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MadMurdoch v HSBC


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I've just started 2 claims against HSBC (also have one with Natwest too).

 

I wrote to them asking for my charges information but in the meantime realised the online banking offers 6yrs anyway so went through all 72 months myself.

 

Joint account

Charges

£1,147.00

Compound Interest @ 15.9%

£575.96

TOTAL £1,722.96

 

Wife's account

Charges

£833.50

Compound Interest @ 15.9%

£474.29

TOTAL £1,307.79

 

They only received the letters demanding my money back on Tuesday so hopefully I'll hear after Easter of their response.

 

I've written to my local branch - is this correct?

 

Also, I've compounded the interest @ HSBC's standard rate of 15.9% over the years (it is correct, I'm an accountant!) - can I legally claim this and then if I raise a small claims suit do I add a further compounded 8% or just the [email protected]% and ignore the 15.9% ?

 

Either way, the thought of getting between £2k-3k plus around £2k from Natwest is exciting me.

 

What a great savings account it has turned out to be!!

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no, it's one or the other - i've never done the contractual (i'm a real interest novice here - are we not saying compound but meaning contractual - forgive me, if you are an accountant - you must know)

anyway - the general rule for contractual is - you must ask for it from the beginning of your correspondence with the bank - then, when you file - in your particulars i believe you word it so that if the court were to refuse contractual - you fall back onto the 8%.

here's a thread which i usual point towards:firstnew.gif Why is no one claiming the contractual rate of interest???

good luck with your claims.

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Latties right your claim should consist of the unlawful charges plus a proportion of the overdraft interest due to those charges.

Then if you’re following the contractual interest route you should add the banks current AER percentage to the above figure. Yes this will have changed over the period of your claim but you will be negotiating this with the banks solicitors anyway to get a settlement.

If you choose to go for straight statutory interest then you just submit the charges and overdraft interest to the bank in your schedule and add the 8% when you submit your claim to the court. this figure is NOT compounded its a straight 8%.

I recommend you read this thread if your interested in contractual interest

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/33005-bong-hsbc-contractual-interest.html?highlight=bong

 

pete

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also, i was kind of pointing out the contractual thing and should have mentioned this: if you are wanting to claim the interest debits on your statements - these would be overdraft interest - and in order to work out the portion of the o/i you can reclaim - you must use the advanced s/s in the library. you can't just plonk the interest debits onto a list of charges - the s/s will determine - according to your balance at the time of the charge whether some, none or all of each interest debit is reclaimable.

the s/s does this very neatly but do not be tempted to claim for all the interest debited as the solicitors (or whomever goes over the claim) will spot that and deny you that. so, might as well get it correct from the beginning. overdraft interest or not (use the advanced s/s to see if it is worth claiming) contractual or not (tell them from the first letter), when it gets to the claim - use the wording found somewhere (i'm sure bong knows what i'm referring to) which would fall back to the 8% if the court were to deny you contractual interest.

i have easier instructions for the o/d interest business if you want them.

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no, it's one or the other - i've never done the contractual (i'm a real interest novice here - are we not saying compound but meaning contractual - forgive me, if you are an accountant - you must know)

anyway - the general rule for contractual is - you must ask for it from the beginning of your correspondence with the bank - then, when you file - in your particulars i believe you word it so that if the court were to refuse contractual - you fall back onto the 8%.

here's a thread which i usual point towards:firstnew.gif Why is no one claiming the contractual rate of interest???

good luck with your claims.

That's the answer I was after, thanks!

 

In terms on 'contractual' v 'compound' - what I meant was I applied their 'contractual' overdraft rate of 15.9% as being reciprocal, meaning that if they are happy to charge me that, then the unlawful charges in the overdraft also reverse applies to them. For 'compound' I simply took eg. £28 in April 2001 and applied 15.9% to the power of 6 so £28 x 1.159 x 1.159 etc......

 

I put compound in from the very start. I've been reading these forums for 4mths now and only plucked up the courage to act when one of my friends won his money back. It's a great forum here!

 

As for being an accountant, all that means is I'm good at Excel and can add up using a calculator

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also, i was kind of pointing out the contractual thing and should have mentioned this: if you are wanting to claim the interest debits on your statements - these would be overdraft interest - and in order to work out the portion of the o/i you can reclaim - you must use the advanced s/s in the library. you can't just plonk the interest debits onto a list of charges - the s/s will determine - according to your balance at the time of the charge whether some, none or all of each interest debit is reclaimable.

the s/s does this very neatly but do not be tempted to claim for all the interest debited as the solicitors (or whomever goes over the claim) will spot that and deny you that. so, might as well get it correct from the beginning. overdraft interest or not (use the advanced s/s to see if it is worth claiming) contractual or not (tell them from the first letter), when it gets to the claim - use the wording found somewhere (i'm sure bong knows what i'm referring to) which would fall back to the 8% if the court were to deny you contractual interest.

i have easier instructions for the o/d interest business if you want them.

