Bump v Humpty Dumpty

[MrBump]

hello all,

 

The story so far...

 

I requested my DPA stuff through the website 40 days ago; after about 2 weeks they sent a message saying 'yr DPA request has been actioned and posted' ... silly old me, I assumed this meant they'd actually sent my data, without the tenner. After a gentle reminder, they said that they meant they'd sent the form requesting ID etc. They've claimed to have sent this on two dates, but I've had nothing. This seems like a masterful delaying tactic; I almost admire their skills - in theory they could do this forever. I asked them to simply tell me what they need and where to send it, but this 'isn't part of the process' they say, so no dice. Bravo and touche! I'm getting sick of their faffery, so I'm going to send the ten squid to:

 

Jenny Gordon

Data Protection Manager

Egg PLC

1 Waterhouse Square

138 – 142 Holborn

London

EC1N 2NA

 

Does anyone know what they ask for as ID? Is it one statement/utility, from the last three months? Does it have to be original?

 

I'm going to complain to the ICO about this, as it has gone beyond a yolk (sorry). Looking forward to them cracking and shelling out (even more sorry...)

 

MrBump

[redsue]

hi mrbump - its the way ya tell em!

Does anyone know what they ask for as ID?

I sent them a photocopy of my driving licence enlarged to about twice the size so they could see my lovely signature, address and grinning face!

I also sent it to Jenny Gordon at the above address some time last week but as yet they've not cashed the cheque.

[Didge]

I sent them one of my utility bills and just added a line to that effect to the end of the SAR letter so they couldn't say they didn't get the bill with the letter.

Doesn't make the slightest difference to them getting the data back to you in time - still waiting for about 6 months worth of missing paperwork...

[MrBump]

I've been in a protracted e-mail exchange with Egg for 2 months trying to get a DPA request sent out through the website without further ID requests etc. I complained to the ICO last week, and have now received a message from Egg (at the bottom of this post) saying they have changed their policy. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the complaint but it's a surprising volte face after all the bloody-minded nonsense they've been spouting for so long.

 

I've included the last few messages of a series that began in early February for your amusement.

 

Mar 2007

 

Dear Mr Bump

 

Thanks for your message

 

Egg does not believe that the terms and conditions of the Agreement are in any way unlawful or unfair. Egg recognises that customers sometimes exceed their Credit Limits and/or fail to make a payment and has systems and processes in place to deal with this. These include the use of computer systems, staff and other necessary costs.

 

The charges set out in condition 7 of the Agreement are calculated by taking into account the costs incurred by Egg in maintaining these systems and processes and dividing this sum by the estimated number of customers who will exceed their Credit Limits or fail to make payments. These charges therefore represent a genuine pre-estimate of the loss caused to Egg by customers who break the terms of their Agreement.

 

Your Data Subject Information Request(DSIR) has been actioned and posted.

 

If you require anything else then please do not hesitate to contact us

 

Regards

 

Humpty Dumpty

Internet Customer Services

 

 

 

 

Apr 2007

 

Dear Mr Humpty,

 

I wonder if you could give me an update as to the progress of the DPA request 'actioned' on March xx. I've received nothing as yet, and the deadline expires soon.

 

Many thanks,

MrBump

 

 

Apr 2007

 

Dear MrBump

 

We sent a Data Subject Information Request form (DSIR) to you on xx March 2007.

 

We charge £10 for processing a Data Subject Information Request and we also request identification documents in order to verify your details.

 

As soon as we have received your payment and identification document we'll be able to start processing your request.

 

You'll receive your information within 40 calendar days of us receiving those details.

 

Thanks for your message

 

Regards

 

Humpty Dumpty

 

Apr 2007

 

Humpster,

 

I took your message saying 'Your Data Subject Information Request (DSIR) has been actioned and posted' to mean that you had actioned my request and posted my data. I have received no correspondence from you regarding this matter, despite you claiming to have sent me a letter relating to this on xx February 2007. I find it ridiculous that you require any further identification from me since I am communicating with you through your own secure messaging system and asking you to post my data to the same address to which you happily send cards and correspondence. I take a dim view of your blatant attempts to prevent me obtaining my data and would remind you that you are legally obliged to provide it to me. As you seem unwilling to provide my data I will be contacting the Information Commisioners office for advice on your conduct. Since you seem unable to trust your own systems, or of actually posting a letter to me, perhaps you could suggest another way of verifying who I am. Be aware that I will not allow you to stretch this out ad infinitum.

