PC World

[SAH]

New user. The story so far. laptop purchsed from PCW march 06. Failed Nov 06. returned to store, examined and told to call tech guys. TGuys called info left, call expected 48hrs later with collection info. No call so left it another week or so called tech guys again. Same info provided and same promise to collect. Still no response. Inbetween times took computer into local specialist for data recovery. They commented that it was a mother board problem.

Wrote to PC World explaining problem so far asking for a response and threatening small claims court. Call next day from store with a request for me to contact TGuys again. Did so and surprise surprise no return call. Wrote agin to PCW saying small claims action unless full refund or new machine within 24 hrs. No response. Received letter from Hewlett Packard saying that they have been trying to contact me. Called HP got though after 20 mins, corrected contact telephone number which they had got wrong and asked them to call my daughter whose laptop it is, to organise collection. No response so tried to get through to them twice and spent 45 mins on each occasion not getting through.

Commenced small claim in January expecting PCW to call it a day.

PCW claim that they are going to defend and issued their defence which basically says yes they sold it, yes they had calls (no reference to letters) and yes they had the wrong tel number but in anycase it was upto us to contact HP and for good measure we had kept the goods for so long that we had lost our rights. They have now submitted application for Directions to court which requests inspection by their own engineer.

 

I have responded to the Directions by objecting to the PCW engineer on the grounds that their instore engineer has already seen it, it has been seen by an independant engineer and for good measure referred the court to the Computing Which article concerning the quality of PCW engineering.

I have also responded to their defence with further clarification.

 

Any comments or views on the above would be appreciated. It seems like PCW try bully boy tactics probably on the basis that a fair percentage of people will be intimidated and give up.

[Guest Zooman]

It depends what you have claimed, it should be damages under the sale of goods act, to the value that it cost/will cost you to correct the issues. I do not think you can claim a refund or a replacement and one hopes that is not what you claimed. I do not think it is unreasonable for you to allow them the chance to inspect the hardware, in fact I would arrange for it if it was me.

 

As you will know after six months you have to prove the fault, so I would also recommend an independent inspection and report done. This may be good time to contact them and say you believe that it would be in the best interests of all parties if a independent inspection was carried out and ask them to forward a few names local to you.

 

Also it is the store you have a contract with not HP so that is out of the window and you should point this out.

 

This is all guess work on my part, without seeing your claim and their defence I unable to comment further.

[rosiecotton]

Yes, if you are claiming the cost of repair and you have already given them a reasonable opportunity to repair in store (which seems to be the case), the claim should succeed.

 

You won't be entitled to reject the goods outright and claim a full refund as too much time has passed. However you would be entitled to a repair if it was proven that the goods were faulty and this was not down to customer damage or wear and tear (wear and tear would be unlikely after this length of time!).

[spikeachu]

Why don't you just advise them that they have taken in excess of 28 days to action a repair and under their own policy, you are entitled to a replacement?

 

Seems a lot easier than going down the whole small claims court line. If they've attempted to book a repair, then they have already acknowledged that there is a fault and if it was first reported in November, there could hardly be a dispute about it taking in excess of 28 days.

[SAH]

Many thanks for all of the comments. my claim is for the original cost of the machine plus about £50 for data recovery in the event of PCW failing to act in a timely manner to repair the computer. My only other option would be to have the computer repaired and claim that cost I suppose. The 28 day info posted by Spikeachu is very interesting and not something I was aware of. Can you direct me to this bit of specific info in the conditions of sale as it is probably worthing bringing this into the discussion and to the attention of the court.

As a general comment, I would hope that the court will see that we have made all reasonable efforts to allow PCW to reapir and as they have failed to do so, claiming a full refund is not unreasonable.

[rosiecotton]

You may get a judge who agrees with you, you may get one who awards you the cost of repair, if it comes to it I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

[spikeachu]

The 28 day policy is not listed on their website, but it should be in the literature that would have been attached to your receipt or given to you at the time of purchase.

