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Argos - what a bunch of jokers


jampot
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I purchased a PS3 from them back in Jan and was surprised that they billed my card so early, unlike everywhere else which planned to bill on dispatch... but I let that lie.

 

What I didn't know is that "we" had already ordered a PS3 from elsewhere :lol: so the Argos one was to be cancelled and returned.

 

Console was dispatched and received on 23rd March. Sometime prior to 28th March I emailed (using their own web form) stating that I wished to return the console and could they let me know the arrangements. On 28th March, I received a response saying that it wasn't eligible for a return...

 

Obviously the immediately got my back up, so I sent a swift reply quoting the Distance Selling Regs which they post on their own website. Needless to say, I got an apologetic response on 31st March, accepting my rights to return it, and making it clear that I should take it to a store where they would check it through, if necessary phone for authorisation, and issue a refund.

 

I would have prefered them to collect it, but instead til the earliest opportunity (lunch time today) and went armed with the (still sealed) parcel to the Welwyn branch, where I received the biggest run-around I've ever witnessed.

 

The store refused to take it back, and despite phonecalls to "store support" and to the internet team, stuck to their guns. After much standing around, when they realised I wasn't actually going to leave until it was sorted, they made lousy arrangements for a home collection (I'm not at home, so that won't work) for Tuesday... but it is now beyond that.

 

I'm about to phone their internet enquiry line for myself and make a very strong series of points, ending in a demand for:

 

a) an apology

b) compensation for wasting my time

c) an internal review of their staff training

 

Let's see how far I get. I'll probably follow up with a strong letter / email. Decided I'm not going to let this drop - I can't stand companies that try to ride roughshod over a consumer's statutory rights!!!

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I doubt it would make a profit, whilst the Nintendo Wii still commands a premium 6 months after launch!

 

I phoned their 0870 number, initially to complain, but in fairness the girl who answered the phone wasn't the person to shout at, so I simply asked her to raise an urgent complaint against the branch, and got details of who to email / write to to put a formal complaint in. She agreed it was shocking service, so (quite rightly) isn't in my crosshairs... I'll save it for the people who have caused this mess.

 

I've just written a very stern email, explaining exactly what happened, exactly how I was treated and made to feel, and set out what I want them to do next.

 

I've also pointed them towards MY obligations under the DSA -

 

"When consumers exercise their right to cancel they are under a duty to take reasonable care of the goods and to “restore” them to the supplier. The term “restore” does not permit the supplier to demand that the consumer send back or deliver the goods, but only that the goods are made available to the supplier for collection. "

 

I've pointed out that I've taken every reasonable step to restore their goods - I took them into one of their branches and handed them to a member of their staff at their express direction (and was given them back)... so I'm certainly not bound to sit and waste my entire day waiting for a courier.

 

I'd love them to send the branch manageress round to collect it personally...

 

But in the meantime, I've given them 14 days to issue my refund (whether they've collected their goods or not) after which I'll test out exactly how strong the Distance Selling laws are...

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They've 30 days to refund you under the DSRs, from the day that you cancelled the contract mind you.

 

I do think that you were badly misinformed by the online store, and the treatment after this was pretty appalling too.

 

Let us know what happens next...

Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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They've 30 days to refund you under the DSRs, from the day that you cancelled the contract mind you.

 

I do think that you were badly misinformed by the online store, and the treatment after this was pretty appalling too.

 

Let us know what happens next...

 

I'd have to check when the contract was cancelled - as it was done on their website, I know it must be BEFORE 28th, as that is when they replied saying "No." initially...

 

I'm guessing it was the 26th, so if they haven't refunded by the 24th of April, I will go after them with a sharp stick.

 

I can see why people back down and don't stand up to these people though... but wearing an "Argos" badge and a red sweatshirt doesn't bestow any more authority or make that person "right".

 

I've asked for an apology from the E-Commerce team and from the branch. They'd better be humble and grovelling.

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Rosie, I wonder if you could advise further.

 

Argos are really playing silly buggers over this now. They sent a courier on Tuesday (I wasn't home) and as far as I know, my complaint about the store has been passed to a different department.

