Bullyboy V Barclays help needed with final stages prior to Pre-lim hearing

[bullyboy]

Sent my original letter by recorded delivery and got this reply very promptly, now what do I do? do I stick with my original timescales or do I have to stick to their timescales? Any ideas would be appreciated

Bully

Mr xxxxx

Xxxxxxxx

Xxxxxxxx

Xxxxxxxx

Dear Mr XXXX

Thank you for your letter received at this office on 5 September 2006

I am sorry that you are unhappy with the charges you have incurred. Your comments are receiving attention and one of my team will contact you as soon as possible.

May I take this opportunity to explain that whilst we will endeavour to respond to your letter within the timescale outlined in your letter, we cannot guarantee that we will do so.

Sometimes it does take longer to fully investigate a complaint. However we do aim to find a solution within 4 weeks. If we are not able to do so, we will always write to you explaining what is happening. A full report or an update on our progress will be sent to you within eight weeks.

Please refer to the enclosed leaflet which provides you with a more detailed explanation on how we will deal with this matter.

Should you wish to discuss this matter further, please do not hesitate to contact us on 0207 1164561 or via Freephone 0800 282390

Yours sincerely

Customer Relations Manager.

[barracad]

Stick to your timescales.

 

Also when you send the next letter, don't bother using Recorded Delivery. There really is no need - just an ordinary First Class stamp will do.

[bullyboy]

Thanks for that I will stick to my 14 days I just did not want to fall foul later on.

[taff999]

i had same letter do i just amend tamplate accordingly as they havent denied bank charges are wrong?

[bullyboy]

Just recieved an offer from Barclays with no strings attached for £1000 for a claim of £3450 my question is do I have to reject that offer or can I proceed direct to litigation as I have no intention of accepting the offer?:?

[Michael Browne]

If this is an offer after your LBA send this:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/25716-rejection-settlement-offer.html

 

and file at moneyclaim 14 days after the date of your LBA

[victimnomore]

Are you sure its "no strings attached"? That would be very odd for Barclays as they usually make their offers conditional on being accepted as "full and final" settlement. Certainly, if they have made that mistake then bite their hands off!!

 

But, whether they've attached conditions or not, you can answer with "I accept, but ONLY as part payment".

 

See the letter template here.

[bullyboy]

I'm about to initiate the online money claim against barclays I have read the FAQs and feel pretty confident that I have correctly compiled my statement only thing outstanding is how long I have been with the bank 20+ year I think. Any helpful tips before I embark later on today/evening would be appreciated. One question due to personal circumstances I have overshot my own timescale for intiating court action by 3 weeks will it cause a problem?

[Welshman]

Hi, and Welcome.

 

Perhaps you could phone the Banks' Customer Services and ask them when you first opened the account.

 

You do not need to be exact, mine was "around 1983" and that was acceptable to the Court.

 

As for overshooting your own timescale, that shouldn't cause you any problems. It's when you don't give sufficient time that problems could arise. The Courts are generally satisfied as long as you have given at least the minimum time as outlined in this site.

 

Once you've filed, you need to print out two copies of the schedule which include the 8% interest and send one to:

 

The Court Manager

Money Claim Online

Northampton County Court

21-27 St. Katharine's Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

 

quoting your Claim Reference number on the schedule.

 

and the other to:

 

Barclays Bank PLC

Litigation and Disputes team

Level 29

1 Churchill Place

London

E14 5HP

 

with the reference number on the letters they have been sending to you.

 

With each Schedule,enclose a covering note asking that they attach it to your file and that you've sent a copy to the other party.

Good Luck

 

 

 

[bullyboy]

Thanks for that will take your advice and will keep the forum informed:smile:

[bullyboy]

I have had an aknowledgement of my claim from the court with Barclays saying they intend to defend all of the claim, What next?

[Michael Browne]

Look at steps 7-9 here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31460-step-step-instructions.html

[bullyboy]

Sorry it took so long to get back to you as I work away all week and do not have access to external e-mail, Thanks for the assistance, they have said they intend to defend so I guess I have to wait 28 days and hope it does not get as far as court as I would have to give up at least 2 days contracting which would mean a finacial loss of up to £400 for me plus travel, hopefully it will not come to that and they will settle and I get my dosh and can make a donation to this fabulous site

 

Bullyboy

[bullyboy]

I have received a notice of Transfer of Proceedings to my local court and a questionaire to fill out as Barclays are going to defend this is what they are saying.

 

• The particulars of the claim do not provide details or particulars of the precise charges alleged to have been unlawful, or the date thereof. To the extent it is alleged that the claimant incurred bank charges on his account for the unauthorised borrowings (whether unpaid fees for returned cheques, “paid referral fees” or any other such fees), the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof of each charge and date thereof.
  
• The Defendant is entitled to charge the Claimant for unauthorised borrowings by reason of its standard terms and conditions. The Claimant accepted the same when the account was opened, (including in particular but with out limitation) the following terms and conditions (which are summarised):

• The Defendants right to charge a “paid referral fee” where the Defendant pays an amount (either by compulsion or election) which causes the account to become overdrawn - £30 per item (previously £25)
  
• The Defendants right to charge an administrative fee if any cheque, standing order or direct debit cannot be paid because of insufficient cleared funds in the account -£35 per item (previously £30).
  
