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    • Should have ignored them from day one    Never give them pers financial details only a judge can demand said    Send them a cca request They'll never have a signed agreement. Bye bye debt   dx    
    • As far as I'm aware the local council don't have any information on the land. I will tell her to get some legal.advice about it. Thanks for your advice it's much appreciated 
    • Hi I would welcome some advice please.  I have been a CAG member for some time and you have helped in many ways.   Way back in October 2007 I took out a loan with Black Horse Finance for £4,000 to pay for a new central heating system that I was forced to install when I had to move into an old mid-terraced house.    The problems with this house got worse over the years and in October 2012 the account was assigned to MEIV who traded under the name Marlin. Also at that time my affairs were being handled by a Debt Management Company.  This company, Money Worries, subsequently disappeared with the MD being chased by Greater Manchester Police.    There followed a long and painful period with Marlin whereby they constantly stated there was no payment plan and I stated that there was.  They claimed no payments had been received and it was down to me to try and sort the mess out.  I said at the time that I would maintain the same payment as I had been to the DMC which was £12.25 per month.  I implemented a Standing Order to this effect.    Marlin, of course, wanted an Income / Expenditure form so they could (obviously) try and pressure me to pay more.  I wrote to Marlin saying their actions could amount to harassment but they continued to maintain there was no agreement and passed the account over to their so-called "solicitors", Mortimer Clarke.   in April 2014 enter Mortimer Clarke who were still, like Marlin, just agents.  As 'solicitors' they started threatening legal action, enclosed an Income / Expenditure form and demanded that I fill it up - effectively disclosing all.  A month later they wrote saying their 'client' had told them to start legal proceedings but actually nothing happened, maybe because it was already beyond 6 years.  They threatened CCJs and credit being "impacted" etc.    I discover that Marlin had actually increased the debt by £500 by slapping on punitive interest. After finally getting them to realise that there was a plan, whether they liked it or not, they removed the interest. I then made a reasonable offer, I felt, to increase the monthly payment to £20.  They came back again demanding their sacred Income / Expenditure form.    thanks to CAG I informed them about 'reasonable' offers of payment and Court Protocol rules and just went ahead and implemented the £20 a month. Back they came saying the offer had been accepted on a "concessionary" basis - whatever that's supposed to mean. In March 2016 they seemed more reasonable and continued the £20.   In October 2018 they try their tactics again and I respond with a strongly worded letter about harassment and follow through on my telephone promise to increase the monthly payment to £25.  Surprise, surprise, this is accepted!  All is then peaceful and calm until February this year when they start again.    As things are somewhat better for me the monthly payment is increased to £60 but now in September they're back again.  Now I know you will say I'm foolish but this time I completed their damn Income / Expenditure form but again, foolishly, I gave them figures based on our total family income.  I am retired as a full-time carer to our disabled son.  My wife is in paid employment but wants to build up savings to start a business idea that she has every chance of succeeding in. I gave them global figures for total Income and Expenditure as how much pocket money I give my son is of no relevance!   They are now saying on the basis of the figures I gave them that I have £494 disposable income and that their 'client' (i.e.MEIV) wants the monthly payment to rise to £345.80.  I am furious.  They have given me 14 days to accept ......or else!!      I am thinking I should do a new IE form based solely on my income and the expenses I pay each month but I thought I would come to you guys first.  If this were to go through it would leave us, as a family, with not much over a £100 to cope with emergencies.   Many thanks in anticipation.    
    • Has a check been made with the local Council Authority regarding the land ?   Usually Councils will have charts showing the land/boundaries in their area.   I know local to where I live there is land with disputed ownership, as documents are missing. There is then a claim process through land registry which you are going through. Because the land was not claimed or part of the property purchase 5 years ago, I believe that land registry are correct, that the landlord would have a 12 year period in which to register a claim for the land. Land registry won't as far as I know actually contact the landlord to make them aware. It would be up to landlord to find out.   There may be a process for there to be an agreement made between Mum and landlord now. Depends on how reasonable the landlord is. But there may be a cost involved in this process drawing up legal agreement for landlord to waive any rights to claim ownership of the land.  Seek formal legal advice from someone qualified to see if this is possible and if so how much legal fees would be.
    • Hi not sure if I'm posting in the right place here so apologies if I'm not. I don't know if anyone can help but basically my mum has been living in her house since 1997 and there is a piece of land that she has used and looked after since moving in there.she was a tenant in the house until she bought it around 5 years ago. She has recently tried to claim the land through the land registry (possessor title I think) however she had something back from them saying her landlord from when she was renting would be allowed to claim the title for the land or she would have to start her 12 years wait again from.when she purchased the property. Is there anyone that can give some.advice on this as I don't see why her previous landlord could.claim the land when they weren't the ones looking after it. Any advice is appreciated. Thankyou
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Silentnight vs Woolwich


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Hi just to officially state that I sent off my PAR (Recorded Delivery) to my local branch of the Woolwich on 31st March, a copy was faxed to their head office in London, so they should both have received them yesterday, although the recorded delivery is not showing up at the moment (on line).