 

I emailed them again yesterday, pointing out that it was useless them sending a courier when I'd already told them I wouldn't be there - and that they could collect on an evening or weekend, or (by special arrangement) send the local store manager around to collect, and hand-delivery her own apology in person (!) I also pointed out that, as I'd officially cancelled the contract within the 7 day cooling off period, I was entitled to my refund within 30 days whether or not they'd had their goods returned. I consider that driving to the nearest store (as was their suggestion) and hand delivering the goods to a member of their staff was certainly "making every effort to restore their goods" - and offering to be available on an evening or weekend for their courier was also acceptable.

 

I received an email back from them today:

 

"I am sorry but your refund will not be issued on the item until it is returned to us. As the goods were returned to the store out of the 7 days a collection was only made as a good will gesture. We can only collect the item at the times given to you not on weekends or evenings so please contact on the number below and this can be arranged again.

 

Should you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us at [email protected] or call us on 0870 600 2020."

 

They have completely missed the point regarding the 7 days. It is my understanding that my obligation is to CANCEL within 7 days, and that a return of the goods should follow afterwards, and a refund within 30 days. They are insisting that I should have RETURNED the goods within 7 days.

 

I've mailed them already:

 

"

Which part of the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 aren't you understanding?

I am under NO obligation to return the goods to the store, and certainly not within the "7 day" period.

I am allowed 7 days in which to terminate the order (which I did) at which point it is my duty to make the goods available for you to collect or, as I followed your own instructions, hand deliver them to a place of your choice. I should stress, once again, that AT NO POINT in the DSR does it state that the goods must be returned within 7 days. Simply that I should advise you WITHIN 7 DAYS of my intention to cancel the order. It could take 1 day, 1 month or even 1 year for the goods to be returned once the order is cancelled - but providing I notify you of my intention to cancel within 7 days, and assist you in getting back the goods, I am fulfilling my side of the agreement. By refusing to take them off me when I hand deliver them, you are obviously not helping yourselves...

I have received conflicting and duff information from you throughout this whole debacle, and your mistaken attempts at "Customer Service" are frankly laughable.

I am simply not in during the day for your courier to collect. Goods cannot reliably be collected from my place of work, either.

I have tried to hand deliver the goods myself, using MY time and MY expense, having been directed specifically to do so.

Can you please give me the full name and contact details of:

a) who to escalate this complaint to

b) who to serve LBA paperwork on in the event that it isn't resolved

Your email still doesn't clarify why I was asked to take the goods to a store, and once I arrived there, was told that this wasn't acceptable. Had your store simply taken the item off me and issued an immediate refund, Argos wouldn't currently be in this mess.

Providing you agree to pay me for a 1/2 day's holiday (I'm employeed as a contractor on a daily rate, so can issue you paperwork to confirm how much this would be) I will take 1/2 day off work and stay in for your courier to collect. Or I will be available during a weekend or evening. I can't (for obvious reasons) visit my local XXXXXX store to return this item, as I don't want to receive the same treatment I had last time.

I do not need to remind you what the penalties can be for blatantly riding roughshod over a consumer's statutory rights. I suggest you take proper legal advice from the relevant department, and contact me again with a proper way forward.

Can you also let me know where my store complaint has reached - who is dealing with it and when I can expect a response?

Thank you,

"

 

Can you advise if there is anything more I should add at this stage? Am I unreasonable to now refuse to make the goods available between the hours of 9am and 5pm, having trekked over to a store and received such bad treatment? Couriers do operate on evenings and weekends, so I don't think it unreasonable to suggest they collect during those times - do you agree?

 

For a variety of reasons, I don't want to leave the package with a neighbour and have it collected from there, I don't want it collected from my office, and am not prepared to take it to a courier myself. I think I've done enough already...

 

Am I on solid ground with this one?

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It does depend on what is said on the website t&c's - if they say you have to return the item then it is up to you - if they make no mention of who is responsible for returning the item to Argos then it is up to them at a time convenient for you.

 

Have you tried contacting your cc company, as it's over £100 you have extra protection from them. State that you have rejected the goods and that Argos are now over the 30 day period for refunding you. Tell them that unless they issue a refund you will be naming them as joint defendants in a claim.

 

I would then write (proper letter not email) to Argos giving them 14 days to refund your money or you will begin court action without further notice. If it does get to the claims stage put both Argos and your cc company as the defendants - they will settle v quickly.

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Thanks BS.