• The Defendants entitlement, if the Claimant becomes overdrawn without an overdraft limit, to charge interest at the unauthorised borrowing rate on the excess balance.

• The Defendants standard terms and conditions give the Claimant fair and transparent view of the terms and the charges applicable for unauthorised borrowings (including where the account is overdrawn without an overdraft limit or where the claimant exceeds his authorised overdraft limit)
  
• If and to the extent it is the claimants’ case that the failure to make necessary payments and / or failure to remain within the authorised overdraft constituted a breach of the terms applying to the account and the contractual entitlement to debit charges from the claimants’ account constitutes a liquidated damages clause, the same is defined. The charges constitute payments the claimant agreed to make by reason of the terms and conditions of his account and were consideration for the Defendant advancing credit to the Claimant, which the defendant was under no obligation to advance. The defendant was entitled to impose such charges and interest when the Claimant incurred the overdraft.
  
• Accordingly it is denied that the legal principles relating to liquidated damages clauses and penalty charges were relevant or applicable to the facts set out above. Further or alternatively it is denied that any such charges constitute unlawful penalty charges or are in breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 or are in breach of the Unfair (Contracts) Terms act 1977 (or any other provision) or are unreasonable within the meaning of s 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (or indeed any other provision)
  
• Therefore, it is denied that the charges were unlawfully debited from the account.
  
• If and to the extent that the Claimant incurred charges on his account, this was caused by the Claimant having gone into overdraft without having agreed with the Defendant an authorised overdraft facility or to increase the overdraft facility and / or his failure to make payments to bring the balance of the account back into credit.
  
• It is averred that the said charges and interest are and remain lawful and enforceable and that the Defendant was entitled to debit the same. Accordingly the Claimant is not entitled to a declaration by the Court as to the enforceability of the said charges.
  
• The Defendant denies that it is liable to the Claimant for the sums claimed and interest as pleaded by the Claimant or at all. If the alternative, which is denied if the said charges amount to sums payable on breach of contract, it is averred that the charges asserted by the Claimant to have been applied to the account prior to 6 November 2000 would not be recoverable for reason of exhaustion of time in bringing in bringing contractual claims from the date of accrual, pursuant to the limitation act 1980.
  
• In the alternative, and without prejudice to paragraph 6 above if (which is denied) the said charges and interest or any part of are unlawful or unenforceable as alleged by the Claimant or at all, the Defendant has nonetheless suffered loss and damage as to the consequence of the Claimants breach of contract in allowing the account to go into unauthorised overdraft. Accordingly, in the event that the Defendant is unable to rely on its express entitlement to enforce to enforce the charges as set out in paragraphs 2 to 3 above, it will seek to recover to the extent necessary such loss and damage as it actually suffered, which will not necessarily be limited to the value of the said charges, and the Defendant seeks to set off such sums against any liability owed hereunder to the Claimant.
  Barclays Bank PLC

What does this all actually mean?

Bullyboy:?:

[hellsbellz]

I have just had that back myself - just fill in the AQ, put in schedule of charges and cheque if necessary. It is apparently all just a standard defence in which they try to intimidate and confuse people into dropping their claims by using a lot of jargon. The defence doesn't even make any sense as they claim

The particulars of the claim do not provide details or particulars of the precise charges alleged to have been unlawful, or the date thereof. To the extent it is alleged that the claimant incurred bank charges on his account for the unauthorised borrowings (whether unpaid fees for returned cheques, “paid referral fees” or any other such fees), the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof of each charge and date thereof.

When they have been sent those spreadsheets with the charges on more than once and the only reason you could have made that spreadsheet was by using information they gave you! I found Welshman and JackieJ 's threads very useful. Good luck

[bullyboy]

Received a letter this morning from the court it says

District Judge XXXXXX has considered the statements of case and upon review of the court

It is ordered that:

1. The claim be allocated to the small claims track

2. The Claim be listed for further directions only at a preliminary hearing on the 27th April 2007 at 15:30 to be held at Norwich County Court (time estimated 5 mins)

3. At this hearing the court will consider either:

a) to stay the claim pending the decision in a test case involving the defendant, or

b) to give directions for this claim to be heard as a test case, and if necessary to reallocate the claim to the multi track for that purpose.

4. Not less than 14 days before the preliminary hearing, the defendant shall file with the court and serve upon the claimant details of any cases proceeding as a test case, the decision of which will determine the issues in this claim. Alternatively the defendant shall file with the court and serve upon the claimant draft directions for this case to proceed as a test case.

5. The claimant may make any representations to the court in writing provided these are received by the court and served on the defendant not less than 5 days before the preliminary hearing. If either party is prepared to abide by the decision of the judge as to the directions to be given, that party is excused from attending the preliminary hearing.

