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Warning to PC World customers!


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I recently wrote an article about PC World and how it trains its sales advisers to persuade customers to buy more than they originally intended to. The article is designed to give customers an insight into the whole sales and purchasing procedure, and what to look out for.

The article can be viewed here. Please discuss.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest yourbestfriend

just some facts..

one thing.. i am actually thinking of applying for the job of PCWorld PR. as i dont work for the company and yet i am defending them soo much i think i should get paid.

 

PC's make 15% profit

Laptops make 9% profit.

 

both of which do not come with nero, roxio, office, etc.

Thanks bill gates to your monopoly lawsuit.

 

£500 laptop makes £45 profit. £1,000 laptop makes £90 profit

asking for £500 extra for the laptop just gets them about £45.

 

Microsoft office £80 = £24 profit.

1GB RAM £80 = £40 profit.

Installation £15 = £15 profit. = £79 total

 

£500 laptop with office and a memory upgrade to run more programs simultaneously costs customer £655 and makes the company £124.

 

so you have only spent an extra £155 to get what you want and the company makes more money. you both win.

 

Retailers are not looking to seel the most expensive PC. They get money from the extra's you buy. so they ask do you need internet security.. because of 2 reasons it makes them money.. and if you got a virus you will be shouting at pcworld to get it working without it.

 

WIN WIN

 

so dont complain, think about it. without customers businesses go bankrupt. so they want to make sure you have what you need. especially with the amount of complaints you lot give.

 

with their aftercare. yep if you know what your doing and u not gona tweak the system. upgrade it or drop it fine risk the standard SOGA and warenty. but if you dont have a scooby snack about vista or you have 4yo kids with a fetish for damage. or simply if you dont wanna pay for parts. then the aftercare can help.

 

theres no lump sum, no contract. so if unhappy cancel it.. it must be good or they wont give you the option to cancel it....

 

like sky's 12month contract.. grrr after 2 months of the same spiderman movies i wanted to cancel

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so you have only spent an extra £155 to get what you want and the company makes more money. you both win.

 

Retailers are not looking to seel the most expensive PC. They get money from the extra's you buy. so they ask do you need internet security.. because of 2 reasons it makes them money.. and if you got a virus you will be shouting at pcworld to get it working without it.

 

WIN WIN

 

or you could go elsewhere and get the office software for free (openoffice) the ram for alot cheaper and install it yourself - wow saved almost £100 and as for the antivirus/firewall they could reccomend free alternatives (which are far better than the norton pap they sell) and the customer would be better off and have full confidence that the shop was acting in their best interest - win win.

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or you could go elsewhere and get the office software for free (openoffice) the ram for alot cheaper and install it yourself - wow saved almost £100

 

Like a lot of things, it depends what your time is worth to you. For some people with a lot to spend, it would not be worth the hassle. For some on a tighter budget, this is their best option.

 

I agree with you about Norton: they shouldn't be allowed to make untrue claims, and the SoGA needs to be enforced much better against unsatisfactory quality software.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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This is just a query, mainly out of curiosity from the previous poster.

 

With software, you never actually purchase the software, just a license to use it. As such, i guess it's more of a contract that you're purchasing instead of goods. Does the purchase of a license to use software constitute goods and is any dispute regarding software applicable under the SoGA?

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This is just a query, mainly out of curiosity from the previous poster.

 

With software, you never actually purchase the software, just a license to use it. As such, i guess it's more of a contract that you're purchasing instead of goods. Does the purchase of a license to use software constitute goods and is any dispute regarding software applicable under the SoGA?

 

I have heard this my whole life, but I've never seen an actual law to back it up. I strongly suspect it's just an excuse used by manufacturers and retailers to evade their responsibilities. Just because it's illegal to copy the software, it doesn't follow that you are not still purchasing it.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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Like a lot of things, it depends what your time is worth to you. For some people with a lot to spend, it would not be worth the hassle. For some on a tighter budget, this is their best option.

