Walking Possession Info

[daz_f]

if a bailiff comes round and writes down my car on the form as a vauxhall vectra when in fact it is a astra

 

is that still legal levy if he got the discription wrong

[Guest ChloeJane]

Yes, but no.

 

Technically, you could argue that an item you did not own (make of vehicle wrong) deemed the levy invalid.

 

As the make is wrong, you can move the car and if questioned you can produce documentation that you do not own the car as stated on paperwork, however if the registration number is correct, then you would be hard pushed to use this arguement.

 

It is a difficult one, as the Bailiff has a right to levy on goods if payment is not received, but the levy must be on goods correctly.

 

Is this a parking fine council tax or magistrates court matter?

[daz_f]

council tax

bill is paid in full and i phoned the council who confirmed this.

they told me to contact bailiff who was dealing with it.

i contacted rosendales who said the council will inform them in due course.

they said if you have paid the council and when it is confirmed to them

or if the bailiff does come round in the mean time show him proof of payment.

then that will be the end of it.

 

2 weeks later i get a letter saying that i still owe the £150.

just wanted to know if i could do anything with this £150 if he did make a error on the wpa

i did not sign it

[setmefree]

The Walking Possession Must Be Signed By Yourself Otherwise Where Is The Proof He Entered Your Property,also You Could Argue That He Sat Outside Looked At A Car He Thought Was Yours Hence Wrong Make And Then Drove Off:)

[demon_x_slash]

Was the letter from the bailiff company? You need to write to the council asking for written proof that you have cleared all outstanding arrears, and for their agents (the bailiffs) to be informed of this. Once you get the council's letter of proof, and if you get any more letters from the bailiff company, send them a copy of the proof letter and have no more to do with it.

[toddle2u]

The WPO does not have to be signed by the debtor - however the information contained within it must be correct and in this instance it isn't so the Bailiffs do not have any possession over the car.

[The Watcher]

The WPO does not have to be signed by the debtor -

 

They HOW can anyone be sure that it has been accepted by the debtor (or that the debtor is even aware of it)?

[toddle2u]

It doesn't have to be accepted by the debtor - the information contained within it has to be correct i.e They can't just put TV down they have to put make and model etc. It is this information that they use to prove that they have actually seen the possessions (i.e. been inside the property). If it was as simple as the debtor not signing the WPO everyone would refuse to sign and would make WPO's useless as a means of debt recovery.

[The Watcher]

It doesn't have to be accepted by the debtor - the information contained within it has to be correct i.e They can't just put TV down they have to put make and model etc. It is this information that they use to prove that they have actually seen the possessions (i.e. been inside the property). If it was as simple as the debtor not signing the WPO everyone would refuse to sign and would make WPO's useless as a means of debt recovery.

 

But if the debtor refused to sign the WP the bailiff could simply take the goods?

 

A WP is an agreement - between the debtor and the bailiff - on a future course of action, surely?

 

How can you prevent unscrupulous bailiffs from simply looking through the window and listing items? You can recognise most TV's just by looking at them (and later finding a model number would not be too difficult esp if they were "regulars" at this !)

[toddle2u]

The WPO is not an agreement between the debtor and bailiff. It simply lists the goods in possession at the property at the time of their visit and that you cannot sell the goods or remove them as the bailiff has walking possession over them. A WPO is normally used when the parties have come to an agreement over a repayment plan or you have agreed to pay at a future date. The bailiff uses the WPO as his 'security' that if you don't make the payments he has recourse to your goods.

The reference to a TV was simply as an example. There is nothing anyone can do stop bailiff compiling a list through the windows but if you can prove that they didn't visit your property or gain entrance i.e you were at work and have evidence to prove it they are going to look pretty stupid in any legal action.

[The Watcher]

The WPO is not an agreement between the debtor and bailiff. It simply lists the goods in possession at the property at the time of their visit and that you cannot sell the goods or remove them as the bailiff has walking possession over them.

 

How can this be enforced if the debtor has never signed it - and has therefor not accepted its terms?

 

A WPO is normally used when the parties have come to an agreement over a repayment plan or you have agreed to pay at a future date. The bailiff uses the WPO as his 'security' that if you don't make the payments he has recourse to your goods.

 

Again - there is NO agreement unless the debtor has signed the WP!

 

The reference to a TV was simply as an example. There is nothing anyone can do stop bailiff compiling a list through the windows but if you can prove that they didn't visit your property or gain entrance i.e you were at work and have evidence to prove it they are going to look pretty stupid in any legal action.

 

This is simply absurd - just looking through a window will give the bailiff absolutely no idea what goods belong to whom ... and also prevent any kind of explanation, as to who the goods belong to, whether they are on HP etc.

 

I'm sure you are wrong about this.

[The Watcher]

In order for a walking possession order to be valid, a bailiff should have gained peaceful entry to the property and seized the goods.

 

It is not enough for a bailiff to list items that they have seen through a window and push a walking possession order through the letterbox for you to sign and return.

 

You should never sign a walking possession order in these circumstances.

 

Taken from - Debt Basics - Bailiff Guide - know your rights

[setmefree]

Having Had Personal Experience With A Walking Possession,the Bailiff Told Me That I Needed To Sign It Also The Goods Written Down Must Be Brand Named Reference Elctrical Goods I.e. Alba T.v. Etc Etc This Could Not Be Achieved By Looking In Through A Window

[toddle2u]

Watcher - I have not signed many WPO's but even without my signature they are valid.