 

To be honest, their customer services team are well aware of it and i'm reasonably certain that if you contact them on 0870 2420444, select the option for complaints and mention it, upon verification of your complaint, they'll resolve it for you much quicker than the court systems.

[PKea]

The 28 day policy is not listed on their website, but it should be in the literature that would have been attached to your receipt or given to you at the time of purchase.

 

To be honest, their customer services team are well aware of it and i'm reasonably certain that if you contact them on 0870 2420444, select the option for complaints and mention it, upon verification of your complaint, they'll resolve it for you much quicker than the court systems.

 

I think that its gone beyond this, as they have filled papers at court.

But it is good info for anyone else who hasn't got this far against PC World

[spikeachu]

It was just a suggestion. They can usually turn these complaints around in a few hours and guarantee a replacement.

 

The court system can take months and still might only award the cost of the repair. Don't forget that the Sale of Goods act is also there to protect retailers and I doubt they would choose to defend the case if it was a guaranteed loss. I would hazard a guess that a legal team costs a lot more to put out than a repair or a replacement PC, so they must be reasonably confident.

[PKea]

Spike, I didn't mean to dismiss your sugestion, if that was how it came accross.

 

I agree that your route would have been better in hindsight, but as the court ball is rolling i believe that they would have to continue down this route.

If they stop , they will lose thier costs and their credability, especially if they they then try another tactic, because they wouldn't have a decent case if they try to go down the court route again if the other tactic failed. (Does that make sense?)

[JAMESYBOYHAIL]

i bought a laptop from pc world last year,when i bought the laptop i belived that if there was a fault it would be repaird by pc world,when i took my laptop back to them they put me on to tech guys.i phoned them told them they would come and collect it but never did.

[rosiecotton]

Best to start your own thread James, if you're seeking advice on an issue.

What did you do after this call to chase them up?

[JAMESYBOYHAIL]

nothing my laptop started working again but now it isnt,it is a problem with my screen,but i just plug in my old monitor and use that.

[SAH]

We now have a court date for a directions hearing in early May. Nothing further from PCW. I have spoken to Customer Support who confirmed the 28 day repair policy and said an exchange is due. Why hav'nt PCW litigation come clean?. We are about to write to them (copies to court) asking for a response.

[Guest yourbestfriend]

Called HP got though after 20 mins, corrected contact telephone number which they had got wrong

 

Ever thought that when you told them in the initial phone call that you should have checked they had the right number.

 

How about the second time you called them.

 

or the third.

 

if i had a faulty laptop and i knew that PCWorlds policy is next day courier service .. i would be asking myself.

 

"hmm why are they telling me they will call back in 48 hours. have i phoned the right department"

 

"all i want is a courier or engineer cant they book it now, why wait 48 hours"

 

i would have done 3 things. and this is advice to everyone for all future problems with any call centres.

1. "why do you have to call me back, cant you put me through to the department that arranges repairs"

2. "ok can i just check my telephone number i gave you"

3. "48 hours is a stupid obsurd amount of time to arrange an engineer, whast your name and ill call you back in 20 minutes."

[spikeachu]

 

if i had a faulty laptop and i knew that PCWorlds policy is next day courier service .. i would be asking myself.

 

"hmm why are they telling me they will call back in 48 hours. have i phoned the right department"

 

"all i want is a courier or engineer cant they book it now, why wait 48 hours"

 

i would have done 3 things. and this is advice to everyone for all future problems with any call centres.

1. "why do you have to call me back, cant you put me through to the department that arranges repairs"

2. "ok can i just check my telephone number i gave you"

3. "48 hours is a stupid obsurd amount of time to arrange an engineer, whast your name and ill call you back in 20 minutes."

 

This process really is restricted to HP, who insist on repairing their own products under manufacturer's warranty. PC World's repair department diagnose the fault only, HP arrange the courier, the repair and return of the product.

 

On diagnosis of a fault, HP are informed and then HP contact the customer directly within 48 hours.

 

Unfortunately, there's not much that the retailer can do to speed up this process.

[SAH]

The final chapter.