 

tbh you have to be on a nice salary not to care about £100 for 10 mins work - I doubt there are many of us on here that are on effectively £1.2 million a year tax free (as £100 for 10 mins is £600 an hour tax free).

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I like the info, i bought my pc from curry's years ago and thank god said no to everything. Nowadays its cheeper to use e-bay, you can get a base unit for about 1/2 the price of pc world/currys with double the power.

 

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tbh you have to wouldn't shobe on a nice salary not to care about £100 for 10 mins work - I doubt there are many of us on here that are on effectively £1.2 million a year tax free (as £100 for 10 mins is £600 an hour tax free).

 

It's 10 minutes work for you or me, but remember some people have to be shown where the power switch is. :)

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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Guest yourbestfriend
I like the info, i bought my pc from curry's years ago and thank god said no to everything. Nowadays its cheeper to use e-bay, you can get a base unit for about 1/2 the price of pc world/currys with double the power.

 

Flopper

yep thats great. we all can save money. but by buying things from ebay you have no legal rights about faults etc. as what you buy is what you get, sold as seen, to refunds .. that that stuff

 

and with websites, their is no SOGA support. just a poor 3 month's after that then your on your own.

 

everyone can get anything cheaper.. pcworld charge £10 for ink i can get it for 79p online.. its refilled. un guranteed, etc but its cheaper.. but when i want photo's to look good i pay the £10.

 

my advice is shop around for the best deal. if you want it cheap and dont care about the future then yes save money. but if you want the support and the knowledge that it will be fixed labour and part free then it may be worth the extra. and with software. dont buy from ebay. ebay is simply a carboot sale. if you buy software from ebay then it is second hand. registered to the original owner.

 

PCworld prices beat Dell prices.. dell dont have to act apon SOGA as they dont have a retail store. so Dell are more profiteering then PCWorld

 

I love the staff in pcworld, always friendly to me and tey get as frustrated as i do with some of you un informed customers. Dont pretend to know it all.

 

If you knew everything about the law then you should be in the house of lords.

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Guest yourbestfriend
or you could go elsewhere and get the office software for free (openoffice) the ram for alot cheaper and install it yourself - wow saved almost £100 and as for the antivirus/firewall they could reccomend free alternatives (which are far better than the norton pap they sell) and the customer would be better off and have full confidence that the shop was acting in their best interest - win win.

 

2 things..

i would like you to use word art, to your open office word document,

also now add a chart to it which updates from the information in the table from the document. Whats that, you cant??

sorry repat that. you cant??

 

if you want to write a letter to a friend and make the writing a simple colour go download open office. want something more compliated such as word art,, charts and millions of other functions. then you are stuck with office.

 

and as for Antivirus.

 

AVG is what everyone says is the best antivirus program around. afraid to say it is not.

 

go to their website and read the certifications they have. AVG professional has been certified like 1 month a year. ill repeat AVG professional. AVG free is not certified.

 

also read the labs that certify them it shows norton, and mcafee getting far more certifications then AVG.

 

thirdly. AVG is free.. how can they afford all them great antivirus developers if its free??

 

would you work for a company that givves your designs away for free and the professional edition does not sell much to pay your wages.

 

again to all read the facts research look into it,

 

the only problem with norton and mcafee is speed and thats because it is always there always scanning always protecting. this uses RAM 256mb to be exact. so with XP using 128MB minimum and Vista needing 512mb minimum dont expect your photo editing software, aol dialer, media center etc to load up instantly if you have less then 1024MB on XP or 2048MB Vista

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yep thats great. we all can save money. but by buying things from ebay you have no legal rights about faults etc. as what you buy is what you get, sold as seen, to refunds .. that that stuff

 

and with websites, their is no SOGA support. just a poor 3 month's after that then your on your own.

 

erm don't know where you've got your information from - if you buy a new item from a business, doesn't matter if its online or on ebay you are covered by the SOGA.

