Taking Cabot to court for failing to supply HSBC CCA + Distress etc

[Seahorse]

Well said, Rhia, me old china.

[Rhia]

;-)

[rippedoffagain]

[andrew1]

I have lodged my complaint to ICO on precisely these grounds as well as the illegal sharing of data between companies without consent. ICO has just been back to me for more letters to show that I did try and sort this out directly with DCA, which of course I did.

All they have been able to stump up so far is a unreadable photocopy of the APPLICATION form (not an executed agreement) I have attempted to read this after scanning and increasing size and although it is still difficult to read nowhere does it say that data can be used except for lending decisions in regard to the application and to prevent fraud.

The ICO will be the key to all of this. The original lender is most definitely at fault for not dealing with the debt properly and its undue haste to throw the consumer to the dogs of the debt collecting industry. Have you ever considered why they sell these debts for so little? It's because they know they were always worth so little in the end. They have made their rake off for the duration of the account life and I am sure they have always known their agreements/application forms were legally dubious, it's just that 99% of consumers never read them properly. Well the 1%ers are manning the barricades and are giving the lenders a very bloody nose indeed.

 

 

Actually Rhia, it was to do with the banks reputation ( ) They could not afford ( Pre Cag of course) to be seen to be harrassing debtors, the publicity would be very bad. All the heavy and nasty stuff is left for the DCA's and done in the DCA's name so the bank didn't get a bad reputation or its' name dragged through the papers - that was up until the beginning of last year, now of course they can only look to themselves for the self generated publicity they have bought unto themselves - even Max Clifford couldn't have done it better ! - and all this publicity is FREE

[TideTurner]

Rippedoffagain, You off to London in your cruisers then?

 

Lookinforinfo, no there is not a legitimate interest. A contract is made between two or more parties, but this must be specified from the outset, and any such contract must contain TWO signatures (from both parties). The banks and many of these mickey mouse organisations have attempted (and are still attempting) to play on the fact that where a charge appears to be legitimate, is on a letterhead, and you are wrong, the lendor is quite within his rights to charge you additional, sometimes extortionate fees. Until now.

 

My major problem with this, is they prey on those who haven't the ability to defend themselves, or would readily give in rather than put up a fight. Not everyone's on the internet, and have access to this site, maybe 1 in 50, so they are creaming it for all it's worth.

 

But the word is spreading...

[lookinforinfo]

Lookinforinfo, no there is not a legitimate interest. A contract is made between two or more parties, but this must be specified from the outset, and any such contract must contain TWO signatures (from both parties).

I agree that two signatures are vital, but if you read some of the

ICO letters to members of our forum, that may not be considered as consent,

since it may not have been freely given.

But cannot agree with you on the legitimate interest. If I had just bought a

debt, I would be 100% certain that I had a legitimate interest in it.

 

 

The banks and many of these mickey mouse organisations have attempted (and are still attempting) to play on the fact that where a charge appears to be legitimate, is on a letterhead, and you are wrong, the lendor is quite within his rights to charge you additional, sometimes extortionate fees. Until now.

 

Not sure where I mentioned anything about charges? And I believe

neither the original lender nor the DCA can charge extortionate fees.

..

 

And the fact that many are reclaiming their bank charges is surely proof of that.

[Rhia]

Can you point us all to some of the ICO letters to forum members. Tried searching but it just throws up loads of different threads. Muchos gracias.

[elizabeth1]

I have lodged my complaint to ICO on precisely these grounds as well as the illegal sharing of data between companies without consent. ICO has just been back to me for more letters to show that I did try and sort this out directly with DCA, which of course I did.

All they have been able to stump up so far is a unreadable photocopy of the APPLICATION form (not an executed agreement) I have attempted to read this after scanning and increasing size and although it is still difficult to read nowhere does it say that data can be used except for lending decisions in regard to the application and to prevent fraud.

The ICO will be the key to all of this. The original lender is most definitely at fault for not dealing with the debt properly and its undue haste to throw the consumer to the dogs of the debt collecting industry. Have you ever considered why they sell these debts for so little? It's because they know they were always worth so little in the end. They have made their rake off for the duration of the account life and I am sure they have always known their agreements/application forms were legally dubious, it's just that 99% of consumers never read them properly. Well the 1%ers are manning the barricades and are giving the lenders a very bloody nose indeed.

 

 

Rhia - I take my hat off to you!!! My sentiments exactly!!!

 

I have been missing a couple of days and just peeking before going to bed - so I can catch up to where we all are etc.. - I keep coming back to the same question "why are these debts sold on etc.. - when these companies already have the legal teams to deal with these debts etc.."

 

WE HAVE THE ANSWER!!!

