Taking Cabot to court for failing to supply HSBC CCA + Distress etc

[Rhia]

Has anyone been to the press with this story. I am sure Watchdog or Inside Out or the Mail or any of them would be interested in this.

[tbern123]

Re CAF bank-sorry I spoke. It would be logical to see a link with CAbot

Financial, but apparently CAF stands for Charities Aid Foundation.

What a coinciidence the initials and the addres are so close.

 

I did the same, when I first started digging... Similar name and similar address.......

 

if you find any others, please let me know. I am trying to find out as much as I can about all these companies...

 

Really appreciate your help.... Sorry I can't click your scales at the moment. It won't let me until I spread the reputation around more....

[tbern123]

Has anyone been to the press with this story. I am sure Watchdog or Inside Out or the Mail or any of them would be interested in this.

 

Not, yet..... posting on here is one thing.. Don't really details relating to me and my finances in the press..

 

Saying that though. Out of the three alledged debts sold to Cabot

 

1) HSBC - After more than two months, they have still been unable to provide me with a copy of the credit agreement:rolleyes:

2) Barclaycard - The credit agreement they provided has not been signed by Barclaycard, thus was not executed properly:-o

3) Bank of Scotland - Account was with Capital Bank (a subsidary of BOS) and was from 1998.

 

I won't even start on the breaches of the CCA and DPA etc..... everyday more and more seems to come to light about these companies and none of it is good

[Rhia]

 

 

Company Name:

 

THE MESSAGE SERVICE LIMITED

Company No: 05495362

Registered Office:Incorporated: 30/06/2005GLEBE HOUSE

2 CLIFTON ROAD

RUGBY

CV21 3PX

 

Company Type: Private LimitedReport Status: Full DataAccounts Type: UnknownLatest Accounts to: ?Latest Return to: 30/06/2006

Please note that this company has not yet filed any accounts at Companies House and therefore no financial information will be available.

 

message from Rhia:

This is like unpeeling the layers of an onion. They lodged their court papers at Rugby. So are we now dealing with THREE breaches of the DPA? I may be wrong but this is too much of a coincidence. Also I received a couple of telephone messages a few weeks ago saying they were a survey of some description and it was these but I just cut them off dead. Never realised they were part of the same set up although was suspicious of the random nature of the calls. I will be talking to Andy Lowther tomorrow so thanks for that info too. My lawyers can't beleive what these companies are doing. Neither can I.

[tbern123]

Another new story... (I am starting to spend way to much time on this site)

 

It is three years old, the interesting part is:

 

Cabot buys portfolios of bad debts cheaply - as little as 3p in the pound - and then attempts to manage and recover a proportion of the loans. Rivals say the business is risky but can offer very high margins and returns.

 

Telegraph | Money

[lookinforinfo]

Cabot also have another company- Kings Hill capital limited 03890593

oh what a tangled web we weave..

 

PS Tbern-don't worry about clicking my scales-I'd rather people didn't

anyway.

[tbern123]

Cabot also have another company- Kings Hill capital limited 03890593

oh what a tangled web we weave..

 

PS Tbern-don't worry about clicking my scales-I'd rather people didn't

anyway.

 

Mmmm another one to start digging into...

 

On a seperate note.

 

Can anyone please confirm if it is legally possible to default on a credit credit agreement that was not properly executed thus not enforceable without a court order.

 

I would also appreciate details of any cases regarding agreements that were not properly executed, especially if the outcome is favourable to the debtor

[stiffnuts]

Mmmm another one to start digging into...

 

On a seperate note.

 

Can anyone please confirm if it is legally possible to default on a credit credit agreement that was not properly executed thus not enforceable without a court order.

 

I would also appreciate details of any cases regarding agreements that were not properly executed, especially if the outcome is favourable to the debtor

 

The question you ask is very complicated and technical. The answer to your question is both yes and no. I dont think it should matter really. If it was me I would keep very quiet about the agreement and let them take me to court and then show the judge that the copy of the agreement they sent does not have the creditors signature.

 

Remember what I said the court cant make an enforcement order in the above circumstances.

 

The information commissioner has said that in terms of ones credit file with a defualt. When it comes to improperly executed/unenforceable agreements they will look at each matter on a case by case basis, if you attmept to get the default removed.

