Neighbour Dispute

[Isiris]

Our house has the 2 normal neighbours on either side and the two neghbours at the bottom.

 

For some reason, one of them at the bottom thinks he is a cross between neandrotholic man and He Man. His children must have been bored today and decided it would funny to start smashing the already dammaged fence.

 

I own 2 rottweilers who particularly hate other dogs. When I walk them I muzzle them and never let them off the lead as they hate other dogs.

 

Now like I said, the fence was in no ways perfect, but it did serve a purpose of preventing their dogs entering our garden (A little jack russel cross and one of a similar size) but now, their dogs can quite easily get into ours.

Be under no illusion, if my dogs saw them in our garden, they would kill them. Be under no illusion.

 

The damage to our physical view is negligable as we have massive lilandee (sic) trees so cannot see the fence damage

 

Is their anything I can do to protect my position

[jampot]

Your deeds (if you are a house owner) will show who is actually responsible for the upkeep of the individual boundaries.

 

Not that I condone them damaging it, but if it was already damaged, and it turns out NOT to be their responsibility (but yours) then you may have a weaker argument.

 

You say there is a "dispute" but have you actually spoken to this neighbour and perhaps reminded him of his duty to keep his dogs away from yours? He may or may not know what his kids have been doing...

 

The difficulty is, though, if you make someone aware (by signs or otherwise) that you have dogs which may be dangerous, that in itself doesn't absolve you from responsibility. Quite the reverse, in fact. If I was in your position, I would be making sure there was no way his dogs could come into your garden. By temporary means if necessary, whilst you argue about the responsibility for mending and maintaining the permanent fence - but you can't rely on the fact that your dogs are on "your" land as a defence against them harming another person, and I fear that harming other dogs may well fall into the same category.

[Isiris]

Sorry, I meant to add, I have been round and this was the conversation quite literally with the neandrothol

 

Excuse me, but your kids are bashing the fence down at the top of your garden that devides ours

 

So

 

Well if your dogs get in my garden, I cant be responsible for their safety nor that of you kids if they get in.

 

Way, the fence is knckered anyway

 

Im not doubting that, but it did serve a purpose

 

Whatever

 

At this point my wife grabbed me as she knew I wanted to rip out his throat so we walked away.

 

 

I have the deeds but have no idea how to tell who is resposible for what

[jampot]

Doesn't sound very promising that he cares enough to do anything about it, even if it IS his responsibility...

 

That said, I still think you have a responsibility to step in and protect "his" dogs, even if he isn't going to do so. I have dogs (Dalmatians) and cats - I picked the breed specifically for its amiable nature towards other animals, but I grew up with GSDs so I know exactly what you mean.

 

But if there was ANY possibility that my dogs could get out of the garden and pose a danger to themselves or road users, I would be fixing it first and worrying about responsibility later. Slightly different in your case, but I think the responsibility is the same.

 

My neighbour (who I really really don't get on with) has greyhounds. He warned me the week I moved in that if my cats ever went into his garden, his dogs would kill them. Unfortunately there is nothing either of us can do about that - he (and you) chooses to keep a breed which can be quite violent towards the "wrong" animal - but I made it clear that I consider it his responsibility if such a thing happens - in law, he is responsible for the actions of his dogs. The same isn't true of my cats...

[Isiris]

Jampot

 

Cats and dogs ok

 

But if his dogs come on my garden, surly that is his resposibility to stop his dogs from straying onto my garden as much as it is my responsibility to stop my dog attacking his.

 

If his dogs are on my land, surly I can not be deemed liable for his neglect.

 

Do you know how to tell the responsibilites for the boundrys. I hae loads of plans with red lines round but no joy.

 

Also the house is privately let where they live.

[jampot]

I've certainly read of cases where "guard" dogs protecting their owner's property from burglars have bitten an intruder and the owners have been successfully sued...

 

I've just taken a quick 5 mins whilst writing this post, and it appears that:

 

"The Animals Act 1971 provides that the keeper of an animal is liable for any damage it causes, if he knows it was likely to cause such damage or injury unrestrained."