 

 

and as for Antivirus.

 

AVG is what everyone says is the best antivirus program around. afraid to say it is not.

 

go to their website and read the certifications they have. AVG professional has been certified like 1 month a year. ill repeat AVG professional. AVG free is not certified.

 

also read the labs that certify them it shows norton, and mcafee getting far more certifications then AVG.

 

thirdly. AVG is free.. how can they afford all them great antivirus developers if its free??

 

would you work for a company that givves your designs away for free and the professional edition does not sell much to pay your wages.

 

again to all read the facts research look into it,

 

the only problem with norton and mcafee is speed and thats because it is always there always scanning always protecting. this uses RAM 256mb to be exact. so with XP using 128MB minimum and Vista needing 512mb minimum dont expect your photo editing software, aol dialer, media center etc to load up instantly if you have less then 1024MB on XP or 2048MB Vista

 

But how many home users write anything other than a simple letter? Or use anything other than a simple spreadsheet - I bet less than 1%.

 

Also as to antivirus/firewall, yes there are many products out there better than AVG or Zonealarm (as an example of free ones) and there are many on a similar price scale to Norton that are alot better, Not only does Norton hog system resources but it isn't as good as others at ffinding and dealing with virus's - have a look at Esets NOD32 or Kaspersky for antivirus and Kerio or Sygate on the firewall front. If you are honestly reccomending Nortons products I suggest you go do your research.

 

As to wether I would work for a company that would give away my products for free - doesn't bother me as long as I get paid, when you work for a company you usually sign stating all work produced on company time/equipment is company property - so doesn't make a difference to me if its sold for £10000000000 or nothing.

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yep thats great. we all can save money. but by buying things from ebay you have no legal rights about faults etc. as what you buy is what you get, sold as seen, to refunds .. that that stuff

 

and with websites, their is no SOGA support. just a poor 3 month's after that then your on your own.

 

Crikey, this is totally wrong! Of course internet retailers are subject to the same legislation as shop retailers. In fact, there is actually more protection for buying online as you may get additional cancellation rights under the Distance Selling Regulations.

 

PCworld prices beat Dell prices.. dell dont have to act apon SOGA as they dont have a retail store. so Dell are more profiteering then PCWorld

 

Any company within the EU has to give consumer protection.

 

I love the staff in pcworld, always friendly to me and tey get as frustrated as i do with some of you un informed customers. Dont pretend to know it all.

 

I don't think there are many people on here who would claim to know it all (no, not even me ;)). Everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone is entitled to disagree, but not all customers are uninformed about their rights, thankfully.

Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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Guest yourbestfriend

Soga says about the whole 6 month RETAILER has to prove it not faulty from purchase. and upto 6 years customer has to prove it is not thier miss-use.

 

RETAILERS are shops. walk in the door speak to someone, go to a till, pass over the money.

 

Webstores such as Dell dont have the upto 6 year's right. they have 3 months.

 

Ebay is not a webstore business who sell items they are a advertising company.

for instance you look in the newspaper classifieds for a new car. you buy it, 3 months later it brakes down and you have only drove it 2 miles since purchase. are you saying its the newspaper who have to fix it???

no its the seller. the newpaper and ebay only advertise it.

 

again they advertisers are just classed as agents. you can go to them to try and get information on the seller/manufacturer but you have to go back to the seller as that is who your contract is with.

 

just like ebay, they are not the seller just the advertiser.

 

some ebay users are not a busines, they just do it from home like a car boot sale. in which case you got no rights at all.. its sold as seen.

 

 

i seen a car advertised on a county council lamp-post. if i bought it and it went wrong shall i call the county council to repair it??

 

think about it.

 

i have simplified the sale of goods act out and put it into personal expereinces everyone should understand.

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Guest yourbestfriend

you are right consumers buying online have their own rights but SOGA refers to retail stores only.

 

there are other rights referring to Online stores.

