Lloyds Cant Find Agreement But Been Paying For 15 Years

[stan5131]

Hi guys. Ive been helping lots of friends with their debts. I would be grateful for any input on the following.

 

My friend K and her husband took out a £7,000 loan with Lloyds about 15 years ago. Loan was over (we think) 4 years. After 2/3 years her husband lost his job and there was about a year of reduced/missed payments. It was then passed onto DCA and reduced payments continued. However, the debt had grown to about £15,000 and he decided to file himself bankrupt because of the mounting pressure of all the debts. Eventually because of other financial pressures, her husband went bankrupt and due to breakdown of marriage mainly due to finances, they divorced. Anyway, the DCA (Intrum Justicia) told her that she was liable for the debt because he had gone bankrupt. She has been paying this ever since even though she thinks it was only her husband that signed for the loan.

 

I sent a CCA request to Intrum Justicia who promptly responded saying that they had passed the debt back to Lloyds lol! I wrote back asking for confirmation of whether or not they had bought the debt. They replied saying Lloyds were their Client and all monies they had collected had been passed to Lloyds. My friend has been paying this for so long that she cant even remember how much she has paid them. The correspondence from IJ said she still owed nearly £7,000.

 

Sent SAR to Lloyds direct. Now this is the best bit.... Lloyds replied saying the account was closed in 1992 and they have NO records at all or copy of agreement.

 

I reckon she might have paid £20,000 over the last 15 years.

 

What next?

[elsinore]

Hi Stan.

 

Seems to me that, as you have exposed their cash cow, IJ have dropped this case like a hot potato. Because of that, I think K should now cease payments, forthwith.

 

She could then do nothing and will probably hear nothing from IJ ever again.

 

On the other hand, she might well have overpaid a substantial sum, which you might be able to recover.

 

If she wants to pursue it, you should send a DPA Subject Access Request to IJ for all the information they have on your friend K and her husband. There should be a detail of all the payments made to IJ as well as information about the date the debt was transferred/bought from LTSB and the amount. If any charges have been added by IJ they should also show up. They might even inform you how much (if anything) they paid LTSB for the debt! There should also be a detail of all the correspondence and phone calls between IJ and K and husband. There might also be details of the original loan interest rate, repayment term, etc.

 

In the SAR letter you should also dispute the alleged balance and state that no further payments will be made.

 

Try to calculate the total amount that K and husband should have paid over the natural life of the loan. There are some loan repayment calculators knocking about to help you do that. Also try to list all payments made to IJ by K and husband.

 

Press K and husband for any documents, statements, letters, anything from LTSB that will add to the picture.

 

Ultimately, you might well have a case for return of overpayments.

 

IJ are the pits. I crossed swords with them a few tears ago, so I would be delighted to see K get some money back from them.

 

Els

[stan5131]

Thanks Els. IJ wrote back saying they hadnt bought the debt and that no charges had been imposed and all payments sent to Lloyds. They say the dont want any more payments (even though they have hounded her for increased payments over the years) and have passed file back to Lloyds. Loyds now say they have no knowledge of this account.

 

Someone needs bringing to justice! Will send SAR to IJ and see what comes back. K has been paying this for so long, she hasnt a clue how much she has paid. Her husband went bankrupt mainly because of this debt and the judge made reference that the debt had spiralled out of control due to charges and interest. This was in the 1990's.

[ukaviator]

Hi Stan

 

Send your S.A.R. with the £10 cheque. You really need to get all of this information to see what has gone on with this account. Keep us posted.

 

Uk

[stan5131]

Thanks Aviator. Will let you know outcome. SAR going off today.

[PriorityOne]

Thanks Els. IJ wrote back saying they hadnt bought the debt and that no charges had been imposed and all payments sent to Lloyds. They say the dont want any more payments (even though they have hounded her for increased payments over the years) and have passed file back to Lloyds. Loyds now say they have no knowledge of this account.

 

Someone needs bringing to justice! Will send SAR to IJ and see what comes back. K has been paying this for so long, she hasnt a clue how much she has paid. Her husband went bankrupt mainly because of this debt and the judge made reference that the debt had spiralled out of control due to charges and interest. This was in the 1990's.

 

Hi Stan,

 

This is terrible ! :o .... but they have provided you with some good ammunition to go after them. Since they have admitted (in writing, I hope) that the debt was not bought, there will be no Deed of Assignment ... which means that they cannot prove any legal right whatsoever (in my opinion) to have pursued your friend for payment at all.

 

If you have also got written confirmation that Lloyds closed the account all those years ago.... then confirmation from Lloyds and no D of A from IJ.... it's no wonder IJ have dropped this like a concrete block !! It falls under "unjust enrichment".... and with no docs., you should be able to sue the socks offf them

 

Under the circumstances, I would also look into how the debt got transferred to IJ by Lloyds in the first place and question their legal right to pass it to an external agency to milk your friend for the next X years, with no legal documentation passing between the 2 companies.... and with no end in sight for your friend . That letter from IJ may also help you to screw Lloyds's butt into the ground on this one as well because if the debt wasn't legally assigned by Lloyds, then Lloyds should have been keeping track of those payments.