[tbern123]

The question you ask is very complicated and technical. The answer to your question is both yes and no. I dont think it should matter really. If it was me I would keep very quiet about the agreement and let them take me to court and then show the judge that the copy of the agreement they sent does not have the creditors signature.

 

Remember what I said the court cant make an enforcement order in the above circumstances.

 

The information commissioner has said that in terms of ones credit file with a defualt. When it comes to improperly executed/unenforceable agreements they will look at each matter on a case by case basis, if you attmept to get the default removed.

 

Thanks Stiffnuts, I am waiting for the Information Commissioner to come back to me about something else. When they do, I'll ask them about this aswell.

 

Thank you

[lookinforinfo]

Tbern, at the risk of hijacking your thread,which is not my intention, I would

like to ask the thoughts on a comment you downloaded about Cabot which so far has gone unmentioned-

"We have tried to negotiate with them but they won't go under 50p in £ ( Despite the fact they paid a fraction of that to purchase the debt). Our advice is not to negotiate with them ( They are not your friends) but go straight to court and get disclosure of how much they paid for your debt- then leave it to the judge to decide. Believe us you will come out far better. Remember under the CONSUMER CONTRACT REGULATIONS 1999

they will have to prove that the amount of work done is commensurate with the difference between the purchase cost of the debt and the amount they are trying to collect."

 

Now as far as I am aware, that when companies such as Cabot buy debts,

regardless of the price paid, they are legally entitled to pursue the debtor

for the full amount.

The above article appears to dispute that, in this case by citing a similar

argument that we apply to unfair bank charges, which probably would fail

in Court.

However, in the CCR 1999, Schedule 2 [1] [e] {which is part of a list of

terms that may be considered unfair} it says "requiring any consumer

who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in

compensation"

Now that may have a better chance?.

[tbern123]

Tbern, at the risk of hijacking your thread,which is not my intention, I would

like to ask the thoughts on a comment you downloaded about Cabot which so far has gone unmentioned-

"We have tried to negotiate with them but they won't go under 50p in £ ( Despite the fact they paid a fraction of that to purchase the debt). Our advice is not to negotiate with them ( They are not your friends) but go straight to court and get disclosure of how much they paid for your debt- then leave it to the judge to decide. Believe us you will come out far better. Remember under the CONSUMER CONTRACT REGULATIONS 1999

they will have to prove that the amount of work done is commensurate with the difference between the purchase cost of the debt and the amount they are trying to collect."

 

Now as far as I am aware, that when companies such as Cabot buy debts,

regardless of the price paid, they are legally entitled to pursue the debtor

for the full amount.

The above article appears to dispute that, in this case by citing a similar

argument that we apply to unfair bank charges, which probably would fail

in Court.

However, in the CCR 1999, Schedule 2 [1] [e] {which is part of a list of

terms that may be considered unfair} it says "requiring any consumer

who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in

compensation"

Now that may have a better chance?.

 

Feel free to hijack away...

 

I have learnt so much since joining this site.... Everytime I come on here someone like you has found something new...

 

One, little moan though, nothing personal..

 

All this reading of acts his giving me a headache !!!!!

 

ANYONE GOT ANY ASPRIN ?????? lol

[lookinforinfo]

I asked if you minded me hijacking your thread, not asking you for sex. LOL

[andrew1]

 

 

Company Name:

 

THE MESSAGE SERVICE LIMITED

Company No: 05495362

Registered Office:Incorporated: 30/06/2005GLEBE HOUSE

2 CLIFTON ROAD

RUGBY

CV21 3PX

 

Company Type: Private LimitedReport Status: Full DataAccounts Type: UnknownLatest Accounts to: ?Latest Return to: 30/06/2006

Please note that this company has not yet filed any accounts at Companies House and therefore no financial information will be available.

 

message from Rhia:

This is like unpeeling the layers of an onion. They lodged their court papers at Rugby. So are we now dealing with THREE breaches of the Data Protection Act? I may be wrong but this is too much of a coincidence. Also I received a couple of telephone messages a few weeks ago saying they were a survey of some description and it was these but I just cut them off dead. Never realised they were part of the same set up although was suspicious of the random nature of the calls. I will be talking to Andy Lowther tomorrow so thanks for that info too. My lawyers can't beleive what these companies are doing. Neither can I.