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Online retailers are of course liable under the SoGA.

 

Of course Dell are liable under consumer protection legislation. As they are based in Eire, this may not be UK law (I can't tell without checking their website) but there will be legislation they have to adhere to, as all online retailers within the EU have to.

 

Any web-based business based in the UK have the same obligations under the Sale of Goods Act that any shop has.

 

Ebay themselves are not the retailers, they provide the marketplace for the retailers. If people are selling on eBay as a business, they themselves (not eBay) are also liable under the SoGA.

 

If you see a car advertised on a lamp post, if the person selling it is a business they are liable under the SoGA.

 

Even if they are private sellers they have a liability under the SoGA to not misdescribe the goods.

 

I don't need to think about it, it's pure simple fact.

 

You haven't simplified the SoGA so much as misunderstood what it applies to. It seems it's not always just the consumer who is misinformed :)

  • Haha 1

Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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you are right consumers buying online have their own rights but SOGA refers to retail stores only.

 

there are other rights referring to Online stores.

 

No, there are additional rights referring to online stores, but any online store in the UK is subject to the Sale of Goods Act.

Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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I wasn't refering to ebay being liable - I was saying the seller (if a business and if selling a new item) was liable. And yes online trade is covered by the SOGA and distance selling legislation - I'd much rather take a legal proffesionals word for it (above) and a mate who's a lawyer over someone who seems quite confused about the act in question. Please do correct me if I'm wrong by pointing towards the section in the SOGA that says buying goods over the internet isn't covered.

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Guest yourbestfriend

have a look at Esets NOD32 or Kaspersky for antivirus and Kerio or Sygate on the firewall front. If you are honestly reccomending Nortons products I suggest you go do your research.

 

ok look on eset.com. (NOD32) look at all of their labs that certify them. looks great dont it?

now here is where you gave up thinking your satisfied and i began digging deeper.

 

go to ICSA Labs and look at their certified products.

 

ESET (NOD32) are not listed in the antivirus cleaning criteria, but are listed in the detection criteria. thats a worry, it will tell you it has a virus but not clean them all..

Grisoft (AVG) again in the detection category, but not the removal.

 

seeing a pattern??

 

go check for yourself.

 

oh while your there note the symantec names in both detecting AND cleaning.

 

i know what im talking about...

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just because their names flag up on website saying that they do something (or claim to) doesn't mean they do it or do it well. Detection and blocking of a virus entering your system is the main thing (which nod32 will do) once it is there you generally have to get a specific removal tool. Oh and you'll have obviously noticed kaspersky under both areas whilst you were looking ;) which is a noticably better product than Norton

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Guest yourbestfriend
And yes online trade is covered by the SOGA and distance selling legislation - I'd much rather take a legal proffesionals word for it (above) and a mate who's a lawyer over someone who seems quite confused about the act in question. Please do correct me if I'm wrong by pointing towards the section in the SOGA that says buying goods over the internet isn't covered.

 

Ok i am miss-informed i only read the bit concerning my retail shop.

it does mention delivery of goods etc. which clarifies to me that it is not limited to retail stores only.

 

There i admit my ignorance about online/distance selling.

 

Where i got confused was that it only covers businesses selling from the EU.

 

my suppliers are not in the EU and so i ignored a few paragraphs. so i admit my mis understanding about distance selling.

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"Of course Dell are liable under consumer protection legislation. As they are based in Eire, this may not be UK law (I can't tell without checking their website) but there will be legislation they have to adhere to, as all online retailers within the EU have to." by rosiecotton

 

One important thing to note about Dell, they sell direct to businesses as well as consumers. Not long ago they ONLY sold to businesses.

Choose the wrong sales route on thier site and you get no consumer protection as you buy as a business. Same with thier posted offer leaflets, one aimed at businesses, show's ex-vat prices, one for consumers.

 

Over the years I've had a number of customers who got stung like this.

I don't always believe what I say, I'm just playing Devils Advocate

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