Wrote to PCW as I said in my last post (copies to court) asking them to confirm that the 28 day policy existed, explain why we had not been advised of it at any time during the excahges to date and finally confirm that they would abide by their own policy.

The result was a call from their solicitor the day after they received the letter with an offer to settle the full amount of the claim.

PS The day before we received the offer, we had a call from them asking us if we would accept a 3 way telephone hearing with the court. Told them no, we wanted a hearing in person.

[Guest ian cognito]

Well done, just shows you sticking to your guns and researching thoroughly will get you there in the end. Again CAG has shown it's worth, well done you guys for the advice and info, I doubt many people are aware of the 28 day policy. Great news.

[Guest yourbestfriend]

im sorry but if i had a faulty laptop and said please call me back my number is 01888 888 889 when actually it was 01888 888 888 then this is not classed as a breach on the sellers side. this is just a mis-understanding of your contact number.

pcworld still did pass your details onto HP so pcworld just did not give up and so they done everything in their power to rectifiy the issue as soon as possible. by proof of this you received a letter from HP trying to call you. so obviously they did pass your details to HP.

Received letter from Hewlett Packard saying that they have been trying to contact me. [unquote]

 

after your second call

Same info provided and same promise to collect. Still no response.[unquote]

 

so this is the second time you told them your telephone number and still the number not correct, starting to seem less likely.

they do not just arrive they need a contact number to call you to arrange a suitable time. especially when the laptop is not at your residence.

asked them to call my daughter whose laptop it is, to organise collection.[unquote]

 

also from that november 06 time of notification to january you yourself admitted using the laptop further

 

also without access to the product or the ability to contact you to arrange access you are in breach of the act as you are not giving them the option to replace or repair.

 

although you gave them your home address a time or date still needs to be arranged. its like you tood them your laptop is at home waiting to be picked up. and then hanging up. not giving them your telephone number at all.

 

this is another reason why retailers get the customer to call the manufacturer direct.

 

retailers would have a right to take you to court and win. i would say you were lucky they decided your mere £550 laptop and backup charge was not worth the hassle.

 

you were lucky as they could have taken you to court and kept it going for months. you did not win, you were lucky.

 

and for anyone else.. ask for the telephone number of the people to organise te repair, in this case HP. especially if you are waiting more then 48 hours. dont wait a week. call them and then wait another few weeks then try threatening them.

 

i could call up a retailer now and say the product they sold me was faulty

and say it is at home waiting for them. until they arrange a time which is suitable to come to my house then they cant do much else

 

the buyer has the responsability of allowingas much access to the product as possible to remedy the issue.

 

on the buyers side for everyone to note check everything. especially if you have to make 2 calls. check if they tried to call. check why not. etc.

 

in the sellers side. pass the buyer the contact detailers of the repair department/ manufacturer rather then the customer services telephone number. also check customers details with the customer twice.

[Bookworm]

im sorry but if i had a faulty laptop and said please call me back my number is 01888 888 889 when actually it was 01888 888 888 then this is not classed as a breach on the sellers side. this is just a mis-understanding of your contact number.

 

I do not see that OP said anywhere that this was a breach of contract.

 

pcworld still did pass your details onto HP so pcworld just did not give up and so they done everything in their power to rectifiy the issue as soon as possible. by proof of this you received a letter from HP trying to call you. so obviously they did pass your details to HP.

Irrelevant.

 

so this is the second time you told them your telephone number and still the number not correct, starting to seem less likely.

Irrelevant and only your personal opinion.

 

also from that november 06 time of notification to january you yourself admitted using the laptop further

No, he doesn't. He said he took it to a speacialist for data recovery, which is not the same thing as using. In any case, I fail to see the relevance.

 

 

also without access to the product or the ability to contact you to arrange access you are in breach of the act as you are not giving them the option to replace or repair.

Nonsense. He did give them a contact number. Breach of what act?

