Strange No Entry Signs!!

[Howard0181]

A friend of mine recieved a PCN via CTV from Tower Hamlets for going through a "NO ENTRY" sign.

 

Sorry no photos but hope I can describe situation.

 

My question is this. Are the "No Entry" signs in the wrong place? and if so what can be done?

 

Description:

 

1. The road my friend was driving is a road with one right turn.

 

2. Just before the junction with the road on the right there are two "No Entry" Signs on either side of the road.

 

3. The section of road my friend was driving allows two way traffic. The road to the right also allows two way traffic. The road ahead is just one way (against the driver).

 

4. I would have thought that the "No Entry" signs should be placed after the junction and not before the juncton to allow a right turn. There is no sign saying "no right turn".

 

5. So this means that when you get to junction you have to do a U Turn.

 

Any thoughts?

[Howard0181]

This is the PCN

 

London Borough of Tower Hamlets

PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE

Road Traffic Act 1991 (as amended)

London Local Authorities Acts 1990 to 2003

 

Penalty Charge Notice to: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Penalty Charge Notice number: XXXXXXXXX

 

Date of this Notice: 23/03/07

Date of Contravention: 08/03/07

 

The Council believes that a Penalty Charge is payable with respect to the above vehicle for the folowing alleged traffic contravention

 

Failing to comply with a no entry sign

a no entry sign

 

in (place) Fieldgate Street, E1

 

On (date) 08/03/07 At time XXXXX

 

The alleged contravention was noticed by camera operator XXXX who was observing real time pictures from the road side camera at the time stated. The alleged contravention is supported by videtape evidence.

 

 

DO NOT IGNORE THIS NOTICE

 

Before the end of the period of 28 days begining with the date of service of this notice, you must pay the penalty charge of £100 (if you pay before the end of the period of 14 days begining with the date of service of this notice you only have to pay £50. See overleaf for payment details. (part payment not accepted).

 

Or, you can make representatons agains paying the Penalty Charge. The legal grounds oo which you make representations are set out overleaf. The council is also able to exercise discretion, where other mitigating circumstances apply. Once representations have been considered we will inform you of the decision and will if neccesssary inform you of how to appeal to the Independent Traffic Adjudicator.

 

If you do not pay or make representations the charge will increase by 50% to £150 and we wil serve a Charge Certificate seeking payment of this increased amount. At that stage, it would be too late to make any representations.

 

Below there are two still images from CCTV

[PKea]

have you got the images that you can post?

What were all the road markings at the junction like? This will have have an impact on the notice. ie do they show that the lane ends? usually chevron style markings

Also what road signs were there at the beginning of the road he/she was on? was there a 'Dead End' sign?

[PKea]

going to have a look on google earth to see if i can see the junction layout

 

Also which road was he turning into?

[Howard0181]

I have 2 images on my computer but not sure how to post them here.

[Howard0181]

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[Filthy Monkey]

Looks clear from the picture that there are no junction lines and no dead end signs. Very ambiguous!

[Rob S]

Would the council have needed to get a traffic regulation order to enable them to put in a no entry restriction at that point?

[Howard0181]

My friend says there could be a sign at the begining of the road. He is checking.

[Glenn UK]

this is probabyl a question better asked on peeipoo i think its called.

 

I would have to say though that as much as the design could have been better, the junction is clearly marked no entry in the direction the picture is taken from (i presume this is the view the cirver would have also had) and its marked on the road too.

 

Unless theres a bit of law somewhere that says the no entry has to be delinieated in someway which this junction doesnt conform to, i cannot see the driver having a leg to stand on.

 

As i say its probably best to ask on a specialist site for technical info on this kind of issue.

 

If you cant fidn peeipoo post back and ill see if i can find alink

 

Glenn

[PKea]

I think, from the picture, its quite clear that its no entry.

Signs each side of road and NO ENTRY painted on the road.

 

You would have a hard time defending this one, also it is a raised junction too, that you are driving onto if you proceed.

 

The site Glenn mentioned is PePiPoo: Helping the motorist to get justice

 

I guess that this route was a traffic rat run at one point, so they have brought in these measures to combat this

[Howard0181]

Thanks for the replies.

 

So what this sign means is that it is legal to drive to this section of the road but you then either have to either reverse or do a U turn.

[PKea]

Thanks for the replies.

 

So what this sign means is that it is legal to drive to this section of the road but you then either have to either reverse or do a U turn.

 

Yes Basically, it is allowing access up to this point in the road, then you would have to do 'U turn' to drive back down the other side of the road to get out.

[LittleMissSunshine]

Thats a confusing area!

I would imagine that if its a no entry area that a couple of metres before the junction you will have a warning saying that end or something like that. Otherwise if there are cars behind you, you cannot reverse, and turning looks near to impossible there, especially with cars from the other road.

 

Also i cannot really see if its a junction. Is it still possible to do a right turn? Or are you not allowed to go right also?

 

I would indeed go with what the rest say and go to professionals. See if they can make sense. Also maybe ask the department of transport, road signs division, to ask what to do in this situation. Oh and maybe show the police the picture. Maybe they can explain the rules here. Make sure you get from everyone something in writing.

 

I imagine your friend is not the only one going wrong there and looks like a cashcow to the police/local council.

 

Let us know what the result is.

 

LMS

[Howard0181]

The road to the right is two way traffic.

[Glenn UK]

The road to the right is two way traffic.

 

how do you deduce that?

[PKea]

how do you deduce that?

 

As Glenn states

I'm guessing, looking at the sign position on that street on the right, that that street is one way towards the junction

[Glenn UK]

LOL

 

Howard was the OP so perhaps he knows for a fact rather than having to deduce the fact

 

Glenn

[PKea]

A friend of mine recieved a PCN via CTV from Tower Hamlets for going through a "NO ENTRY" sign.

 

He said its his friend

[Glenn UK]

PKEA

 

Perhaps his friend told him!!!

 

ROFL

[PKea]

I think we're going round in circles and at cross purposes here Glenn,

 

LOL

 

Anyway The road to the right will probably be an opposite layout of the junction the driver passed through.

Rigth bear with me know and i will try and explain.

 

Car drives up road to No Entry (Up to this point it is 2 way)

Road opposite is one way- They can only go straight ahead go down road car has driven up.

Road on right is two way FROM junction and not through the junction ie. cars can drive up to the junction and turn left only or they could do a U turn and drive back down.

As this is a raised junction the junctions are narrowed, to restrict the traffic flow.

 

Clear as mud?

[Howard0181]

Thanks, I will ask my friend again about the road to the right. I am pretty sure it is 2 way traffic.

[PKea]

My guess to junction layout

 

 

I should have been a junction designer...lol