment sorted out.

 

I've taken this from the 'claim too vague' thread, it should give you an idea of what to expect next:

 

Attach your spreadsheet and take 3 copies to the court, along with 3 copies of the completed N244 + the fee. Tell the court staff what has happened, apologise for their inconveniance, and ask that your current particulars of claim are disregarded and replaced by the new ones. It will have to go before a judge to ok the amendment, and you could possibily get called for an application hearing which is nothing to worry about.

Also, if you are at the AQ stage, complete your AQ and take that to the court at the same time - you'll find guide notes in the templates library.

 

The Court will then amend the details, re-seal the claim and return it to you and it is your responsibility to re-serve it on the Defendant. Ensure that you keep a copy of the sealed N1 for yourself too. Once you have served the claim you should send the Court a completed certificate of service, here http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/c.../n215_0106.pdf along with a copy of the N1 so the court knows when the bank need to respond.

 

Looks as though you need to wait for the court to get in touch - but it may be worth giving them a call tomorrow just to see where they're up to with the amendment!

 

Let us know how it goes with them x :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

ok - BIG update today my friends. Firstly i got a letter this morning from Hitchin CC from the judge saying that after reading the file he is issuing a stay pending the outcome of the test case and that neither party can remove the stay. Well i kinda expected that really so no shocks there.

In the same post load though i have received letters from natwest. Opened up the first and its we still think our charges are fair blah blah blah but that goodwill offer still stands of £109 (claim in total at mo is £1500). Obviously laughed at this but also noticed another letter looking the same. Opened it and same letter but with offer at £983.

Now i thought that this was natwest being confused as they were different amounts however it was actually me being thick - they were for the two different accounts that i am claiming for! - Now here comes the goodbit - i totalled them up and they are actually the full amount pre court fees and interest (£1092).

So here i am seeking advice, am i being an idiot not to accept as it is full original offer?? I appreciate that i have now spent £120 in court fees but in my own personal situation i am prepared to overlook that. Is it just a straight case of my own preference????

Technically i have won as they are offering my charges back so what do you all think is best?????? :confused: and as they have different ref numbers am i ok to send them both together if i do?? ie i cant just accept one and not both??

Prelim sent 10 April - Nothing received :rolleyes:

LBA sent 24th April - Nothing received :rolleyes:

Issued Court Claim 10th May - Pending :rolleyes:

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Hi Wingnutta,

 

 

I have had exactly the same happened to me, a letter with an offer from Nasty West with all the charges except interest and court fees. My case has not been stayed yet , but I think it's just a matter of time, as the banks, to be fair do have a pretty good argument for the stay, and any judge would look objectively at that.

 

Now do we take the money and run... well I guess it depends on your finances ( mine are pretty tight at the moment ) but eahc offer letter pertains to only one account, and I guess you are free to accept the offer you prefer ,( or in plain English , the money you want now and reject the one with the money that you don't mind waiting for) for to be honest , the case is due to start next Jan, and could go on for up to a year ..with appeals and such.

 

Anyway not sure is this helps, but as they say the choice is yours!

 

Good Luck!!

18/04/07 1st letter sent (again)

19/04/07 letter received by Stuart Higley

25/04/07 Usual blabla letter from NatWest "investigating and so on and so forth" received.

08/05/07 LBA sent

09/05/07 LBA received by Natwest

25/05/07 Claimed online by MCOL

Claim served on the 4th of June

Acknowledgment of service received 18th of June

Cobbets defense and Part 18 request received 05 July

Notice of Transfer of Proceedings received 06 July

19/07/07 Allocated to small claims track, refer back after 21 days.

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so i cant accept both offers then??.. even though they are for two seperate acccounts???... decision decisions eh.... money is fine with me to be honest but its the timeframe.. i am thinking over and done with really :)

Prelim sent 10 April - Nothing received :rolleyes:

LBA sent 24th April - Nothing received :rolleyes:

Issued Court Claim 10th May - Pending :rolleyes:

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No you misunderstood me, you can accept both offers as they are for different accounts.....no probs..

 

its all up to you..

18/04/07 1st letter sent (again)

19/04/07 letter received by Stuart Higley

25/04/07 Usual blabla letter from NatWest "investigating and so on and so forth" received.

08/05/07 LBA sent

09/05/07 LBA received by Natwest

25/05/07 Claimed online by MCOL

Claim served on the 4th of June

Acknowledgment of service received 18th of June

Cobbets defense and Part 18 request received 05 July

Notice of Transfer of Proceedings received 06 July

19/07/07 Allocated to small claims track, refer back after 21 days.

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ah ok... well its an offer of all my charges back so i think i am gonna accept it. My other halfs brother is just at court stage so i am going to concentrate on his. Lets see if money actually arrives eh.. thanks all.. If it does, there will most certainly be a donation on its way. :D

Prelim sent 10 April - Nothing received :rolleyes:

LBA sent 24th April - Nothing received :rolleyes:

Issued Court Claim 10th May - Pending :rolleyes:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Good morning everyone.. just an update.. i checked my natwest accounts this morning and the charges are in there!!... i accepted their offer whihc was for the full amount of charges so i am only down the court charges of £120. My original claim was £1090 so i am £970 better off.. which i am happy with. Not sure if this counts as a win but in my mind its a victory. I will be making a donation just as soon as the money is in the account i use now.

many many thanks to all and everyone that has helped me along the way - sometimes with some very patient answers to some very silly questions. Without you i would never have got this far and i am very appreciative.

Will keep checking the site and will offer help if i think i can.

Again many many thanks. :D :D :D

 

Adam

Prelim sent 10 April - Nothing received :rolleyes:

LBA sent 24th April - Nothing received :rolleyes:

Issued Court Claim 10th May - Pending :rolleyes:

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Adam

 

CONGRATULATIONS - WELL DONE!

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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congratulations.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not a legal expert my advice is given without prejudice and is purely my opinion only. If you are in doubt please seek professional advice.

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Great news Wingnutta!

 

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

 

Enjoy the cash mate, best wishes, Hedgey xxx

:D :D :D :D :D

Can't find what you're looking for? Please have a look at Michael Browne's

A-Z Guide

*** PLEASE NOTE ***

I do not answer queries via PM. If you send me a PM, please include a link to your thread - any advice I am able to offer will be on your thread.

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th_Congratulations_0907.jpg

I Wish you everything you wish yourself.

 

NatWest Claimed £1,639. Accepted £1,344.

Natwest Paid me again as GOGW £1,656. Yes they can have it back if they say please.

Barclays 1 Claimed £1,260. Won by default. Paid in full

Barclays 2 Claimed £2,378. Won by default. Paid in full

Birmingham Midshires. Claimed £2,122. Accepted £2,075.

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