 

A quick check on their website says:

 

"Under the Distance Selling Regulations, you have a right to cancel your order for any item purchased on this website for a full refund. This does not apply to items personalised or made to your specification; audio/video recordings or software that you have unsealed; items such as earrings and cosmetics that, by reason of their nature, cannot be returned; perishable goods (e.g. food and flowers), and periodicals/magazines.

 

To cancel, you can email us or write to us (see contact us for details) within seven working days* of delivery of your item(s), quoting your order number. You must take reasonable care of the item(s) and must not use them. Item(s) may be returned to an Argos store, or we can arrange collection free of charge.

 

You may cancel an order for services in the same way, within seven working days* of the date of purchase, unless the services begin sooner. You may not cancel accommodation, transport or leisure services which occur on a specific date. The Distance Selling Regulations do not apply to Financial and Insurance Services."

 

To recap, I wrote to them within the 7 days expressing my wish to cancel the order. The initial reply was "You can't". I mailed them back saying "Yes I can" and they agreed, but told me it had to be taken to a store.

 

I took it to a store, was greeted by a very rude duty manageress who kept me waiting for as long as she could, including 1 15 minute stretch when she made some phonecalls, before coming back to me and saying they wouldn't take the item back, but could arrange collection.

 

They've now tried to collect, but I'd already informed them I wouldn't be in.

 

So what I'm saying is - by taking reasonable measures to return their goods to them (following their specific directions to return to a store) I've fulfilled my obligations, and don't have to sit around waiting for a courier to collect.

 

Their website says either return to a store, or they will collect for free. I've tried the first method, using my time, expense and effort, and it didn't work - so can I legitimately refuse to wait around for their courier calling at a time of THEIR convenience (not mine) or should I stand my ground and make them do this under my terms?

 

If they'd taken it back instore, as they were supposed to do, we wouldn't be having this argument. But now we are, I don't particularly want to back down and whilst I'm happy to waste time writing emails and letters, I'm certainly not taking unpaid time off work, or leaving the goods in an unsecured location for them to collect.

 

They haven't breached the 30 days (yet) - but their last email was pretty clear. If they haven't got their goods back before the 30 days are up, I won't get my refund.

 

I guess the bottom line is - just how "reasonable" do I have to be in my measures to restore their goods to them - considering I've already taken them to a store and been met with a flat refusal?

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Send them a letter stating that if you have not received a full refund within 30 days as is your rights set out in the distance selling regs that you will begin court action to regain your money. Remind them that you have only to make the item available to them and it is their duty to refund within 30 days irrelevant of them having collected the item.

 

Recovery of sums paid by or on behalf of the consumer on cancellation, and return of security

14. - (1) On the cancellation of a contract under regulation 10, the supplier shall reimburse any sum paid by or on behalf of the consumer under or in relation to the contract to the person by whom it was made free of any charge, less any charge made in accordance with paragraph (5).

 

(2) The reference in paragraph (1) to any sum paid on behalf of the consumer includes any sum paid by a creditor who is not the same person as the supplier under a personal credit agreement with the consumer.

 

(3) The supplier shall make the reimbursement referred to in paragraph (1) as soon as possible and in any case within a period not exceeding 30 days beginning with the day on which the notice of cancellation was given.

 

Oh and regarding returning it to them

 

4) The consumer shall not be under any duty to deliver the goods except at his own premises and in pursuance of a request in writing, or in another durable medium available and accessible to the consumer, from the supplier and given to the consumer either before, or at the time when, the goods are collected from those premises.

 

(5) If the consumer -

 

    (a) delivers the goods (whether at his own premises or elsewhere) to any person to whom, under regulation 10(1), a notice of cancellation could have been given; or
     
    (b) sends the goods at his own expense to such a person,
     

he shall be discharged from any duty to retain possession of the goods or restore them to the supplier.

 

(6) Where the consumer delivers the goods in accordance with paragraph (5)(a), his obligation to take care of the goods shall cease; and if he sends the goods in accordance with paragraph (5)(b), he shall be under a duty to take reasonable care to see that they are received by the supplier and not damaged in transit, but in other respects his duty to take care of the goods shall cease when he sends them.