 

So, whilst he has a duty to keep his dogs out of your garden, that doesn't override your duty to ensure that your dogs don't attack them.

 

As I've said... hopefully as a responsible dog owner, your primary concern is that his dogs don't get killed or seriously injured. That surely overrides any argument about responsibility. If you have to take steps to prevent it from happening, then argue about it afterwards, that's got to be the best way forward - otherwise it really is just an accident waiting to happen.

 

The thing is, if you KNOW it will happen, you MUST prevent it, whether his dogs stray into your garden or not.

[jampot]

I can't remember the markings on the deeds which show boundary responsibility. Generally, in a normal street, you are responsible for one (of the 2) side boundaries plus the portion of the rear which forms part of your plot.

 

However, as your garden at the bottom doesn't just back onto public space, but onto another 2 gardens, it isn't clear without looking at the plans.

 

If you can find out who manages / owns his property and contact them, it might be the best course of action in the long term. If they think he has deliberately damaged it, they can claim from him directly. But if you think there might be "issues" in the short term, you really should consider some temporary measures just to be safe. The welfare of the animals is the biggest concern.

[chocolatte]

First things first, as this is quite obvioulsy a dispute, then I would write down exactly what when and where, so you can refer to these records if, at a later date, they are needed.

That done, and as you have approached your neibour in a calm and civilised manner, the next step would be to establish who owns what and who's responsibility it is for the fence.

When you have established that, then you can proceed forward to either repair the fence (if your resposibility), writing him a letter asking for him to pay/half pay, as it was his kids who damaged it.

Or, if it is his fence, then write to him explaining the consequences of his kid's actions and you are asking him to make good.

If all that fails, then it's up to you what you want to do next, legally I mean?

Hope this helps, and by the way, these are just my opinions, I am not an authority on this, so it's up to you to decide what to do.

Good Luck (kids and animals eh?)

Regards

Cally

[Isiris]

Looking at the act again there are some interesting points that seem to have been missed

 

5 Exceptions from liability under sections 2 to 4

 

 

(1) A person is not liable under sections 2 to 4 of this Act for any damage which is due wholly to the fault of the person suffering it.

 

 

(2) A person is not liable under section 2 of this Act for any damage suffered by a person who has voluntarily accepted the risk thereof.

 

 

(3) A person is not liable under section 2 of this Act for any damage caused by an animal kept on any premises or structure to a person trespassing there, if it is proved either—

 

 

(a)that the animal was not kept there for the protection of persons or property; or

(b) (if the animal was kept there for the protection of persons or property) that keeping it there for that purpose was not unreasonable.

(4) A person is not liable under section 3 of this Act if the livestock was killed or injured on land on to which it had strayed and either the dog belonged to the occupier or its presence on the land was authorised by the occupier.

 

 

 

Section 4 quite clearly states, if the live stock (Their Dog) was injured on my land that it has tresspassed.

 

 

Please dont think I am arguing any of anyones points, just I could not believe for a moment that I would be wholly liable for the actions of someone who struggles to string a sentance together with words of more than 2 sylables (Though What ev er would push that limit)

[johnhowell]

I have the deeds but have no idea how to tell who is resposible for what

Isiris,Looking at the deed there may be little "T" or "H" attached to the boundaries. The boundary feature is the responsiblity of the property with the T in it. The H is actually two T's back to back signifying joint ownership.These markings are generally shown on original deeds but NOT on the Title plans you can get from the Land Registry.If you have the original deed the boundaries may be described in the text and may then indicate responsibility.John

[Isiris]

Thanks John.

 

No H or Ts on this one. I remember our last house and going to the solicitors to view the deeds and she showed me the boundries and resposibilities. Nothing on this one

[johnhowell]

Isiris,

 

You could ask one of the "nice" neighbours if they have an earlier deed plan which may show the boundary feature responsibilities on it.

 

You could look up and down the line of the back fence and find an original/early fence which may have the fence posts on one side of the panel (rather than the latest fashion for centred posts). This is not an official rule but a good rule of thumb of ownership.

 

John

[chocolatte]

Please let us know the actions and outcome of this Isiris, it may help someone else in a similar position.

Regards