No AQ - Straight to PRE TRIAL REVIEW

[lateralus]

take a look back on the later posts of the maybe no aq thread - garyh (site helper) has some thoughts and a link to bookworm's suggestion to send the draft directon anyway - we're still talking - may be helpful - take a look.

[oyster11]

Yeah been having a look at that lattie looks good

 

Let me know when a final is ready I will then send it to my local court

if you can also post the final on here so i get the right copy, that would be great.

 

Cheers

 

Oyster

[lateralus]

ok, will do.

[lateralus]

ok, oyster, here you go:

 

It has been suggested by Bookworm in this thread:

Is your court dispensing with the Allocation Questionnaire?

that if you find yourself in this position - you send the Draft Direction to the court you've now been transferred to - the same as if you were filing an AQ using the new strategy:

New strategy for Allocation Questionaires

So, this would mean a cover note like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Your address]

The Court Manager

****** County Court

Court Address

Court P/code

 

 

[date]

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

You -v- Bank Plc

Claim Number: *******

 

 

It is noted that in my case referenced above that the Allocation Questionnaire has been dispensed with. I am aware that this is likely due to the large volume of claims that consumers are bring against the high street banks. I am also aware that to date the banks have failed to defend a case in the courts and that they often use the court process to extend and delay the period of time within which deal with these matters satisfactorily.

 

 

In light of this the Claimant respectfully suggests that special directions may be made as per the attached draft order.

 

 

The Claimant believes the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed in advance of any hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

 

 

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the true loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

 

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is incumbent on it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

 

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

[name]

 

 

enc: Draft Order

 

 

 

THEN ON A SEPARATE PIECE OF PAPER - THIS:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

 

 

1. The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

• b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

• c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

• d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

• a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

• b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

• c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

• d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

• e) Any witness statements.

• f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

 

AND ONE FURTHER BIT OF INFO - I KNOW IT'S DRAGGING THIS POST OUT BUT I THINK IT BEST TO HAVE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE ALL IN ONE PLACE SO:

 

If the judge were to grant the draft order it would mean that when the court asks for the info - this is it, in triplicate (one set you, one for the court and one for dg) - so DON'T do this until it is ordered by the court and it is about 5 days from being required as it is a heck of a lot of copying - probably over 200 pages times 3.

but this is the info that would be required should the draft direction be made an order:

 

If the judge agrees with the draft order and makes it a direction, it will come back to you and you will have at least 14 days (the date will be on the paperwork) to send in four things.

a) your schedule of charges.

b) your statements showing the charges. Alternatively, the list of charges which the bank provided under your S.A.R (subject Access Request) (only send the statements with charges on them.)

c) A Statement of Evidence: (post 55 in the new strategy): New strategy for Allocation Questionaires

d) All the statutes and decided cases on which your claim relies. ie, UTCCR's, UCTA's, SOGA, case law, etc. For this, I'd just submit the whole of the Basic Court Bundle.

This whole thing runs to around 200 pages and should be done in triplicate: one copy for you, one for the court and one for dg – that’s 600 pages of copying – LEAVE IT UNTIL YOU KNOW FOR SURE YOU NEED IT. If an offer comes in from DG and is accepted you wouldn’t need it. Really leave it until you have to do it to meet the deadline set by the court!

[oyster11]

Hi all,

 

Such a Beautiful day in sunny Cambridge

 

Do we know if any one else has had any notice of PRE TRIAL REVIEW or am I the only one so far.

 

Oyster

[Philomena100]

i was expecting mine today but i have got nothing maybe as gary said it might well be a one off

[Castlebest]

Still looks to be just you Oyster. I know I won’t get one now because the Easter Bunny came in the night and left me a full offer this morning.

Don’t worry you will get your money soon

pete

[Smellipants]

Hi all,

 

Such a Beautiful day in sunny Cambridge

 

Do we know if any one else has had any notice of PRE TRIAL REVIEW or am I the only one so far.

 

Oyster

 

Hi Oyster - I just received a PTR from Cambridge county court against the Abbey, so I'll be watching your thread with interest! Incidentally my court date is set for the 13th July :o

[Clare1981]

{{{{{Watching with interest!!}}}}} Fingers crossed xxxx

[Castlebest]

Then there were two, both Cambridge too so this might be just Cambridge County Court's take on things. Well at least both your PTR's are on the same day, you can hold hands oh and Friday the 13th is just as unlucky for them as it is for you in case your superstitious.

