Claiming beyond 6 yrs - important new information!!!

[TANZARELLI]

The Sunday Times, 27 May 2007 editorial 'Dirty, rotten banks'.

 

That will be this that you are referring to:

 

Dirty, rotten banks-Comment-Leading Article-TimesOnline

 

Tanz

[Aoife]

Zootscoot

Just to let you know after including limitations act in my POC as per your suggestion. Abbey's defence makes no reference to pre-six years at all.

Regards Aoife

[Aoife]

Also, while i think of it does anybody have T&Cs for abbey for 1996?

I know a pool is being collected but i can't see any mention of Abbey.

Aoife

[TUTTSI]

I have just read the Cank v Halifax judgement which was for a claim with Halifax over 6 years. It appears the over 6 years part of the claim was thrown out! so where does this leave us with continuing with these type of claims with the Limitations Act.

 

I am trying to get my POC together, and I am very concerned as to what I should now be including and indeed whether the claim will now suceed in the light of Cank v Halifax.

 

Surely, the ruling by the OFT in Apr06 was the starting point and must be the + factor in claimants not being aware of their claim in general and from this it transpires that a claimant who for example incurred charges beyond the 6 year period would have been aware at that time that they had a valid claim After all at that time I guess the OFT was in it's infancy! anybody with views on this please!

 

Any help in this matter would be very much appreciated.

DS

[TANZARELLI]

Hi ds

 

 

I think that CAG really needs to get the letter templates, POC templates and all the other bit into the library to avoid confusion for claimants, I know this is prob work in progress but due to some of the cases that have been thrown out etc lately it is all the more important for members to have some good examples to your as a starting point.

 

Has there been any news as to when this will happen, as in BF's post #1 it was suggested:

We will be amending templates and so forth in the coming days

 

Tanz

[TUTTSI]

Hi ds

 

 

I think that CAG really needs to get the letter templates, POC templates and all the other bit into the library to avoid confusion for claimants, I know this is prob work in progress but due to some of the cases that have been thrown out etc lately it is all the more important for members to have some good examples to your as a starting point.

 

Has there been any news as to when this will happen, as in BF's post #1 it was suggested:

 

Tanz

 

Hi Tanz,

That would be brilliant if there were some letters & POC templates as I feel at the moment lost and confused and very alone.

 

So far I have taken Bongs POC and have changed it slightly but still feel that it needs more work and in light of that case falling down on the limitation acts lots of help and support is definately needed in this area if we are to suceed not just for me but for all CAG'ers who want to go further back.

 

My problem is that on my actual claim about 80% of it is over 6 years ago so I need a very strong POC, with no gaps!!!!

 

Maybe someone will come and help me!!!!!

DS

[TANZARELLI]

Hi Tanz,

That would be brilliant if there were some letters & POC templates as I feel at the moment lost and confused and very alone.

 

So far I have taken Bongs POC and have changed it slightly but still feel that it needs more work and in light of that case falling down on the limitation acts lots of help and support is definately needed in this area if we are to suceed not just for me but for all CAG'ers who want to go further back.

 

My problem is that on my actual claim about 80% of it is over 6 years ago so I need a very strong POC, with no gaps!!!!

 

Maybe someone will come and help me!!!!!

DS

 

Do you have T&C's for the account ds?

 

When was it opened?

 

Remind me which bank you are with?

 

Also can you pm me the POC? I will have a peek for what its worth.

 

I think part of the reason for the claims being thrown out was due to arguements not being fully stated.

 

ie if you can show through the T&C's of when you opened your account that the charges were for breach of contract (failing to have sufficient funds in the account caused a charg, and have T&C's to prove they have now concealled the charges by cloaking/veiling them as a service charge, your proof would be changes to the wording in the recent T&C's. This coupled with the OFT findings and that they continue to charge you after this was discovered by you gives IMHO a strong arguement for section 32 to come into play. You can also add that fact you beleive they have misrepresented the nature of the charges etc.

 

Tanz

[emmaf01]

I will be doing my court bundle in the next couple of days and wish to include the Limitations Act to stop the Halifax from attempting to get rid of the Six year plus charges.

[zootscoot]

Some additions for your bundle:

 

 

Limitation Act 1980 (c. 5:cool: - Statute Law Database

 

 

House of Lords - Kleinwort Benson LTD. v. Lincoln City Council

Kleinwort Benson LTD. v. Mayor etc. of the London Borough of Southwark and Others

Kleinwort Benson LTD. v. Birmingham City Council

Kleinwort Benson LTD. v. Mayor etc. of the Lo

 

Williams v Fanshaw Porter & Hazelhurst [2004] EWCA Civ 157 (18 February 2004)

 

Cave v. Robinson Jarvis & Rolf [2002] UKHL 18 (25th April, 2002)

 

Sheldon v. R.H.M. Outhwaite (U/W Agencies) Ltd.