 

(7) Where, at any time during the period of 21 days beginning with the day notice of cancellation was given, the consumer receives such a request as is mentioned in paragraph (4), and unreasonably refuses or unreasonably fails to comply with it, his duty to retain possession and take reasonable care of the goods shall continue until he delivers or sends the goods as mentioned in paragraph (5), but if within that period he does not receive such a request his duty to take reasonable care of the goods shall cease at the end of that period.

 

 

 

 

If I'm reading it right the last part says that if they have made no formal request to collect the goods after 21 days then you no longer have to look after them.

 

 

 

I'd send it recorded delivery to head office - they will take a bit more notice.

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Well, what I want to press for is a full and prompt refund of the money I've paid, plus them to collect the console at a time agreeable to ME. Not their courier.

 

From what you've posted there, they may have shot themselves completely in the foot, and managed to lose any claim to the goods whatsoever...

 

They directed me to return them to a store. I did so. That the person in store refused to acknowledge my right to do this, and refused to accept the goods back into the company isn't my problem. I fully complied with their "reasonable" request under section (5).

 

Accordingly, I'm now discharged from my duty to retain possession etc etc.

 

No?

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It seems to imply that, although that may be more pointed towards inertia selling (you get sent something you didn't order and billed if don't return it). However irrelevant to that they have 30 days from cancelation of contract to refund you. Give your cc company a call and ask for a chargeback and tell them if they refuse they will be named as defendants once 30 days has passed. Write the letter to Argos and on the 30 days issue the claim.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just a quick update...

 

I wrote a strong letter towards the end of April, and sent a copy to both Argos and my Credit Card company. I also contacted the CC company by phone to let them know of the dispute.

 

The letter to Argos didn't arrive. Nor did the copy I sent a week later. I finally resent a THIRD TIME and it was signed for this morning...

 

So I'm currently waiting for a response.

 

I've given them 7 days to fix this bloody mess, issue a couple of apologies, and sort of the refund which should have occured with 30 days of me cancelling the order.

 

I've also given them 7 days in which to arrange collection at a mutually agreeable time, although by rights the goods now appear to be mine... but the object was never "betterment" - simply that Argos do things properly - but having directed me to return the goods to a store, then refuse to accept them, and waste my time in arguing with the store manager, then suggest it is reasonable for me to give up a full 1/2 day of work, just so they could collect their goods... no chance.

 

I've not had an acknowledgement from my credit card company yet - although the transaction now does show as a "dispute" on my credit card, so I'm not being charged interest on it - but it still isn't a refund.

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They can have it back, providing they refund me FIRST, and collect it at a time that is agreeable to me - that's all I've been pushing for, really - that and a few apologies for the way they've dealt with the whole issue. I'm quite happy with my Xbox 360... ;)

 

I had a voicemail left from someone working in the Managing Director's Office this morning, so I've just politely called them back and advised that I have neither the time nor the inclination to chat about it on the phone - as far as I'm concerned, my complaint is serious enough for them to address in writing - exactly as I have done.

 

At least I now know someone is prepared to listen, and my complaint has reached the Executive Office. Hopefully they'll get a response out to me today or Monday and still meet the 7 day deadline they were given.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yeah...

 

I had a recorded delivery reply from one of the PA's of homeretailgroup's Executive Office.

 

She missed the point completely, offered no apology, failed to acknowledge any of the points I'd put across in my letter, and politely offered the chance to send the PS3 to their Executive Office, at which point they'd check the seals to make sure it was unused, then issue a refund plus £5 for the postage. My response was rather emphatic:

 

Ms XXXXXXXXX,

 

 

 

I'm in receipt of your letter dated 15th May 2007.

 

 

 

I am at a loss to understand how, having admitted that you are in receipt of my letter dated 4th May, you have apparently failed to note or acknowledge any of the key points contained therein.

 

 

 

I thank you for the opportunity to spend even more of my time and energy in taking the console to a Post Office, paying the estimated £20 postage, then awaiting a refund and a further £5 contribution towards the postage, but I'm afraid I must decline. Considering the sequence of events so far, I do not consider that to be a reasonable request. You will note that, in my letter, I made no such request (to be allowed to post the console to you) so I'm confused as to your wording.

 

 

 

In my letter dated 4th May, you will note that I fully outlined the position that we are in, relative to your obligations under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000.