 

Yours Sincerely,

MrBump

 

Apr 2007

 

My Dearest MrBump,

 

We do need the required identification documents that were requested in the letter you received, without these we're unable to send out a Data Subject Information Request.

 

We're unable to verify you in any other way.

 

As soon as we have received your payment and identification document we'll start processing your request and you'll get your information within 40 days of us receiving those documents.

 

Thanks for your message and if you need to know anything else please just ask, I'm here to help.

 

Regards

 

Humpty

 

 

Apr 2007

 

My Dear Humpty,

 

Thank you for getting back to me, but I wonder if you actually read my message? As I clearly said: 'I have received no correspondence from you regarding this matter'. I have twice been told that you have sent me something, but, I repeat, I have received no correspondence from you regarding this matter. You have claimed to have sent me a Data Subject Information Request form (DSIR) on xx February 2007 and again on xx March 2007. I have had no such letters. I have been trying to access my data for several weeks, and this is simply unacceptable. Can you just tell me what it is you require, and where to send it. I am not prepared for you to simply tell me you have posted something for months on end.

 

Yours Sincerely,

MrBump

 

Apr 2007

 

Darling,

 

I'm sorry that you've not yet received the correspondence we've sent out regarding the Data Subject Information Request. I've arranged for this to be sent out again and you'll receive it to the following address;

 

MrBump Esq

Bump Towers

Hackney

 

I'm unable to provide you with where to provide the identification to directly as this isn't part of the process, however you can rest assured that everything will be with you shortly.

 

Thanks for your message, If you need anything further in the meantime let me know.

 

Regards

 

Humpty

 

Apr 2007

 

Dearest Humpty,

 

I am surprised that you are 'unable to provide you with where to provide the identification to directly as this isn't part of the process'; surely the address is 'part of the process' - it would be rather difficult for me to send anything to you without it. I will not rest assured that everything will be with me shortly as it has now been 38 days since I asked for this information and despite repeated assurances that you would send me something I have received nothing. While you may not be breaking the Data Protection Act directly, I'm sure the Information Commissioner will take a dim view of these delaying tactics.

 

As I said in my message sent earlier this morning, I am surprised you are requesting ID since my address remains the same as that you have on file.

 

However, I am sure you will accept this email -- through your own secure messaging system -- as confirmation of my identity. After all, unless I am who I claim to be, I would not be able to answer the security questions, would I? If you do not consider your messaging system/website sufficiently secure, perhaps you would let me know in writing.

 

Despite your unwillingness to provide me with an address, I will assume that the following, found on the internet, is correct:

 

Jenny Gordon

Data Protection Manager

Egg PLC

1 Waterhouse Square

138-142 Holborn

London

EC1N 2NA

 

I will send the £10 fee to this address today. I look forward to receiving the requested information, and will then proceed with a request for full refund of all penalty charges, and the DPA fee.

 

Alternatively, to avoid wasting court time, I would again suggest that you refund these charges immediately, saving yourself additional expense and costs.

 

Yours sincerely,

MrBump

 

Apr 2007

 

My Dear Bumpy,

 

I'm sorry you feel this way.

 

However you need to send the £10.00 cheque to the address given on the Data Subject Information Request form which has been sent to you on xx April 2007 as you haven't received the form issued previously.

 

I'm unable to accept your secure message as confirmation on your identity for this data request.

 

If you'd like to make a formal complaint, please write to our Customer Relations Office at the address below:

 

Customer Relations Office

Egg

Pride Park

Riverside Road

Derby

DE99 3GG

 

Once they've received your complaint, they'll respond to you, within five business days from receipt of your complaint, by phone, post or e-mail.

 

Thanks for your message.

 

Regards

 

Humpty

 

 

Apr 2007

 

Dear Humpty,

 

Third time lucky, perhaps. I won't hold my breath.

 

MrBump

 

 

Apr 2007

 

Dear Bump

 

Thanks for your message.

 

If you've any further queries please feel free to contact me again.