[kennyh]

Many thanks Zoot

[emmaf01]

Can someone who has prepared a court bundle, PM me to go over what it entails?

 

I'm giving myself a week, I've done 3 copies of all my statements, downloaded the bundle- I just want a bit of advice.

[TUTTSI]

Do you have T&C's for the account ds?

 

When was it opened?

 

Remind me which bank you are with?

 

Also can you pm me the POC? I will have a peek for what its worth.

 

I think part of the reason for the claims being thrown out was due to arguements not being fully stated.

 

ie if you can show through the T&C's of when you opened your account that the charges were for breach of contract (failing to have sufficient funds in the account caused a charg, and have T&C's to prove they have now concealled the charges by cloaking/veiling them as a service charge, your proof would be changes to the wording in the recent T&C's. This coupled with the OFT findings and that they continue to charge you after this was discovered by you gives IMHO a strong arguement for section 32 to come into play. You can also add that fact you beleive they have misrepresented the nature of the charges etc.

 

Tanz

 

The account was with the Halifax and was opened as a joint account prior to 1995 and in fact I believe it could have been opened as early as 1990. The account was closed by them in Oct 06 or that is when they sold the balance of the account to capquest. It was only Capquest that sent me the statement going back to 1997, but the account was definately opended long before that. Most of the majority of charges on this claim is at least 80% before 6 years. We cannot find the original file so no we do not have T & C's. Do you know someone that has or should I write to them for a copy.

 

I will let you have a look at the POC when we finally get it all together.

Many thanks for your offer of help.

DS

[TANZARELLI]

The account was with the Halifax and was opened as a joint account prior to 1995 and in fact I believe it could have been opened as early as 1990. The account was closed by them in Oct 06 or that is when they sold the balance of the account to capquest. It was only Capquest that sent me the statement going back to 1997, but the account was definately opended long before that. Most of the majority of charges on this claim is at least 80% before 6 years. We cannot find the original file so no we do not have T & C's. Do you know someone that has or should I write to them for a copy.

 

I will let you have a look at the POC when we finally get it all together.

Many thanks for your offer of help.

DS

 

Not that far back I have Halifax Cardcash Conditions March 1999.

[TUTTSI]

Not that far back I have Halifax Cardcash Conditions March 1999.

 

So I am I right in thinking I need the conditions for the period the account was opened! or would the 1999 T & C's be okay.

 

If I write to Halifax would they supply a copy!!!! and request the T & C's for the year the account was opened, and Should I request that under a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

 

As a lay person with no legal background, am I right in thinking that if they cannot supply this document they would not be allowed to rely on it!!

 

DS

[Mendipman1]

dsilverstein/tanzarelli

 

I've not got the hang of CAG web-site, yet! Am I right that Bankfodder depositons 'definitive'? I would like some thing definitive when the principal sells off the debt, to a third party 'Capquest' must be some issue of bonafide.

 

I had a contemporary, whereat a third party unbeknown to her, had run up a BT telphone bill to over £4k in one quarter, yes one quarter, where previously it would have been around £100. Pursued by a so called 'international' firm of debt collectors. She referred to the 'principal' BT, Sir IanVallance, never heard any thing more from the 'international' debt collector & heavy handed tatics! Interestingly I believe this trigerred a soft ware package, whereat BT now send a warning when an account appears to be running in historic excess.

 

Yours truly awaitng Financial Ombudsman Service, any one out there any experience? I note a proliferation of 'firms' offering 'no win, no fee' any feed back, moreso solicitors/counsel oferring 'pro bono'?

[TANZARELLI]

dsilverstein/tanzarelli

 

I've not got the hang of CAG web-site, yet! Am I right that Bankfodder depositons 'definitive'? I would like some thing definitive when the principal sells off the debt, to a third party 'Capquest' must be some issue of bonafide.

 

I had a contemporary, whereat a third party unbeknown to her, had run up a BT telphone bill to over £4k in one quarter, yes one quarter, where previously it would have been around £100. Pursued by a so called 'international' firm of debt collectors. She referred to the 'principal' BT, Sir IanVallance, never heard any thing more from the 'international' debt collector & heavy handed tatics! Interestingly I believe this trigerred a soft ware package, whereat BT now send a warning when an account appears to be running in historic excess.

 

Yours truly awaitng Financial Ombudsman Service, any one out there any experience? I note a proliferation of 'firms' offering 'no win, no fee' any feed back, moreso solicitors/counsel oferring 'pro bono'?