I think I see a pattern emerging, where you're trying to create a scenario where OP has a failing laptop, deliberately gives wrong numbers, deliberately stops access to the machine, for the sheer sake of taking them to court, and achieve.... what, exactly? the price of the laptop? Considering that by the time he goes to court, he would have been without a laptop for months, and that specs change all the time, it seems like a huge amount of trouble compared to what would have happened if PCW had carried out their job properly, IMO.

A judge will look at the balance of probabilities, and IMO, the above scenario seems a lot more improbable than PCW simply failing to write a telephone number correctly twice in a row.

 

although you gave them your home address a time or date still needs to be arranged. its like you tood them your laptop is at home waiting to be picked up. and then hanging up. not giving them your telephone number at all.

Again, your opinion, and again, one that doesn't make common sense. Who would try and arrange repairs and then just hang up?

this is another reason why retailers get the customer to call the manufacturer direct.

That's very sweet of you to think so. The prevalent opinion, however, is that they do it because they do not want todeal with it themselves and prefer to pass the buck.

 

 

retailers would have a right to take you to court and win. i would say you were lucky they decided your mere £550 laptop and backup charge was not worth the hassle.you were lucky as they could have taken you to court and kept it going for months. you did not win, you were lucky.

 

Total and complete nonsense. Take him to court for what? For having a dodgy laptop?

As for "keeping it going for months", you need to watch less American courtroom dramas, and find out a bit more about the way Small Claims Court works. As it is, they have kept it going for far longer than was necessary, and only caved in when it was clear that OP was prepared to see things through, a technique, may I add, seen and used far too often by big companies.

 

and for anyone else.. ask for the telephone number of the people to organise te repair, in this case HP. especially if you are waiting more then 48 hours. dont wait a week. call them and then wait another few weeks then try threatening them.

 

Incorrect and very bad advice.

Your contract is with the retailer, and by bypassing them, you are invalidating your rights under SOGA. A very dangerous move, which could end up costing you more than time.

 

the buyer has the responsability of allowingas much access to the product as possible to remedy the issue.

No. The buyer has the responsability to arrange a suitable time for collection/repair, and be there at the arranged time, and that's it.

 

OP won because PCW knew they had little chance of winning, full stop.

[patdavies]

 

That's very sweet of you to think so. The prevalent opinion, however, is that they do it because they do not want todeal with it themselves and prefer to pass the buck.

 

 

Re-arrange the following into a well-known phrase or saying:-

 

nail hit head on the the

[jamesbond]

well said bookworm!!

the problem with these major electrical retailers is that they pass you from pillar to post to get work done and as bookworm rightly says this does play havoc with your rights under the soga.

my advice to anyone with a problem such as this is to take it directly to the retailer concerned and allow them to send it off for repair and you collect from the retailer when repaired, sadly this is not always accepted by the retailer or sometimes the article is just too big to move to them directly yourself.

they pretty much make the complaints and handling of faulty goods difficult for the consumer and to be honest i feel that it should be stopped by statute and the retailers forced to handle the situation from beginning to end.

my experiences of pc world and the repair of my lap top was absolutely terrible and the times i was let down on collection of the faulty laptop was

unreal.

i kept on badgering them and eventually got it collected and repaired, but was left with a very bad view of pc worlds handling of my laptop problems,

and sure as hell would not use them again for another similar purchase.

i am so glad you got settled and well done for sticking to your guns!!! 007

[patdavies]

they pretty much make the complaints and handling of faulty goods difficult for the consumer and to be honest i feel that it should be stopped by statute and the retailers forced to handle the situation from beginning to end.

 

It is stopped by statute - it's called the Sale of Goods Act - it's just that the neither the consumer nor the store staff seem aware of their rights under statute for the most part.

[SAH]

My final work on the matter. I am not sure what the intention of yourbestfriend is other than to mislead and mis interpret. He has clearly not read or understood the situation. His knowledge of law seems questionable and his comments contribute nothing to the discussion. Why waste your time typing rubbish. I suppose every forum has one just like every village.

[demon_x_slash]

Trouble is, if s/he goes uncorrected, then unwary people may actually believe hir...