Watching with interest

pete

[givememymoney]

Hi Oyster - I just received a PTR from Cambridge county court against the Abbey, so I'll be watching your thread with interest! Incidentally my court date is set for the 13th July :o

 

Is that your claim with the Abbey smelli? Shame it is not DG/HSBC having to do two on the same day!!

[oyster11]

Hi Smellipants

 

Two of us then !!

 

I wonder if it is just Particular to Cambridge then, well we will soon find out in a couple of days or so. Yeah Friday the 13th in the morning I will bring my lucky black cat to s**t all over them.

 

oyster

[givememymoney]

You may also want some garlic to fend off the vampires from HSBC!!

[Castlebest]

I dunno, I think two people called Oyster and Smellipants will be fine together

 

pete

[Smellipants]

Is that your claim with the Abbey smelli? Shame it is not DG/HSBC having to do two on the same day!!

 

hehe yea, unfortunately just me V the Shabbey - mine is at 12:45pm on the 13th - Oyster: meet you outside for some tips!

[oyster11]

- Yeah no problem Smelli you won't be able to miss me I will be in a dark blue suit with a pink carnation in the left lapel and newspaper under my right arm Oh yeah and a big Grin.

 

I am in at 11:45

 

Oyster

[Smellipants]

Just out of interest, are you going to just wait until the date now?

Was just wondering if it's worth sending the bank's solicitors a letter offering them a chance to settle before the date - would be nice to get the money earlier rather than later

[iskanda]

Hi All,

I had my notice of transfer of proceedings last night, with Judge Murdoch ordering that AQ's be dispensed with. I'm going to Cardiff. I've taken the bull by the horns and have posted the letter to my bank (Barclays') legal team asking for settlement. I've also posted the draft order as per advice here to the court. I'll let you know how things go. Thanks for the help though guys - very useful stuff.

[oyster11]

Hi Smelli

 

I think I am gonna wait for the time being drop DG a little nudge, now and then.

what about you?

iskanda go for it when did you send the order off?

 

Oyster

[yankee_bloke]

Hi guys

 

I got the same thing, no AQ just this pre trial review at Cambs County court 13 July @ 3:15 PM.

 

i am debating if i should push for an AQ etc to get this moving, i think if all of us were to do the same thing it might help sway the judge????

 

BTW i am fighting Woolwich / Barclays

[Castlebest]

Hiya Yankee, I don’t think you will, it's the judges that have decided to reform the system. I think you will get a lot better response if you try sending a version of Lateralus's letter to your own solicitor.

 

Don’t forget your main aim is to get an offer from the solicitor not get the bank to a court room because that’s impossible.

 

Plus the AQ only allows the District Judge to asses the case and allocate court time, if you get a court date you don’t need an AQ.

 

pete

[lateralus]

i agree with pete (but then i wrote the letter!)

if any of you are in any doubt as to what is going on - think from back to front - the banks absolutely don't want to go to court. so, back to front from court date is whatever the judge require's in info - they don't want to do that either - so before that, they will deal - maybe not a full offer -depending on how much time they have before the court date - so, you let them know that you know what they will and won't do (not out and out - just hint at it - no need to get their hackles up). So, to my mind - as soon as you know a date - start the nudge - every 10 days. make sure every letter you send includes a copy of your breakdown - and like the guy in jail - you are all allowed one call to the solicitor - just the one, to ask if your breakdown has been received - early on - soon as you get the paper saying they have defended.

from that to the nudging letters - every 10 days - they will offer!!!!!

each one just that bit more urgent (for them). indicate how good it will look to the court that you are trying to resolve it, let them know how busy the courts are and the courts will appreciate a resolution without their involvment, let them know that you know how busy they are and it must be advantageous to settle some of the less complicated claims to clear them off their books, let them know that you are up on the court stuff - you look forward to putting your side before the judge as you are sure the judge will see your side of this, anything to get them to make an offer, give them your phone number, mobile number, e-mail addy, etc.

 

I can sit here and write a couple more nudging letters - but there are a few in my 28 day thread and the aq one - so just take and rework them - then they won't all be identical. i'll help if anyone needs specific help - but i think it's best to be a bit original with these letters.

 

we are now seeing offers to those who had the aq's dispensed (see matt2220781)- so, it's moving - just slowly - see if a nudge helps yours be one of the next ones to get an offer! good luck

[Castlebest]

Welcome home Lattie, glad they let you back in

 

pete

[lateralus]

only just! held up the queue in hull port for ages scrutinizing my passport!!!!!

[Castlebest]

Well you are an alien

pete