 

I've been constantly in my overdraft for 6yrs so I've always paid their interest rate. I don't know what their rates have been so went with latest of 15.9%. I'll see what they come back first as I've forced their hand but I agree with the above, I just couldn't wait for them to get back to me. Also given the government and some MP's have highlighted these charges from the banks I thought I'd get moving quickly before any rulings are made.

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Latties right your claim should consist of the unlawful charges plus a proportion of the overdraft interest due to those charges.

 

Then if you’re following the contractual interest route you should add the banks current AER percentage to the above figure. Yes this will have changed over the period of your claim but you will be negotiating this with the banks solicitors anyway to get a settlement.

 

If you choose to go for straight statutory interest then you just submit the charges and overdraft interest to the bank in your schedule and add the 8% when you submit your claim to the court. this figure is NOT compounded its a straight 8%.

 

I recommend you read this thread if your interested in contractual interest

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/33005-bong-hsbc-contractual-interest.html?highlight=bong

 

pete

 

I started reading this 4mths ago and am still reading it now :wink:

 

I'll be following Bong's method and see how it goes. A flat 8% is better than nothing, especially if I can claim the 15.9% as well.

 

Natwest is 29.69% so that will be an interesting claim!!

 

Thanks for your feedback guys :grin:

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mares eat oats and does eat oats and little lambs eat ivy.....

i have to tell you that makes more sense than your posts do to me - but, que sera, sera. good luck!!!!

 

Lambs shouldn't eat ivy, it's highly poisonous :p

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A flat 8% is better than nothing, especially if I can claim the 15.9% as well.

 

just wanted to check this out MM, you do know that its one or the other (claimed as alternatives at court stage) don't you?

 

can't comment on your method of calculating the compound interest 'cos I relied on a spreadsheet to do the calcs., but the overdraft rate was 18.3% when I last checked. its worth checking this out on their website.

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just wanted to check this out MM, you do know that its one or the other (claimed as alternatives at court stage) don't you?

 

can't comment on your method of calculating the compound interest 'cos I relied on a spreadsheet to do the calcs., but the overdraft rate was 18.3% when I last checked. its worth checking this out on their website.

 

When I sent the letter it was definitely 15.9% but then again it might depend on the type of account? If they write back with the usual garbage saying it's legal etc. I might just revise my % to that, thanks for pointing it out.

 

I do know I can only claim for one %. I am a little confused though. Which is correct below:-

 

1. I put my claim in for say £1,000 + 15.9% compounded and they pay it

2. I put my claim in for say £1,000 + 15.9% compounded and they refuse to pay so I go to court and claim £1,000 + 15.9% + 8% (I'm pretty sure I can't claim for this)

3. I put my claim in for say £1,000 + 15.9% compounded and they refuse to pay so I go to court and claim £1,000 + 8%

4. I put my claim in for say £1,000 + 15.9% compounded and they refuse to pay so I go to court and claim £1,000 + 15.9%

 

Which is best? I'm assuming if 1 doesn't happen then I'm left with 3 or am I left with option 4? Please help!!!

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I do know I can only claim for one %. I am a little confused though. Which is correct below:-

 

1. I put my claim in for say £1,000 + 15.9% compounded and they pay it

 

ideal!!:D but unlikely, at pre-court action stage

 

2. I put my claim in for say £1,000 + 15.9% compounded and they refuse to pay -ok up to this point - so I go to court and claim £1,000 + 15.9% + 8% (I'm pretty sure I can't claim for this) - no, you go to court and claim +15.9% (or correct current rate) and ask the court to award stat interest in the alternative i.e. if the claim for CI fails.

 

3. I put my claim in for say £1,000 + 15.9% compounded and they refuse to pay so I go to court and claim £1,000 + 8% - no definitely not! because then you are moving the goal posts, it wouldn't be fair to say you are claiming one thing and on the basis of their refusal you drop part of that claim - they might say they would have settled had you not been claiming CI originally.

4. I put my claim in for say £1,000 + 15.9% compounded and they refuse to pay so I go to court and claim £1,000 + 15.9% - see 2 above

 

Which is best? I'm assuming if 1 doesn't happen then I'm left with 3 or am I left with option 4? Please help!!!

 

there is a lot to read on this subject MM, I have no idea how much you've already researched but if you are asking questions like this it would seem that you have a fair way to go before entering a court claim. Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm only trying to make sure that your claim stands a good chance of succeeding before it gets off the ground. :)

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Thanks Bong. 4 is my line of approach with the fall back of 8% should the court dismiss the banks O/D rate, so sort of 2 covers this as well.

