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BR4 vs BLACK HORSE


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Hi all...

 

Had four previous loans with black horse... the first was in 2000. Every time i wanted to increase the loan, they just gave me a new larger one to pay off th old... now owe over 5 grand.

 

Anyway, the very first time i applied for a loan with them, i had to go to their office. I asked for 2000 pound, but they refused and said they are really sorry but we will give you a cheque for 1000 right now... being desperate i took it.

Even though i explained i already had insurance cover, they insisted i had to have their own insurance, or i would not get the loan. And i was desperate...

 

Every time i renewed my loan i was never asked about PPI... they just filled out te form for me and asked me to visit them. When i visit, i signed one form and the cash was in my bank next day.

 

I have now got all my old agreements from black horse.

 

On these agreements... on the left of the page...

Amount of credit - 1000

Interest rate per month - 3.43% APR 49.9%

Monthly repayments 62.84

 

Total charge for credit 633.84

Total payable amount 1633.84

No of monthly repayments 26

 

NOW ON THE RIGHT OF THE PAGE....

Cash price of PPI 188.24

Amount of credit 188.24

Interest per month 3.43% apr 49.9%

monthly repayments 11.06

 

Total charge for credit 99.32

Total amount payable 287.56

No of monthly repayments 26

 

NOW AT THE BOTTOM OF PAGE...

Total monthly payment 73.90

 

 

I remember it clearly, she didnt run through the ppi cost at all... just told me all i hve to do is sign here and i get 1000 quid, paying back 73.90 per month.

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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hi,im in the same boat as you with bh,im in the process of claiming back with 2 other compnies so when there out of the way im gonna have a go at black horse,i was never told anything about the ppi only were to sign,cant believe i was so stupid,but when you need money sense goes out the window.

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yea, going to print off the prelim letter...

 

i just dont really know how much i am entitled to claim for... can i claim all 4 previous accounts? or just the current one?

 

Also, what is the amount to claim?

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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I would claim on all 4 loans, Black Horse are notorious for that type of behavour, after all they are part of my Favourite bank.. Lloyds..lol. I once was desperate enough or was it daft enough to get a loan from them to buy some urgently required sound equipment..No mention of PPI initially, just £1000 will cost you so much a week, sign here. Now thinking about it I have not looked into that loan as such... I can feel another SAR getting fired off..lol. Then I may take them on too once I get finished with GE Money who are taking up my time at the momment..

 

Good luck and if you need help Just shout

 

Ian

Lloyds TSB -PPI - Full refund . 05/09/06 :D:p (As Seen on TV) :p

Halifax settled in Full.. :D 22/09/06

TSB First Claim SETTLED IN FULL 19/10/06 :D

Second Claim to Lloyds TSB - Settled in Full

Firstplus - early settlement interest charges - Challenged the use of the rule of 78 - SETTLED IN FULL 12/1/07

PPI - GE Money / Purpleloans / Firstplus - Now Settled after 1 year long hard fight.

 

 

 

If my post has helped you, please click the scales! :grin:

 

Anything said is my opinion and how I understand the law, always consult professional legal advice before taking something to court.

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ok ian... i'm shouting!!!

 

i already got a sar from them, and have started reclaiming charges... come to think of it, LBA due on monday...

 

the details i got from them are not very clear, and i'm struggling to understand exactly what i should be claiming back...

i understand what to claim for charges... but the ppi is confusing.... any help much appreciated

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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ok ian... i'm shouting!!!

 

i already got a sar from them, and have started reclaiming charges... come to think of it, LBA due on monday...

 

the details i got from them are not very clear, and i'm struggling to understand exactly what i should be claiming back...

i understand what to claim for charges... but the ppi is confusing.... any help much appreciated

 

NOW ON THE RIGHT OF THE PAGE....

Cash price of PPI 188.24

Amount of credit 188.24

Interest per month 3.43% apr 49.9%

monthly repayments 11.06 I presume X 26months

Total charge for credit 99.32

Total amount payable 287.56 That is the charge for ppi

No of monthly repayments 26

 

I think you go for £287.56 for your refund. Try and charge them interest from when they had you money.

 

Good luck

If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW

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ok, will use th same interest rate they charged me at the date of the signed agreement...

 

thanks

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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Ok, how am i going to calculate interest? The above example was 49.9%... but how do i calculate it back to august 2000? it will end up being a ridiculous amount i think.... doesnt seem right...

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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Ok, how am i going to calculate interest? The above example was 49.9%... but how do i calculate it back to august 2000? it will end up being a ridiculous amount i think.... doesnt seem right...