 

Regards

 

Humpty

Internet Customer Services

 

Apr 2007

 

Dear Humpers,

 

Thanks for your message. Please can you explain why you will discuss my account with me through your 'secure' messaging system, allow me to apply for credit on the system, and post credit cards to the address that you have on file for me, but will not post me my statements to the same address when I ask for them through the website? I am very concerned that you are seeking further identification from me than that which you already have and will not accept my online requests, as it strongly implies that you feel that your website is not sufficiently secure to handle such data. Can you confirm that the website and messaging system should not be trusted with handling personal financial information? Since you do not trust the Egg system I wonder if in future I should communicate with you solely through the postal system to avoid compromising my data? Please advise.

 

Yours sincerely,

MrBump

 

Apr 2007

 

Dear Bump

 

I'm sorry for any inconvenience caused.

 

Previously, a secure message was not one of our accepted proofs of ID for this type of request. However, to improve the speed and efficiency of this for our customers we now accept secure messages as proof of ID when making a data subject information request.

 

I've passed your details on to the team that will process your data subject information request to let them know you've sent the secure message to us, they'll contact you shortly.

 

I can assure you that our website is both safe and secure. More information can be found on the 'Security and privacy' section of our website, which can be viewed by copying the following link into your web browser:

 

new.egg.com/visitor/0,,3_89058--View_1948,00.html

 

Thanks for your message.

 

Regards

 

Humpty

 

 

 

Victory at last! (Although I'm still not going to hold my breath...)

 

[MrBump]

I'm glad I didn't hold my breath - after sending this, a few days after the last message above...

 

Dear Egg,

 

I'm glad that you have amended your illogical ID request policy, but I've now been trying to obtain my information for 44 days and am no closer to doing so. I have still not heard anything from you regarding my data subject information request. Please can you update me as a matter of urgency.

 

Bumpy

 

...I heard nothing for ages, until today, when I got this:

 

 

Dear Bump,I work on the Data Subject Information Request Team and I have taken ownership of your case. I am writing to advise you that your request is being treated as high priority. We will endeavour to process your request within the next 7 working days.Should you have any further questions regarding this, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Regards

Mr Eggy

Account Servicing, DSIR Team

Egg

 

 

Not good enough ... I've now been waiting far too long. Off come the gloves:

 

Dear Mr Eggy,

 

As you will be aware I have been trying to obtain my data since February. I believe that Egg has breached the Data Protection Act in preventing me from accessing my data. There are eight Data Protection Principles ('the Principles') in the Act, sometimes referred to as the Principles of 'good information handling' which data controllers are required to comply with.I believe that Egg has contravened the sixth data protection principle of the Data Protection Act 1998. The rights to subject access under sections 7 to 9 of the Act fall within this principle, which states, 'Personal data shall be processed in accordance with the rights of data subjects under this Act.'As a result I have registered a complaint with the Information Commissioner, who is currently investigating this case. You should be aware that your data controller is personally responsible under law for breaches of the Act. If I am forced to pursue this matter through the courts there is a real possibility that the judge will impose a threat of imprisonment for non-compliance. I recommend that you deal with my request as a matter of utmost urgency.

 

Yrs,Angry Bump

 

 

And within 4 hours I got this back:

 

Dear Angry Bump

 

Your Data Subject Information Request has been dispatched via recorded delivery today.

 

Regards

Ms Eggy

Account Servicing

Egg

 

Amazing what the threat of pokey can achieve... Dare I hope to actually get something? Fingers crossed.

[redsue]

way to go Mr Bump - nothing wrong with applying pressure - after all that's what they specialise in

[Smiley Scouser 27]

Do you know what? I've been reading everyones threads about Egg & I never ever got asked for ID from them & I never sent any with my first letter. They must know not to mess with me!!! LOL

[MrBump]

Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghh!!!!!!!

[MrBump]

Er, what I meant was, how lucky!

 

Although you didn't get the pleasure of threatening them with some shower-block action ... hehehe.