 

 

Is this normal? what does it mean and more importantly do I have to do anything any help, pointers or assistance would be gratefully received

 

Bullyboy

[Bicester1]

Hi. CPR rule 27 deals with preliminary hearings:

 

Preliminary hearing:

27.6 (1)The court may hold a preliminary hearing for the consideration of the claim, but only –

(a)where –

(i)it considers that special directions, as defined in rule 27.4, are needed to ensure a fair hearing; and

(ii)it appears necessary for a party to attend at court to ensure that he understands what he must do to comply with the special directions; or

(b)to enable it to dispose of the claim on the basis that one or other of the parties has no real prospect of success at a final hearing; or

©to enable it to strike out (GL) a statement of case or part of a statement of case on the basis that the statement of case, or the part to be struck out, discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing or defending the claim.

(2)When considering whether or not to hold a preliminary hearing, the court must have regard to the desirability of limiting the expense to the parties of attending court.

(3)Where the court decides to hold a preliminary hearing, it will give the parties at least 14 days’ notice of the date of the hearing.

(4)The court may treat the preliminary hearing as the final hearing of the claim if all the parties agree.

(5)At or after the preliminary hearing the court will –

(a)fix the date of the final hearing (if it has not been fixed already) and give the parties at least 21 days’ notice of the date fixed unless the parties agree to accept less notice;

(b)inform them of the amount of time allowed for the final hearing; and

©give any appropriate directions.

 

 

 

No its not normal and it looks as though the judiciary want to make you a test case! The Bank may back out they dont want a test case.

 

Go to the preminary hearing and let us know what happens!

 

Bicester1

[bullyboy]

Thanks for that I will keep you all posted about what happens between now and then, any tips on preperation would be appreciated.

 

Bullyboy

[carmen.blanch]

HI we have got exact same letter court 2nd feb .. are you going to attend ours is in ipswich ..

we are quite worried . Is it likely that they will stay the case ?

If we do attend can we ask that it is not stayed and ask for a hearing

 

We have prepared court bundle do we need to take to the court / send to barclays

[bullyboy]

Hi there, I'm definately going to attend my pre lim in April, if it gets that far that is. What is in the court bundle that you are taking? I haven't put anything together yet just copies of everything sent and received to date.

Good luck with your pre lim hearing lets us know how you go on

Bullyboy

[carmen.blanch]

its a printed copy of infor suggested on here ,, hoping will be settled before that ,, our letter say eact same as yours but states allocation hearing and 15mins allowed ..

are they the same thing do you know

[Guest Mumofthreeboys]

It is normal, I have mine on Thursday 25th January.

[Bicester1]

Hi

 

Preliminary hearings are not the norm in small claims track - see Patricia Pearls book page 99.

 

An allocation hearing is not the same as a preliminary hearing. It is dealt with by CPR rule 26 and Practice Direction 26. It is used when it is possible that the case may not qualify for the small claims track on £ grounds or there is an issue of dishonesty making small claims unsuitable.

 

It is not a formality and you must attend or risk strike out and costs!

 

ALLOCATION HEARINGS 6.1 General Principle

The court will only hold an allocation hearing on its own initiative if it considers that it is necessary to do so.

6.2 Procedure

Where the court orders an allocation hearing to take place:

(1)it will give the parties at least 7 days' notice of the hearing in Form N153, and

(2)Form N153 will give a brief explanation of the decision to order the hearing.

6.3 Power to treat another hearing as an allocation hearing

Where the court may treat another hearing as an allocation hearing it does not need to give notice to any party that it proposes to do so.

6.4 The notice of allocation after an allocation hearing will be in Forms N154, N155 or N157.

6.5 Representation

A legal representative who attends an allocation hearing should, if possible, be the person responsible for the case and must in any event be familiar with the case, be able to provide the court with the information it is likely to need to take its decisions about allocation and case management, and have sufficient authority to deal with any issues that are likely to arise.

6.6 Sanctions

(1)This paragraph sets out the sanctions that the court will usually impose for default in connection with the allocation procedure, but the court may make a different order.

(2)(a)Where an allocation hearing takes place because a party has failed to file an allocation questionnaire or to provide further information which the court has ordered, the court will usually order that party to pay on the indemnity basis the costs of any other party who has attended the hearing, summarily assess the amount of those costs, and order them to be paid forthwith or within a stated period.

(b)The court may order that if the party does not pay those costs within the time stated his statement of case will be struck out.

(3)Where a party whose default has led to a fixing of an allocation hearing is still in default and does not attend the hearing the court will usually make an order specifying the steps he is required to take and providing that unless he takes them within a stated time his statement of case will be struck out.

 

 

Bicester1

[bullyboy]

Not that Barclays have offered yet, but do you have to settle out of court or could you force their hand to go to court so that a precident is set? Just wondering what the score was as my court date is not until the 29th April, and I was wondering if it might be worth the calculated risk (losing) of doing it.

 

Bullyboy

[gizmo111]

Not that Barclays have offered yet, but do you have to settle out of court or could you force their hand to go to court so that a precident is set? Just wondering what the score was as my court date is not until the 29th April, and I was wondering if it might be worth the calculated risk (losing) of doing it.

 

Bullyboy

 

If you are offered the full amount, you must accept before court hearing.

This is a small claim in a county court and a win wouldn't set a precedent anyhow.