 

Hello, It is a ridulous amount.

 

I have used this spereadsheet.

 

http://www.cag-files.co.uk/barracad/...arges-calc.xls

 

 

there are 3 parts to it (Sorry if you know this already)

1. your details acount no dates etc. Fill that in then scroll down to the lt hand side and click on the tab charges and interest put in the fee for ppi £287.66. scrll down again and click on the 8% interest tab. It will show you that the 8% interest from 8/2000. £151.96. If you look up to the right hand corner you can change the interest rate to yours(or the nearest roundoff) and whow:eek: holy crumbs about £930.74 at 49%.

 

In my honest opinion, I don't know if you will get anywhere with that amount of interest, but it is worth starting of at that amount and then negociate(spelt wrong I know) for maybe less.

 

If it gets to court you will be able to claime the 8% statuatory interest of £151.96 plus you full ppi refund. £539.62. Still not bad :D

If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW

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so from the example amounts i gave... it would be 287.56 ppi plus 924.25 interest at 49.9% (from 25/8/00)

Total 1211.81

 

Then 187.93 ppi plus 118.96 interest at 1.9% (from 28/11/03) TOTAL 306.89

 

Then 427.80 ppi plus 225.21 interest at 16.9% (from 22/12/03) TOTAL 653.01

 

Then 959.40 ppi plus 442.44 interest at 16.9% (from 11/5/04) TOTAL 1401.84

 

Then 834.40 ppi plus 301.58 interest at 18.9% (from 5/3/05) TOTAL 1135.98

 

Grand Total = 4709.53

 

That right???

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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surely thats not right????

i wouldnt feel comfortable defending that in court....

what do i do>?

please help?

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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bump

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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Policy numbers - xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx

 

I believe I have been mis-sold a payment protection insurance policy and would like to request a full refund of my premiums, plus interest paid.

 

I have taken out 5 previous loan agreements, including my current agreement, at your Ashford, Kent branch the first being on 25/08/00 and also bought a payment protection policy which would cost me extra over the life of the loan. The total amount of my premiums plus interest is £4815.25. A breakdown of this is shown below.

Date Loan Amount PPI Cost APR % Interest Total

25/08/00 £1000 £287.56 49.9% £950.59 £1238.15

25/11/03 £1000 £187.92 19.9% £125.81 £313.73

22/12/03 £1700 £427.80 16.9% £238.49 £666.29

11/05/04 £3000 £959.40 16.9% £472.20 £1431.60

05/03/05 £5000 £834.80 18.9% £330.68 £1165.48

When I took out the loan, I was told that my application would be refused if I did not also buy a PPI policy. The Financial Services Authority’s advice to consumers is that, while it does not breach FSA guidelines, a borrower should not be refused a loan if they choose not to buy an insurance policy.

I also told your salesperson that I had adequate insurance cover through a separate income protection policy.

In forcing me to buy this policy, you have also breached paragraph 8.6 of the Banking Code, to which you are a signatory.

I do not believe being forced to buy this policy as part of the loan was a fair and reasonable obligation as I did not need this insurance and said at the time of taking the loan that I did not want it.

I am requesting a full refund of all my insurance payments, plus interest, which total £4815.25.

If I do not receive a favourable response from you I will pursue this claim through the Financial Ombudsman.

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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is that ok anyone???

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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Share on other sites

so from the example amounts i gave... it would be 287.56 ppi plus 924.25 interest at 49.9% (from 25/8/00)

Total 1211.81

 

Then 187.93 ppi plus 118.96 interest at 1.9% (from 28/11/03) TOTAL 306.89

 

Then 427.80 ppi plus 225.21 interest at 16.9% (from 22/12/03) TOTAL 653.01

 

Then 959.40 ppi plus 442.44 interest at 16.9% (from 11/5/04) TOTAL 1401.84

 

Then 834.40 ppi plus 301.58 interest at 18.9% (from 5/3/05) TOTAL 1135.98

 

Grand Total = 4709.53

 

That right???

 

Hello,

 

Sorry I did not totally understand the above post. I have since read your thread again from the beginning and I realise you are claiming for the ppi applied to 4-5 loans, so I understand how you arrived at your total figure. I could not get my head around how you managed to get £287.56 with interest of 49.9% to £4,700 plus, but I do understand now.

 

Your letter seems OK. You are stating that you feel you were not given a option of having a ppi.