[TideTurner]

I agree that two signatures are vital, but if you read some of the

ICO letters to members of our forum, that may not be considered as consent,

since it may not have been freely given.

But cannot agree with you on the legitimate interest.

The ICO sent me a letter on Friday, and may be under scrutiny, as are the rest of the industry watchdogs.

 

If I had just bought a

debt, I would be 100% certain that I had a legitimate interest in it.

 

Damned right - and I'd make sure it was legal and there would be no come backs - and that nobody had been damaged or wronged, else I could expect the full hand of the law to come down on me.

Tide

[lookinforinfo]

 

The ICO sent me a letter on Friday, and may be under scrutiny, as are the rest of the industry watchdogs.

Maybe a bit too cryptic for me. Who is under scrutiny-Cabot,

the ICO; and if the ICO, who is scrutinising them and the other watchdogs?

 

If I had just bought a

debt, I would be 100% certain that I had a legitimate interest in it.

 

Damned right - and I'd make sure it was legal and there would be no come backs - and that nobody had been damaged or wronged, else I'd expect the full hand of the law to come down on me.

 

You are moving the goal posts TideTurner:D Whether they

buy the debt complete with the original debt or not, they still have a

legitimate interest in the debt. And that would be the case if they had

damaged or wronged that debtor too.

 

I suspect, but I may be wrong, that the reason these companies can pick up debts so cheaply could be partly because the original agreements are not

included.

[debt_mountain]

I suspect, but I may be wrong, that the reason these companies can pick up debts so cheaply could be partly because the original agreements are not

included.

 

Why do Trading Standards or the OFT not add a minimum requirement to the "hello" letter (what a lovely friendly name Cabot give to that letter), forcing the collector to include a copy of the agreement including T/Cs highlighting the legal right to share our data plus proof of the Default Notice they are relying on to beat us with for 6 years and a proof of sale from the original lender (or should this actually be sent by the original lender).

 

Oh was I in a dreamworld again there, if they had to do that then for the last 8 years 99% of DCA debts would not be collectable. Silly me.

 

It is nice to dream though and I think this is what is required for future debts.

 

I wonder if DCAs are buying dents more carefully in light of the 1%ers.

[rippedoffagain]

As I have said on another thread, me, my wife and my daughter all have credit cards with the same provider, and none of us remember signing anything. I have had two loans with them, and distinctly remember calling into a branch to sign agreements.

 

I must confess that not signing an agreement, did not appear odd to me at the time. In my case I contacted the bank on a different matter and at the end of the call, the young lady asked me if I wanted a Visa card, which was a surprise, as I still had an old ccj on my file, I said I didn't think they would let me have one, but she said that the system was telling her that they would.

 

So I said OK, a short time later the card arrived.

[FANTASY CHARGES]

I suspect, but I may be wrong, that the reason these companies can pick up debts so cheaply could be partly because the original agreements are not

included.

 

 

AS WE HAVE SAID BEFORE WE RECKON these debt are put into groups guessing at say 100 debts to form a portfolio [this is called securisation -- i might have spelllllllllttttt it wrongggggee](which spreads the risk and an average is worked out --- just as on sky sports theysay about footbaal players say fred bloggs has a 75 % pass completion rate ---

 

there will be stats to predict at what rate say !10% buying at face value what a typical return (befor cagers hit em !!!!!) would be for say cabot

 

 

now thinking about it due to the CAGER factor the % that is paid in future will drop making it less economical for the banks to sell !!l

W

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Yesterday, 21:58 #3834 (permalink) FANTASY CHARGES vbmenu_register("postmenu_620419", true);

Classic Account Customer

 

Join Date: Sep 2006

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Re: Consumer Credit Act Agreements

TERMINATOR JUST FOUND THAT BIT you mentioned

ABOUT ANY COMPANY involveD in a series of securitisation programmes by which A CREDIT CARD COMPANY deployed debts owing to it by its credit card holding customers on a rolling basis, for the purposes of raising working capital. HAS TO CHARGE VAT ON THE SECURITISATION leaving a nice little audit trail for the vatman

 

 

 

WHAT IAM SAYING HERE IS THAT THERE IS VAT CHARGEABLE ON THE SALE BY THE ORIGINAL OWNERS OF THESE SECURITISED DEBTS -- AN APPEAL COURT RULED IN FAVOUR OF HM TAXES LAST YEAR SO THEY LEAVE BEHIND A TRAIL IN THE ACCOUNTS !!!!!

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Now Are There Any Vat Implications If The Left Finger Of Cabot Transfers The Debts To The Right Finger ???