 

Not sure what your asking but if you want info on debt or the sale of debt to a DCA then start a thread in one of these links and ask your question in there:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs/

 

HTH

 

Tanz

[Muffintop]

I rang the Nationwide again today as had a direct number for the data protection dept and a name. The guy I spoke to was g8, he said he was actually looking at my pre 6 year statements! as we spoke and he would send them out to me these are from 1993 and 1991!

He told me that they have now had guidance that people CAN and HAVE claimed pre 6 years! This guy was genuine and I truly believe that I will receive the statements (not in statement form but in another form) skeggsy

[Muffintop]

So I am I right in thinking I need the conditions for the period the account was opened! or would the 1999 T & C's be okay.

 

If I write to Halifax would they supply a copy!!!! and request the T & C's for the year the account was opened, and Should I request that under a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

 

As a lay person with no legal background, am I right in thinking that if they cannot supply this document they would not be allowed to rely on it!!

 

DS

surely if you dont have the t and C's for the a/c it would be up to them to produce them as a defence?

[GRIFF27]

Hi Skeggs is there any chance you could post Direct number for Nationwide Data protection dept?

[onevodka]

hi - have started a claim against abbey pre 6 years. My account was opened late 80s and I dont have a copy of the T&Cs. Do I have to produce it? Also, am I right in that I cant rely on UTCR 1999... I'd be Soooooooooooooo grateful for any help on this I too have read cank v halifax...

[beetlejuice]

Where are we on Claiming on accounts that are closed going back further 6 yrs - Any comments? Just want to know whether I should dig out my old NatWest Statemets from previous accounts held?

 

Is the argument - if any charge is within the last six years a claim can/should be made right the way back, what if the last charge was more than six years ago

 

Comments please.......BF/anyone

 

BJ

 

[kennythecelt]

Hi all

Sorry if this has been raised before.

Is there not a legal timescale that banks are required to store/ keep account information for? This might have something to do with Inland Revenue, Customs and Excise or the banks own interests.

If there was a need for the them or the police or indeed, the banks themselves to investigate possible fraud/ crime/ overpayments to us as customers etc then account details might be kept for substantially longer. The courts and powers that be would surely want access to financial banking periods for individuals and customers going back over a substantial period of time if they felt they needed it to pursue underpayment of tax, possible crime etc.

I do appreciate the issue re introduction of computerisation and that records prior to then would be stored in hard copy or micro fiche/ file etc and that those are probably handled by specialist companies and it takes a bit of time to access.

However, with so many people having signed agreements of settlement when being offered refunds within the 6 year period, they are signing away the right to reclaim charges before that period. Should people be advised to sign a settlement on the 6 year period only, reserving the right to reclaim older charges.

As I said, please excuse me if this has been covered elsewhere.

In my own case with BoS, given the pressure the BoS have put on me since 1992, I want to go back till the time I opened the account with them now. I had originally asked for details covering the 6 year period but feel I should go for it all. After all, it was the charges in 1992/93 on that started the snowball affect of the charges levied in later years and this will be the same for others.

Many thanks

[lellypea]

Echoing part of Beetlejuice's query above.... I claimed ALL of our last 6 year NW charges back last year.

 

Since then we have 'stayed clean' so have no 'current charges' However, as we now have a pre 6 yr NW claim of some 6K joint a/c and 2K hubs a/c, this 'good behaviour' may not work in our favour.

 

My question is - to avoid risks of claim being thrown out due to NO current charges - I thought I might adopt the following plan

to 'create' a safety net....

 

Hubs could deliberately incur some charges over next couple of months

giving us the benefit of a 'current' claim. As the joint a/c was closed in 2001 we lump the 2 a/c's together and thus 'safeguard' the whole claim.

 

(the bank themselves chose to lump personal and joint a/c's together in claim last year)

 

I don't want to get this wrong as I really need the money.

 

Comments anyone??

[Dusary]

Today I FINALLY received statements for the period January 1996 - Jan 2001 (I've already got the 2001 - to date statements) for ONE account. (I'm not convinced that this is my total banking history for that account).

 

I'm contemplating adding that to my spreadsheet before sending my preliminary request for repayment.

 

What do you good folks think?

[kennythecelt]

Hi Dusary- I posted this on my own thread and if nothing else, it might give you and others a laugh and, make us all the more determined-

 

(Information received by telephone in conversation with BoS Customer Relations Manager handling my claim. (name withheld))

 

"BoS do not consider paying back over 6 years, so you can't do that. In fact, in recognition of the fact that you Scots should not really be discriminated against and we have customers there and in England, BoS has decided to treat everyone equally and consider claims for 6 years, not 5."

 

Is that not nice and considerate of them!!!

Everyone being treated the same- well we all know that given the volume of correspondence on this community!!!

 

We shall not be moved!!