 

I just read a few other things which threw me a little. I've read all your case and many other sites and have a full plan of action based around 2/4 in that I'll claim for the 15.9%, (or possibly the new rate depending on their reply) and go to court with that if needed.

 

No offence taken by the way, constructive criticism and guidance is a positive thing in my book. ;)

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if you like, later cos I have to go out now, I'll link you to some useful CI threads

 

Sounds good - thank you! :)

 

I'll post back when I get a reply and I'm sure lots of people, including yourself, will advise me on the next step :-D

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I got my 2 letters this morning from Colin Langdale saying he is looking into my 2 claims.

 

Do I reply or simply wait 14 days to see if they make an offer?

 

It is exactly 14 days today from the date my first letter was dated.

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Send out your LBA on time, alter the first paragraph to "you are disappointed with their response" and stick to your time table.

You have received standard responses to your letters intended to delay and/or dissuade you from recovering your money, I doubt very much if they have even looked at your claim.

pete

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Send out your LBA on time, alter the first paragraph to "you are disappointed with their response" and stick to your time table.

 

You have received standard responses to your letters intended to delay and/or dissuade you from recovering your money, I doubt very much if they have even looked at your claim.

 

pete

 

Thanks. What is an LBA though?

 

I was going to send a letter saying I was unhappy with their repsonse and say out of goodwill I am happy to give them another 7 days to settle the claim then go on about court action etc?

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LBA is a letter before action. Read this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/38807-newcomer-heres-user-guide.html

 

Up to you if you want to write your own letters or follow the course other people have taken and won. If you do depart from the standard templates and procedures here people will have great difficulty answering your questions and you will be to a great extent on your own.

pete

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LBA is a letter before action. Read this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/38807-newcomer-heres-user-guide.html

 

Up to you if you want to write your own letters or follow the course other people have taken and won. If you do depart from the standard templates and procedures here people will have great difficulty answering your questions and you will be to a great extent on your own.

 

 

pete

 

Thanks.

 

I am following the procedure, I've just read several sites where people have won on all of them. This is the best one though so I'm happy to take advice.

 

In terms of the LBA letter on the link, do I follow it exactly word-for-word? It has this section which I wasn't sure whether I include:-

 

Additionally you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

I'm not sure I have a default against my name or does everyone who is claiming back charges?

 

This is why I asked the previous question as it seemed a little off topic? I used the CAG template for my first letter and added the reciprocal interest element for my 15.9% interest charged which was taken from another site. Should I not have done this?

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Most people won't have default notices against their name to check whether you have you can use a service like Experian to find out. If you haven't got defaults against your record then you don't need to include the section in red.

 

I don't think that there will be a problem in adding the contractural interest at this stage. All I would say is that the arguments for claiming it can be complicated and the banks don't like to pay so make sure you read threads on this site related to claiming contractural interest. :-)

Guide to claiming back your bank charges

 

Most of your questions can be answered by following this link.

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contractual interest should have been claimed from the outset i.e. prelim letter. very complicated, and needs to be understood fully before claiming it.

If i've been helpful in any way....then tip my scales over there!

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contractual interest should have been claimed from the outset i.e. prelim letter. very complicated, and needs to be understood fully before claiming it.

 

Thanks guys. :D

 

I did claim for contractual interest from the outset as I'd read on another site that this was the best way. It's only recently I've homed in on this site for "sole advice" by which time I'd sent my letter.

 

In all 3 accounts (2 x HSBC, 1 x Natwest) I've been overdrawn for the full 6yrs at all times so this shouldn't be a problem really and I'd hope they make an offer along these lines but even without any interest it's still £3k so I'll be happy.

 

Anyway, letters gone back to Colin today saying I was disappointed with his reply and the standard LBA from this site so here's hoping!

 

:)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Morning guys.

 

It's now day 15 since I posted my letter so if I've not heard tonight I'll be preparing for my court precedings.

 

I need some help/advice though please. I sent my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), Preliminary and LBA as per the site but went for unauthorised contracutal compound interest on my claim. I based this on the argument that their "unlawful" charges are reciprocal and I can therefore charge them the same.

 

I didn't really know about this site until after I sent the letter so I used some other advice - is this ok. I am strictly 100% CAG now!!!

 

Here is some brief background:-

 

Unauthorised borrowing rate (at the time 15.90%) was charged daily to every charge dating back to August 2001 when I/We opened the accounts.

 

2 claims went in based on this (figures at the beginning of the thread)

 

Both totals are well below £5k for Small Claims Court.

 

 

Do I simply do the MCOL route and add my basic charges plus my 15.90% and that's it or do I back down from the 15.90% and simply add a flat rate of 8%.

 

This is a crucial stage for me as I want to make sure I don't get screwed here.

 

Please help me :confused:

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