[Smiley Scouser 27]

LOL, you'll get your money as well soon xx

[MrBump]

Hello,

 

I got to the stage of having an offer from Egg for about half of my charges + compound interest (£1,500 asked, £750 offered) roughly two years ago but never accepted this or got around to starting court action. I had assumed that the bank charges ruling meant that there was no point in pursuing these charges (dating back 6+ years) but I have seen some posts suggesting that this isn't the case. Can anyone tell me whether it's worth getting back in touch with Egg and then going through the courts? All the deadlines I set are long passed so I assume I could just send a letter declining the last offer they made in June 2008, asking for an updated amount and then launch a claim online when they decline to pay?

 

Or does the banking ruling mean there's little point?

 

Any advice gratefully received.

 

Mr Bump

[Mistermind]

Bank charges were ruled in the highest court as service fees, whereas credit card charges remain viewed as excessive penalty charges, ruled refundable in Dunlop v Garage 1911.

 

4 years after the OFT fired the opening shot no credit card has dared fight this ruling in court. Your penalty charges are reclaimable in full, except for charges before May 2004, now gone beyond recall because of the 6-year statute of limitations.

 

If you demonstrate your conviction and resolution Egg will cave in at the last minute. They normally add 8% interest without prompting, but do not mention "Contractual Interest" which was dismissed in the High Court. Normally an exchange of 2, 3 letters should be enough without recourse to court, but if they remain intransigent you need to demonstrate you are about to file N1 claim in court, with legal costs added.

 

Good luck. But reclaim it before Egg goes bust. :D

[MrBump]

Thanks for the update, I'll adjust the interest in light of what you say. Might the fact that I'm still repaying the debt mean that the 6-year statute of limitations doesn't apply, do you know?

 

The mouse-over pop-up on this site says 'the six years runs from the last time .... that a payment was made towards the debt.'

 

It also says that the six years runs from the date upon which it became due - wouldn't this be the first time that I requested the charge back, or became aware that it was unlawful?

 

Did the arguments that were being used by CAGers against six years collapse? I thought this issue was a cracked nut?

 

Thanks, Mr.B

[postggj]

the six years start from the cause of action

 

the last time payment was due or an acknowledge in writing the debt

 

its six years from then

five in scotland

[MrBump]

So the advice to the claimant in this thread is incorrect on both interest and 6 years?

[Mistermind]

 

The mouse-over pop-up on this site says 'the six years runs from the last time .... that a payment was made towards the debt.'

 

 

This is not about 6 years limitation on collection of unpaid credit borrowings.

 

This is about reclaiming penalty charge 6 years after they were levied. Continued monthly payments are irrelevant to the issue of charges due to you as opposed to the outstanding debt due to Egg.

 

This is like saying someone gave you the wrong bill and you paid it. After the elapse of a certain period the question is what the judge will say to the claimant in court.

 

It is your privilege to browse numerous threads and choose what to believe. I have nothing further to add on this subject.

[MrBump]

Righto, thanks. It seems then than tnook has been given a serious bum steer on both counts, perhaps he should be alerted.

[MrBump]

I'm pursuing a similar claim but have been advised by MisterMind that 6 years is as far back as one can go and that interest should be claimed only at 8% as 'contractual interest' was dismissed by the high court. Can anyone confirm this?

 

He says: "Your penalty charges are reclaimable in full, except for charges before May 2004, now gone beyond recall because of the 6-year statute of limitations.

 

If you demonstrate your conviction and resolution Egg will cave in at the last minute. They normally add 8% interest without prompting, but do not mention "Contractual Interest" which was dismissed in the High Court."

 

Does this mean that I can't claim compounded interest at the rate they charge me?

[slick132]

Hi Mr Bump - is this regarding a Barclaycard a/c ?

 

You can go back to 1995 by virue of s.32 Limitation Act 1980 as you were unaware of, or BC concealed, the unlawful nature of BC's penalty charges.

 

You can claim Interest in Restitution compounded at BC's Contractual Rate. Read the Interest Tutorial at Link No6 in my signature under the heading of Credit Cards.

 

[MrBump]

Thanks, will have a read - it's with Egg rather than B/C...

[slick132]

If you don't already have an Egg thread, I'll move this there for you to avoid further hijack of TNOOK's thread.

 

[MrBump]

Eek! I have one there - 'can I still claim' - just wanted to alert TNOOK to MisterMind's advice...

[slick132]

No probs.

 

There are several threads here in the BC forum where claimants have won contractual interest claims.

 

Looks like Mistermind needs to do a bit more research.