 

Answers Please

[Seahorse]

Not at all sure. How can Europe transfer cash to UK as they claim to be doing (acting as collecting agents?) Who holds the money in reality? If it's Europe, and they don't actually own the account, they are not entitled to the money. And if it's UK, then they should be receiving the cash, and paying Europe for their services in an intracompany type deal. How does all that work then?

[scouser9]

Tbern me old mate,

 

I have just started down the line with Cabot and started a new thread here at

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/72094-cabot-all-help-apprieciated.html#post621930

 

Can you have a browse for me please and let me know what you think, I have read your thread with interest as I knew I would be starting somewhere, so why not follow the best in class.

 

Thanks Mikey

 

Keep Claiming The Right

[tbern123]

Tbern me old mate,

 

I have just started down the line with Cabot and started a new thread here at

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/72094-cabot-all-help-apprieciated.html#post621930

 

Can you have a browse for me please and let me know what you think, I have read your thread with interest as I knew I would be starting somewhere, so why not follow the best in class.

 

Thanks Mikey

 

Keep Claiming The Right

 

Flattery will get you everywhere lol

 

Deb-Moutain, Andrew1 and the others where doing this before me and I have learnt a lot from them...

 

But, if I can help in anyway I will..

 

Can I take this opportunity to nominate a moto for the Cabot Fanclub ???

 

"Don't let the barstewards get you down"

[andrew1]

Flattery will get you everywhere lol

 

Deb-Moutain, Andrew1 and the others where doing this before me and I have learnt a lot from them...

 

But, if I can help in anyway I will..

 

Can I take this opportunity to nominate a moto for the Cabot Fanclub ???

 

"Don't let the barstewards get you down"

 

What were you saying about flattery tbern? Anyway, I think we might be able to come up with something a little more flattering for our friends than this moto if you don't mind me saying so. Whilst I agree entirely with the implied reference and its' implications upon us - I think we must find something unique and original as a Moto - they have earned it - and maybe they'll incorporate it into their letter-heads for Cabot Financial UK Ltd when they decide to start writing the odd letter. So, lets make it a good one Now I'm not going to start the bidding, but how about we nominate a few ideas on that which is no resemblance to the 'Crapbots' and the likes of the past. Keep it clean and funny but not insulting..... off you go ! Tell you what - how about 'Court Jesters'

[debt_mountain]

What were you saying about flattery tbern? Anyway, I think we might be able to come up with something a little more flattering for our friends than this moto if you don't mind me saying so. Whilst I agree entirely with the implied reference and its' implications upon us - I think we must find something unique and original as a Moto - they have earned it - and maybe they'll incorporate it into their letter-heads for Cabot Financial UK Ltd when they decide to start writing the odd letter. So, lets make it a good one Now I'm not going to start the bidding, but how about we nominate a few ideas on that which is no resemblance to the 'Crapbots' and the likes of the past. Keep it clean and funny but not insulting..... off you go ! Tell you what - how about 'Court Jesters'

How about "GIRUY" pronounced "Gurooi" and means "git it right up yi!!" a famous William Wallace chant I believe. What a lot of cac I type sometimes, and this is without a Guinness.

[WantJustice]

Now I'm not going to start the bidding, but how about we nominate a few ideas on that which is no resemblance to the 'Crapbots' and the likes of the past. Keep it clean and funny but not insulting..... off you go ! Tell you what - how about 'Court Jesters'

 

Within a letter heading? How about 'The Law's on our side- Honestly'

[Seahorse]

Just a thought. I know that "certain CAG members" are busy beavering away behind the scenes in order to keep things close to their collective chests (oooerrr, Missus) in the land of Cabot. If any of those unmentionable people would like a PRIVATE blog or whatever to enable them to put their heads together away from the public gaze, I'd be more than happy to set up an invitation only blog site to allow you to do that. Just PM me, and I'll drop you my email address. Obviously, not an offer for everybody, but I think those that I mean will know who I mean.

[elizabeth1]

"well dung !!!!"

 

yep!!! ME THINKS THEY IN PLENTY OF DUNG!!!! :D

[andrew1]

What have I started? :o I did say try and keep it clean ...sorry tbern seemed to have got a hijack going .. lets keep this on thread....

[tbern123]

What have I started? :o I did say try and keep it clean ...sorry tbern seemed to have got a hijack going .. lets keep this on thread....

 

lol don't worry about it... I have nothing to post about at the moment. Shock horror surprise Cabot have ignored my previous email, unless I hear from them, I will be submitting my new POC on Saturday.

 

I have made contact with the ICO, OFT, my local Trading Standards and I have even sent an email to the Sunday Mail. If Cabot force my hand I will make my complaints official.

 

I have something up my sleve, but I don't want to post it yet and tip my hand..

 

But if this was to go to court, they are going to be in for a wake up call.