 

I added thes points:

 

 

When I took the loan/loans with your company, I was not offered a full and detailed explanation of payment protection insurance and was led to believe by your company/representative that it was part of the conditions of the loan. I have thought that for the last five years and more. It has only become apparent to me after the recent coverage by the media, and following the recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of ppi by finance companies.. This is when I requested the Subject Access Request.

Regarding the loans with the ppi applied, I believe I that I have been gravely mis-led by your company at a time when I was facing financial difficulties and have been mis-sold this expensive insurances that I did not need or want.. At the time of this application I was in full-time employment with no risk of redundancy ,a fully paid salary for 6months of sickness, had a generous life insurance and critical illness insurance policies..

 

I am therefore writing to ask you to refund the premiums paid together with interest equal to your APR at the time under the accepted principle of mutuality and reciprocity.

 

Your responsibilities

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK Law.

 

Firstly, I understand that at the time I entered into the loan/loans contract with you your Company was running an incentive scheme to encourage your employees to sell PPI schemes, as were several other High Street Finance Companies and High Street Banks.

 

No attempt was made to ascertain if the product provided was fit for purpose, suitable for my needs or if I indeed it at all. No inquiry was made as whether I had pre-existing insurance for accident, illness or unemployment I was not given a copy of the insurance policy. I am not aware of which Company the insurance policy is with, nor were any rights to cancel explained. I believe you manifestly failed in your fiduciary responsibilities, your duty of care.

 

Secondly, I understand under the Consumer Credit Acts and following a House of Lords judgment, that you are not allowed to make a loan conditional on taking PPI unless you include the costs of PPI as part of the charge for credit and not the credit itself.

 

You did not do this. You added it to the total for credit and then charged me further interest on the premium on top of the interest for the loan. This is unacceptable.

 

Finally I believe insurance contracts are contracts uberrimae fidei (contracts of the utmost good faith) which imposes on you a “duty of disclosure of all material facts because one party is in a strong position to know the truth.” Inter alia, . I believe you should have made it clear to me that the policy generated large profits for you and very little for me. You failed to do this. I believe that you have also therefore failed in your duty of disclosure. Your failure to disclose is misrepresentation at common law.

 

What I require

 

Your concealment of the act of mis-selling has prevented me from asserting my right until now. I believe that there are strong grounds for action against you under common law, statute and consumer regulations.

 

 

 

 

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets. I will give you 14 days and 14days only to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive these payments.

 

OPTIONALto add to letter

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that this time frame is sufficient for a large company such as yours with its dedicated staff and departments. After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a legal claim at the expiry of the second deadline. or pursue through the FOS

 

Yours faithfully,

Good luck

If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW

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ok, thanks for the advice....

will keep you posted...

 

I have printed the letter ready for tomorrow... but just noticed, there is no timescale on the letter... shall i just leave it for 14 days and hope for some sort of response? and if nothing, send a LBA?

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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ok, thanks for the advice....

will keep you posted...

 

I have printed the letter ready for tomorrow... but just noticed, there is no timescale on the letter... shall i just leave it for 14 days and hope for some sort of response? and if nothing, send a LBA?

 

 

Hello,

 

You had best give them your timescale, or they won't take it seriously and get back to you in there own time, the year blah.

 

Thats if they respond at all, you have to keep at them:D

If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW

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  • 1 year later...

Hi everyone...

 

Well its been a year since i first started pursuing this! Partly my fault, forgetting about it when i didnt get a response... anyway, i sent another letter 3 weeks ago, and today recieved a reply!!!

 

'Following reciept of your application, the agreement document was sent to your home address for your completion and return. These were duly returned to us signed by you. The agreement document you have signed clearly shows the amount being borrowed, the interest payable together with the cost of the optional Payment Protection Policy you had elected to purchase.'

 

Now let me translate that to what really happened... The first loan i got from them i apllied for over the phone. They said i would have to go and visit them to go through the paperwaork. I asked for £2000, i filled out forms, the lady disappeared for 10 mins, came back and said i could have £1000 as a cheque and take it away today. I stupidly agreed. She started asking if i want any insurance, and when i said no, i was told i MUST have some form of their insurance or i could not have the loan. Whilst waving a £1000 cheque in front of me, she signed me up to their lowest form of insurance, which i then signed.

 

Since then, i have re-loaned a further 4 times (yes, 4!). Each time, i phoned them up and asked for more money on my loan. They arrange for me to visit them again, sort the paperwork and i sign. Each time i re-loaned they never went through the PPI with me, they just set up exactly the same as i already had, but for more money.