 

[stan5131]

Thanks Priority. I have just sent SAR off today to IJ. K has been into her loft and found about six statments from Lloyds showing charges of upto £30 a time dating back to 1993! She is going to have another rummage this weekend and see what else she can find.

 

I doubt that IJ will comply with SAR request. I suspect they will say their file is closed and has been passed back to Lloyds. Lloyds in turn are denying all knowledge. If she sues, what figure do we put on it. Her husband went bankrupt because of this debt.

 

Stan

[PriorityOne]

Thanks Priority. I have just sent SAR off today to IJ. K has been into her loft and found about six statments from Lloyds showing charges of upto £30 a time dating back to 1993! She is going to have another rummage this weekend and see what else she can find.

 

I doubt that IJ will comply with SAR request. I suspect they will say their file is closed and has been passed back to Lloyds. Lloyds in turn are denying all knowledge. If she sues, what figure do we put on it. Her husband went bankrupt because of this debt.

 

Stan

 

IJ will have no choice but to comply Stan.... and you can order them to comply throught the Courts if they don't. I doubt that they will want this.... since they will then have to prove their legal right to collect on this debt and since there is no Deed of Assignment unless an account is sold, they can't.... On the other side of the coin, if it emerges that the debt was sold after all, then they will have to supply info. relating to all payments received from your friend... so either way, they are stuffed.

 

If you go through the ICO for SAR non-compliance, then it rules out compensation.... but if you threaten court action and force them to disclose their (non-existant) legal authority to pursue payment before a judge (D of A).... you may get a result much sooner than expected.

 

Even if they have (as they claim) passed it back to Lloyds, can your friend K prove that those payments were been made to IJ ?.... statements, receipts, etc ? She also needs written confirmation from Lloyds that the Agreement was terminated and how (written off ? sold ? passed over for collection ?)....in order to back IJ further into a corner and to know where she stands. Get as much as you can in writing. I have no idea what kind of comp. figure to put on this.... but it invites some speculation about theft and possible fraud on the part of IJ if none of these payments went to Lloyds and were pocketed by IJ instead.

 

For now, I think it's probably best to concentrate on the paper trail that you'll need in order to prove her case against these parasites..... and consider the compensation side of things at a later date.

 

[elsinore]

They say the dont want any more payments (even though they have hounded her for increased payments over the years) and have passed file back to Lloyds.

 

What a coincidence! At the very moment IJ received your CCA request, they noticed that K had made her final payment. Not, “sorry, there’s still a balance to be paid” or “whoops, you’ve overpaid, here’s a refund” but “file’s closed, nothing more to pay, goodbye!” Methinks somebody has been caught with their hand in the till.

 

I think you should send an SAR to LTSB as well. They must have evidence of the payments that IJ have transferred to them (assuming IJ have transferred anything!) at least for the last six years.

 

As PriorityOne has said, they must comply. If they fail to do so, you can get an order from the court to compel them.

Els

[stan5131]

Els, when IJ said file closed and passed back to Lloyds, we sent SAR to Lloyds. They returned cheque saying the account was closed in 1992 and they no longer have any record of it... bangs head against wall!!!

 

I then wrote back to IJ advising them of Lloyds comments. They wrote back saying "we can assure you that the debt was not purchased from Lloyds and we were merely acting on their behalf. we can confirm that all payments collected were passed on to Lloyds"

 

Something is definitely not right here!

[elsinore]

Apologies Stan, of course you did tell us that in your first post. Serves me right for not reading it again before posting!

 

Let's hope that the SAR to IJ throws up enough evidence.

 

Els

[PriorityOne]

Els, when IJ said file closed and passed back to Lloyds, we sent SAR to Lloyds. They returned cheque saying the account was closed in 1992 and they no longer have any record of it... bangs head against wall!!!

 

I then wrote back to IJ advising them of Lloyds comments. They wrote back saying "we can assure you that the debt was not purchased from Lloyds and we were merely acting on their behalf. we can confirm that all payments collected were passed on to Lloyds"

 

Something is definitely not right here!

 

 

Stan... can Lloyds confirm in writing that the account was not sold ?.. there must be some details on microfiche somewhere. If there was an outstanding balance on the account, they must have done something with that balance. If it was merely closed.... then they are implying that it was written off.... ... unless the outstanding balance was connected to the bankruptcy in some way.... You need to know how the account was closed.

[fuzzywuzzy]

Absolutely gutted.

 

I know this is an old thread but just had to ask is there anymore on this, it was like reading a very good book where you just know theres going to be justice at the end, but there wasn't an ending:( is there any news on whats happened. ?

 

I do hope its in your favor, and you are kicking them hard.

 

F

[patrickq1]

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