There are no terms as such for you to agree to with a WPO - there are just facts of what you are able to or not able to do with the possessions once a WPO is in force.

Your comments are out of context and really have no relevance to the facts - even if you do not sign a WPO it is still valid.

[The Watcher]

Watcher - I have not signed many WPO's but even without my signature they are valid.

There are no terms as such for you to agree to with a WPO - there are just facts of what you are able to or not able to do with the possessions once a WPO is in force.

Your comments are out of context and really have no relevance to the facts - even if you do not sign a WPO it is still valid.

 

Let's agree to disagree until someone with more knowledge comes along.

 

Personally I'd sooner believe the advice of the Insolvency Service. It simply makes no sense to keep doors and windows locked if a WPA can be made by looking through a window !

[toddle2u]

Again you are missing the point. I have not said that a valid WPO can be made through looking through a window - just that some Bailiffs have tried this route. The fact is that if you don't let them through your front door they can't get a valid WPO.

[The Watcher]

From your message at 17.10 -

 

 

There is nothing anyone can do stop bailiff compiling a list through the windows.

[setmefree]

A W.p.o Has To Be Signed Because You Are Signing Your Goods Over To The Bailiff, This Then Gives Him The Right To Return At Any Time And Collect Them If You Default On Your Payment Plan.

I Hope This Clarifies Matters

[setmefree]

What is a walking possession agreement?

A walking possession agreement means that the goods that have been seized now legally belong to the bailiff and can be removed at any time. However, s/he will allow them to remain in your home and you can continue to use them providing you keep your side of the agreement, e.g. you make agreed payments. In order for a walking possession order to be valid, a bailiff should have gained peaceful entry to the property and seized the goods. It is not enough for a bailiff to list items that they have seen through a window and push a walking possession order through the letterbox for you to sign and return. You should never sign a walking possession order in these circumstances. There is a daily charge for a walking possession order that you must pay, on top of the original debt you owe if they are sold. Remember that goods will be sold at public auction and typically will sell for about 10% of their original value. This means that if you owe £50, a bailiff will probably try to seize goods to the value of at least £500.

A bailiff must only seize goods that belong to the person who owes the money, although any goods in the house can be seized for distress or rent. In practice, many bailiffs will attempt to seize any goods of value at a house they visit - it will be up to the individual to prove ownership afterwards. If you have receipts showing someone else bought the goods then you should show the bailiff these.

[The Watcher]

A W.p.o Has To Be Signed Because You Are Signing Your Goods Over To The Bailiff, This Then Gives Him The Right To Return At Any Time And Collect Them If You Default On Your Payment Plan.

I Hope This Clarifies Matters

 

Thanks - exactly as I thought.

 

If the agreement (and you have to have 2 or more parties to an agreement) was not signed then there would be no way to enforce it on the debtor.

 

It is obviously as much for the convenience of the bailiffs as for the debtor. It is not always possible to seize (and remove) goods at the time, and if the title has transferred to the bailiff (so that he has authority to sell them on) then the goods (without a WPA) would be goods belonging to the bailiff - but stored on the debtors premises! (I wonder if there has been a test case where a debtor has charged a bailiff for storage?)

[setmefree]

more to the point watcher if there is an electrical fire caused by one of their goods who has the bill

[toddle2u]

At the risk of sounding repetitive if a bailiff gains peaceful entry to a property he is at liberty to list the goods in that property on the WPO. The debtor does not have to sign the WPO for it to be valid. The WPO is not the repayment agreement. If the goods at the premises are not the debtors then it is upto them to prove this to the bailiff

[The Watcher]

If - as you continually claim - a WPA is valid even if no one has signed it or accepted it, can you explain why people are asked to sign it at all?

[setmefree]

If you are unable to pay the debt in full and need time to make the payment, the bailiff will normally enter into a ‘walking possession’ agreement with you. He will make an inventory of goods in your house up to a sale value of the debt and his costs. You will be required to sign this and there will be an additional levy fee and walking possession fee to pay. Provided you keep to your agreement to pay the bailiff there will be no additional costs.

 

www.northlincs.gov.uk/NorthLincs/CouncilandDemocracy/

 

www.wolverhampton.gov.uk/government_democracy/council/council_tax/bailiff_information.htm

 

Walking Possession: Where the debtor signs an agreement which allows the goods to stay on the premises without supervision until payment or the goods are removed for sale.

 

The Department for Constitutional Affairs

 

[Spandavia]

council tax

bill is paid in full and i phoned the council who confirmed this.

they told me to contact bailiff who was dealing with it.

i contacted rosendales who said the council will inform them in due course.

they said if you have paid the council and when it is confirmed to them

or if the bailiff does come round in the mean time show him proof of payment.

then that will be the end of it.

 

2 weeks later i get a letter saying that i still owe the £150.

just wanted to know if i could do anything with this £150 if he did make a error on the wpa

i did not sign it

 

Hi Daz,

 

I'm curious (being in a similar position) - are the bailiffs claiming £150 for outstanding council tax or is it for bailiffs fees? Also, have you actually paid the bailiffs any fees for their visits?

 

best wishes

Span