 

 

 

Under the terms of these regulations, and following the cancellation of this order under the terms of the CP(DS)R 2000, the retailer MUST refund the consumer's money as soon as possible and, at the latest, within 30 days of receiving the written notice of cancellation. As the written notice of cancellation was received by Argos on 28th March, Argos have ALREADY breached the terms of these regulations. Please note, the issue of a refund is a totally separate matter to the return of the goods.

 

 

 

Under the same regulations, let me remind you (once again) of MY responsibility:

 

 

 

Restoration of goods by consumer after cancellation

17. - (1) This regulation applies where a contract is cancelled under regulation 10 after the consumer has acquired possession of any goods under the contract other than any goods mentioned in regulation 13(1)(b) to (e).

 

(2) The consumer shall be treated as having been under a duty throughout the period prior to cancellation -

 

(a) to retain possession of the goods, and

 

(b) to take reasonable care of them.

 

(3) On cancellation, the consumer shall be under a duty to restore the goods to the supplier in accordance with this regulation, and in the meanwhile to retain possession of the goods and take reasonable care of them.

 

(4) The consumer shall not be under any duty to deliver the goods except at his own premises and in pursuance of a request in writing, or in another durable medium available and accessible to the consumer, from the supplier and given to the consumer either before, or at the time when, the goods are collected from those premises.

 

(5) If the consumer -

 

(a) delivers the goods (whether at his own premises or elsewhere) to any person to whom, under regulation 10(1), a notice of cancellation could have been given; or

 

(b) sends the goods at his own expense to such a person,

 

he shall be discharged from any duty to retain possession of the goods or restore them to the supplier.

 

(6) Where the consumer delivers the goods in accordance with paragraph (5)(a), his obligation to take care of the goods shall cease; and if he sends the goods in accordance with paragraph (5)(b), he shall be under a duty to take reasonable care to see that they are received by the supplier and not damaged in transit, but in other respects his duty to take care of the goods shall cease when he sends them.

 

(7) Where, at any time during the period of 21 days beginning with the day notice of cancellation was given, the consumer receives such a request as is mentioned in paragraph (4), and unreasonably refuses or unreasonably fails to comply with it, his duty to retain possession and take reasonable care of the goods shall continue until he delivers or sends the goods as mentioned in paragraph (5), but if within that period he does not receive such a request his duty to take reasonable care of the goods shall cease at the end of that period.

 

(8) Where -

 

(a) a term of the contract provides that if the consumer cancels the contract, he must return the goods to the supplier, and

 

(b) the consumer is not otherwise entitled to reject the goods under the terms of the contract or by virtue of any enactment,

 

paragraph (7) shall apply as if for the period of 21 days there were substituted the period of 6 months.

 

(9) Where any security has been provided in relation to the cancelled contract, the duty to restore goods imposed on the consumer by this regulation shall not be enforceable before the supplier has discharged any duty imposed on him by regulation 14(4) to return any property lodged with him as security on cancellation.

 

(10) Breach of a duty imposed by this regulation on a consumer is actionable as a breach of statutory duty.

 

I do not need to remind you that these regulations are not open to interpretation. Regarding your request that I post them back to you, Section 4 is clear on the matter - it is not my duty to do so - however this is a moot point, since you no longer have any legal title to the goods. Section 5 is very clear on this point. As I have already delivered the console to your duty manager at the Welwyn store, under the express direction of your E-Commerce Team, I am now discharged from any duty to retain possession or restore them to you.

 

You should note that, in my letter dated 4th May, I indicated that I would allow you to pick the console up from me (at a mutually agreeable time). At no time did I suggest that I wished to post the console back to you. Furthermore, you will note that I agreed to allow you to collect the console after I had been refunded in full, and purely as a matter of goodwill.

 

It was also clear that your reply contained no apology (or even acknowledgement) for the abject failure of both your E-Commerce Team or your branch communications, so I am still seeking:

 

1) A full and prompt refund of the amount paid for the console.

 

2) Compensation for the in-store ordeal on 5th April.

 

3) A contribution towards my time, petrol and parking charges for the wasted trip.

 

4) A full, written apology from Argos Direct.

 

5) A full, written apology from Susanna and the Welwyn store.