 

 

 

Wouldn't you just know it ! The 3 Directors of The Message Service Limited

 

Ken Maynard

John Randall

Glen Crawford

 

Same as Cabot Financial Europe Ltd, Kingshill No 1 Ltd, Cabot Financial Debt Recovery Services Ltd etc etc etc..... who do they think we are?

[Rhia]

Good work. Maynard and Crawford also have a 20% holding in Cabot which was owned by Barclays Bank now by this Japanese company. It made £5 million last year not sure if this is net or gross need to do a full Companies House search. Makes me wonder why Barclays sold it though? If it was a very profitable operation they would have wanted to keep it.

[debt_mountain]

I called the information commissioner and asked about companies sharing data from 1 ltd company to another and the wee wifie said" if they have the same data controller they can share the information".

 

So I called Cabot and they said that Cabot Financial Europe ltd is the data controller for the full group.

 

So it looks like they can share the data freely. Need to see this is writing so I am adding it to the data I would like to see presented to the court for my case.

 

AQ is nearly ready to go.

 

I also spoke with Andrew Lowther and he was most interested in what Cabot are upto and asked that I send on my info.

 

I have 1 final question. When a default is issued does this terminate the agreement?

 

PS, a very nice lady from Cabot called me back. No she really was very nice. She was confirming that Cabot Fin Europe ltd are the data controller for the full group.

 

I had also asked her if I sent a letter or court papers to Cabot Financial Debt Recovery Ltd who would get it? this is who I used in my claim.

 

she said she had been told to day no company exists under that name or it is not part of their group.

 

So how do you explain this?

 

CABOT FINANCIAL DEBT RECOVERY SERVICES LIMITED

10 KINGS HILL AVENUE

WEST MALLING

KENT

ME19 4LT

Company No. 03936134

 

Strange, same address? and their solicitors say they don't exist but they happily received the papers, completed the defence for this unknown company and returned it to the court. Very odd behavious.

 

Do they actually know what businesses they own?

 

I have just ordered the reports on them from Company house?

 

lets see what that says.

[andrew1]

You should have asked her who she worked for - Cabot Financial Debt Recovery Services Ltd OWNS both Kingshill No1 Ltd AND Cabot Financial Europe Ltd. .

 

I wonder if getting all this info is of much use though, I am not happy about that Data Controller bit - it is a confusing scenario and none of this confusion would have existed if they had a straight forward means of defaulting/buying/chasing and a lot of people including me could have got on with more important things. In Law a company is a company is a company, if you sue the wrong one it gets thrown out. - If one goes down, does the other still take the rap? - bet your life they don't - I hate this deceipt and scullduggery.

[tbern123]

I recieved a letter from my favourite company. I made my CCA request over two months ago (amount of time very important).....

 

Anyway they have finally provided me with the information, I requested in relation to the Bank of Scotland account. Included with this letter was a paragraph about contacting them to discuss my payment options...

 

Funny they don't mention anything about still being unable to provide anything in relation to the HSBC account or the fact that the Barclaycard agreement was incorrectly executed and unenforable without a court order.

 

I have found a couple of court cases to set legal precedent that a judge would not make a court order. I'll post the cases details on here later on tonight.

 

Anyway, I have now reached the end of my tether... I was just playing before... Now the fun really starts.

 

Further to Debt Moutain posts, I also talked to ICO, basically they said the same as they told you, they also told me where on their website it states that data can be shared. I'll post the links later on.

 

Even though Cabot can share data, in my case they did not have authorisation from two of the accounts.

 

1) HSBC unable to provide copy of agreement and unable to show I agreed to my information being shared

2) Barclaycard, the agreement was improperly executed and unenforable without a court order, so this account should never have been sold to a DCA and they shouldn't be processing or sharing my data, or making demands for money

3) Bank of Scotland - They have commited an offence under the CCA by taking two months to fulfill my request. From what I understand they must now also seek a court order for this.

 

Sorry for going on... had a sh*& day at work

[Rhia]

I think this may well be sailing close to the wind and I have had slightly different info on this and am pressing ahead with the complaint to the Information Commissioner anyway as Cabot or whoever the hell they are in their various forms are obviously using the different companies as a smokescreen. If this is correct about the DPA and they can share info I think the Commissioner would be interested in the way they are taking advantage of the laws. So file those complaints. They may well come back no action but it will be a heads up for the IC.