 

They have also sent me copies of the credit agreements, which are signed by me. I have to admit, they do show the PPI amounts. But i never really looked. All i looked at was the seperate box placed strategically in the centre of the page, showing how much i pay per month.

 

'Prior to entering this agreement with us, you were required to undertake a Demands and Needs questionnaire on agreement xxxxxxxxx. This enabled us to establish your requirements and suitability for Payment Protection Insurance. Based upon the answers you gave us, we recommended Life level of cover. please find enclosed a copy of the questionnaire you undertook.'

 

This statement is regarding the last loan i took with them in March 2005. Now i honestly don't remember if i done a questionnaire or not, but it looks a bit suspicious to say the least.

Its been printed out, theres no signatures or ticks by me. Here are the questions....

 

1. How old will you be at the end of the agreement

29

2. Are you emplyed, self-employed or not working?

EMPLOYED

3. Would you like your payments to be paid for you, whilst you are unable to work as a result of an accident or sickness for more than 30 consecutive days?

NO

4. Would you like your payments to be paid for you, whilst you are involuntarily unemployed and remain so for more than 30 consecutive days?

NO

5. Would you like your outstanding balance to be paid off if you were diagnosed as suffering from a critical illness?

NO

6. Do you have any type of insurance that would specifically provide cover for the repayment of this agreement?

NO

7. Have you sought or recieved medical treatment for any condition over the last 24 months?

NO

 

It then goes on to say... 'The answers you have provided to the above questions have enabled us to to recommend that the following level of cover is suitable for your needs: LIFE '

 

There is then a box below this sayin 'Purchase of Recommended Cover, you agree to our personal recommendation.' And the box has an 'x' in it.

 

 

At the end of their letter, they say...

'In the absence of any documentary evidence in support of your claim, i regret to advise that we are unable to uphold your claim that the PPI was mis-sold. As your agreement with us is now settled and you have had the benefit of cover for the period of your agreement, no refund of the sums paid for PPI will be made to you.'

 

My fingers ache after all this typing, so please... someone... help me out here.... I could take a pic of the letters and send to you if it helps...

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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Even if this questionnaire is real... why did they only decide to do it on my last loan? what about the four previous loans? How did they determine what level of insurance i should of had!?

Just looking at the credit agreements again, and the level of insurance changed... the 1st loan cover level was 'SSS' (whatever that meant), the 2nd loan cover level was Life, Accident, Sickness, Invol Unemploy. The 3rd was Life, Accident, Sickness, Invol Unemploy. The 4th was Life, Accident, Sickness, Invol Unemploy. The 5th and final loan cover was just LIFE.

 

I was young and very naive, and just kept on taking the loans, not knowing how much the PPI was costing. But... it IS on the agreement. Does this mean i can't claim a penny, because i was stupid enough to sign without fully reading and understanding?

I just assumed everything was the same from the very first loan (at which time i was told i had to have the cover).

 

Please help.

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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C'mon someone!!! Please help me... i really do not know what to do next. They ask for documentary evidence, which i dont have. They have the credit agreement ther in black and white, signed by me....

 

What do i do???

 

reidnet, hellhasnofury... i need your help please...

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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C'mon someone!!! Please help me... i really do not know what to do next. They ask for documentary evidence, which i dont have. They have the credit agreement ther in black and white, signed by me....

 

What do i do???

 

reidnet, hellhasnofury... i need your help please...

 

Hello Br4ndy

 

First thing to do is don't panic, :D

 

Let me get the jist of what you are saying and please correct me if I have got it wrong:oops:

 

They have sent you all of your credit agreements which contain the ppi,

 

They have sent you a needs and demand statement for the last loan, stating that you just need life cover. was it signed and dated. You have state that you can't remember seeing this statement. Please clarify

If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW

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yes, confirmed...

the needs and demand statement looked like a computer print out, and is NOT SIGNED/DATED. I do not remember seeing this at all...

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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I just don't know what to do next... I feel as though the PPI was mis-sold... but they do have a point when the credit agreement says it all, and was signed by me. I just wish they had explained it fully rather than expect me to read and understand it...

 

What do i do next??? Give up???

Br4ndy VS HSBC

11th Dec - Prelim sent for 2907.42

29th Dec - LBA sent

12th Jan - Offer Recieved 2,500

15th Jan - Offer accepted :D

 

MyWife vs HSBC

5th Jan - Prelim sent for 1653.23

20th Jan - LBA Sent

7th Feb - Offer Recieved 1,350

8th Feb - Offer accepted :D

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