 

 

 

If Sara Weller has, indeed, ready my original letter, I wonder if she would be satisfied with the response you have given? Whist I appreciate the fact that is your job to mitigate on behalf of Argos, you also have a responsibility to address the concerns which I put in front of you, not simply issue an ill-informed response suggesting that I simply package the item back up and send it directly to the Executive’s Office. That does not address any of the points I raised, and even serves to inflame the situation further – something I certainly wasn’t expecting to happen.

 

 

 

I appreciate this issue is complex, but I hope there is now no further room for misinterpretation or misunderstanding on the part of Argos. I expect the 5 points highlighted above to be actioned within 7 days. If actioned satisfactorily, I will allow you to pick up the console within a further 7 days, at a time of my convenience. If I fail to receive a satisfactory response, I will place the matter in the hands of Consumer Direct and Trading Standards, as you are clearly in breach of the Distance Selling Regulations. I will take whatever further steps are necessary in order to force the refund of the monies I have paid, including (but not limited to) action in court. Of course, if I have to pursue the matter in court, and you are found to be in breach of the Distance Selling Regulations, and are ordered to refund my money, I shall not, under any circumstances, offer to return the console as a goodwill gesture.

 

 

 

I trust you will give this matter full and proper attention. It was escalated to the Executive’s Office as a result of a long period of dissatisfaction with the responses generated by the E-Commerce Team, but unfortunately you have chosen to conduct yourselves in exactly the same manner.

 

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

-XXX XXXXXXXX

 

So we'll see what happens next.

 

I sent that via Email, and had a reply this morning, which was pretty much short and to the point:

 

I can confirm that a copy of your complaint has now been passed to our Consumer Affairs department who will be in contact with you as soon as possible.

 

Still no proper acknowledgement, no apology and I'm now on the verge of getting home addresses for the likes of Sarah Weller, and seeing if they like to read about the failings of Argos over their morning cornflakes with their families.

 

Next stop is probably Trading Standards - but, despite what the "law" says, they'll probably give a wishy-washy "Why not simply post it back to them and wait for your refund...?" - which is obviously NOT the point of the situation.

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Fantastic letter Jampot; keep us posted...I have to say that by this point I would be sorely tempted to keep the original console and you are showing great restraint & fairness ( even though it doesn't seem to be doing you any favours ) :)

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The only thing I can fault in your letter is:

 

Quote

I appreciate this issue is complex

Unquote

 

I think it's the simplist thing I have ever read.

You have goods they have money. You cancel goods and hand back, they give back money.

Why are they making something so simple into ww3?

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Agree - but as well as getting them to sort out the issues, I expect them to investigate the conduct of their staff, and make their staff (particularly the branch manageress) apologies to me as well.

 

I was away last week (much needed break for a long weekend) and came back to a letter from their Consumer Affairs dept (or whatever its called - someone different anyway) who appears to be a bit more on the ball. Obviously they want their console back still, but if I read it right, they're going to sort things in the right order. It was a bit amiguous, though, but at least it was a little more apologetic, and blames internal "confusion". A cop-out if you ask me, and if I can be bothered, I'll write back and say so.

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Its unbelievable really, and to think most of these people (the employees) who have treated you like this would not accept it themelves.

 

I cannot comment on the legal issues but 100% agree with your morals and the principal is the point.

 

As one post said its simple so why make it complicated?

 

Keep up the good work these corporations need to be kept firmly on thier toes and remeber how important each consumer is.

 

Keep me posted ont he eventual outcome.:)

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  • 2 weeks later...
jampot, it's important to know when to stop flogging a dead horse.

 

You are quite correct, of course... so it is a good job I turned the screw a little tighter and kept up the pressure, as this horse was far from dead.

 

They have refunded the full amount to my card, agreed a £50 goodwill gesture, and are still to pick up the console at a time of my choosing.

 

They've issued apologies on behalf of the E-Commerce team and the store, and promised an internal investigation.

 

I got pretty much what I wanted from hassling them, and if they can't pick the console up when it is agreeable to me, I'll get to keep that by default too, but I'm now happy to relinquish it, it wasn't my intention to profit from this, just to make them follow the rules.

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Well done on the victory, hopefully hq can get some decent training in regarding distance selling regs now :p

Ex-Retail Manager who is happy to offer helpful advise in many consumer problems based on my retail experience. Any advise I do offer is my opinion and how I understand the law.

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