There is also a third party involved here and one I have only become aware of - the Message Company as stated above. Now I have had calls from these so where is this info from? How do they fit into the framework? We know they share two directors with Cabot and that they are being investigated by Trading Standards. If this is a totally different company and they are sharing our data with them then they ARE in breach. Andrew I don't agree about this information not helping. You can never have enough information and even if it means you have to change tack at least it's an informed decision. Don't lose heart here. Victory is in sight.

[Rhia]

Forgot to add. Just remember they never got Al Capone on extortion, prostitution, gambling, illicit drink, racketeering etc...in the end it was on tax evasion.

[tbern123]

I called the information commissioner and asked about companies sharing data from 1 ltd company to another and the wee wifie said" if they have the same data controller they can share the information".

 

So I called Cabot and they said that Cabot Financial Europe ltd is the data controller for the full group.

 

Right, I am now on a mission with these people.

 

This has been posted before, so sorry for the repeated information...

Can anyone guess who the data controller is for Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd (according to the ICO) ????

 

Information Commissioners - Data Protection Register - Entry Details

 

 

Now do a search on the post code and the three following companies come up:

 

CABOT FINANCIAL (EUROPE) LIMITED

FINANCIAL INVESTIGATIONS AND RECOVERIES (EUROPE) LIMITED

KINGS HILL (NO 1) LIMITED

[andrew1]

The Message Service Ltd

- Issued shares = 1 @ £1

 

Guess which company owns it?

 

Cabot Financial Debt Recovery Services Ltd

 

 

Onwards and Upwards - just be interesting to know which company was bought by the Japanese - I wonder if they know about all these

 

 

and Rhia - it's all 3 Directors not 2 and the same Company Secretary John Randall.

 

By the way, I wasn't either losing heart or in any way critisising about too much info, I totally agree with you, Debt Mountain & tbern - I just wish I had your time to be so thorough. I have no love for these beggars and my day is fast approaching and by the sounds of things it's just the right time for me to now get my TS letters off as I'm sure he's getting pretty fed up of this outfit.

 

Also, I cannot honestly believe that there might be the same Data controller for all companies. Think about it for a minute - who EXACTLY is the Data Controller and which company is he/she employed by? On which payroll is he/she on? Unless it is one of the principle Directors of the Company Secretary for all these companies I cannot believe other people working for one or another company in the group can officially have access to personal data. Rugby is a long commuter trip to West Malling so 'others' are obviously having access in another part of the country in another part of the company's systems, Seperate Limited Companies have by law to file seperate Accounts and these must all be seperate. I work within accounts and this is just pushing the limits of any Data Protection Act to extremes. This is a blatant abuse of their obligations to protect our data during processing. If you are speaking to the Information Commissioner and have or tbern has a contact I'd be very interested in knowing their thoughts on that.

[tbern123]

Kings Hill (No.1)Ltd are a Data Controller according to the ICO, so someone at Cabot either misunderstood the question or is telling porkies

[andrew1]

Right, I am now on a mission with these people.

 

This has been posted before, so sorry for the repeated information...

Can anyone guess who the data controller is for Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd (according to the Information Commissioners Office) ????

 

Information Commissioners - Data Protection Register - Entry Details

 

 

Now do a search on the post code and the three following companies come up:

 

CABOT FINANCIAL (EUROPE) LIMITED

FINANCIAL INVESTIGATIONS AND RECOVERIES (EUROPE) LIMITED

KINGS HILL (NO 1) LIMITED

 

 

 

So tbern, well done, can you do the same for the other companies and include The Message Service to boot?

[tbern123]

http://www.esd.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/esd/DoSearch.asp

 

Here you go for the message service... funny enough they are also a data controller..

 

I might have to explain to Cabot the difference between a data controller and a data processor as defind by the DPA 1988.

 

If you do a search for Cabot only my old pal Cabot Financial (Europe) comes up

[Rhia]

This is all a bit late at night for me but good stuff none the less. Andrew1 I know you weren't getting down. I cannot say how valuable it is to have this small group of people who are experiencing the same issues and are all determined to get to the bottom of it all. Whatever we do or find will help others along the way.And as I said before even if there is no real action that can be taken TS and the Information office will be very aware of this shyster operation. I still think they are pulling a fast one re DPA. Will take a long look tomorrow. By the way I am penninga letter for my M.P. too as we need to raise a real fuss about this.