I am taking the bull by the horns and have gone the contractual interest route. I could not find the wording for this in the templates library, could anyone suggest suitable text I can enclose with my next letter due to go out once the 14 days are up, (or once their 'too-good-to- refuse' letter is received from them!)


I am a little apprehensive at the moment as I have not come across any threads using this method with the Woolwich yet.


Any advise at this stage would definiately be welcome. I am currently enjoying reading through the reams and reams of threads on this site and would like to thank all the volunteers for their dedication and support, without you the battle against the banks would not be enjoying the great come back they deserve!:razz:



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Just to update on my thread, I have today received a letter from Diana Smith, Team Leader of Woolwich's Retail Banking Customer Relations in Bexleyheath, Kent, as follows:



Retail Banking Customer Relations Branch Customer Care Team Watling Street, Bexleyheath, Kent DA67RR

Tel: 02082984944 Fax: 01322 552765


2 April 2007


Mrs xxxxxxxxx



Our reference: xxxxx


Dear xxxxxxxxx


I am sorry you have had to contact us about your account. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to do so.


I am looking into your concerns and will let you have a response or update as quickly as I can but no later than 1 May 2007. In the meantime if you need to speak to me please call 0208 298 4044. I have enclosed a leaflet explaining how Woolwich works to resolve complaints. I hope you find this helpful.


Thank you for bringing this to my attention.


Yours sincerely



Diana Smith

Team Leader

Retail Banking Customer Relations

Branch Customer Care Team


Enc. Customer Complaint Leaflet



So far so good... am looking forward to hearing from them soon as promised! Interesting to note that they are not using any of the addresses I had sent my original letters to, but still, I shall wait and see where the next one comes from.


Does anyone have the correct wording for going down the compounded contractual interest route I could have a look at for my next letter please?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just a quick update, having not heard anymore from the Woolwich I sent my 2nd letter (LBA) on Monday 16th April, recorded delivery, so far all is quiet, which I suppose may be good news!


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copy in Jackson House Clacton,,,, thats whom I got my offer from today! I didnt get any joy from Bexley Heath or Barclays London!! nothing, not a dickie bird


Thank you I will do!

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I am preparing my POC ready to take down to the court on Monday 30th, could someone please have a look at it and tell me if it is ok. Also I am finding it impossible to list all of my particulars as there isn't enough space, can we enclose a separate piece of paper?









1 Churchill Place


E14 5HP


Brief details of claim


The Claimant seeks the return of penalty charges and overdraft interest charged thereon debited to the Claimant's bank account by the Defendant, and interest on these amounts as defined by the contract between the parties.




Penalty Charges in the sum of £2,506.00 and interest charged thereon in the sum of £4.07. Interest to be determined as the Court deems just, as per section 6 of the attached Particulars of Claim, with the maximum to not exceed £1,679.91 a maximum total of £4,183.20. Plus administration costs at hourly rate of £9.25 for 50 hours worked, total £462.50, total costs claimed £4645.20. Plus compounded contractual interest of 27.5% according to section 6 of the attached Particulars of Claim from date of issue to date of judgement or earlier settlement at a maximum rate of £1.69 per day or at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.



name and




1 Churchill Place


E14 5HP


Amount claimed £4645.20

Court fee £NIL

Solicitor.s costs £NIL

Total amount £4645.20


Particulars of Claim (attached)(to follow)


1. The Claimant opened a Woolwich classic current Bank Account xxxxxx ("the Account") on or around 6th September 2003.

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating, the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these Particulars of Claim.

4. The Claimant contends that:-

a)The charges debited to the Account, as outlined in the attached schedule are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or relate to any alleged actual loss but, instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit. In the event that the charges are not a penalty, they are unreasonable under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 section 15. The Defendant has declined to justify the charges.

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) paragraph 8 and schedule 2(1) (e), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 section 4 and the common law.

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

a) The return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £2,506.00.

b) Court costs.

c) The Claimant claims compounded contractual interest at a rate of 27.50% per annum from the date of each transaction to the 30th April 2007, which is £1679.91.

6. Defendant charges interest to the Claimant, via the Account at its published "unarranged overdraft rate" of 27.50%. The Defendant claims that it is entitled to charge this rate, by virtue of the Terms & Conditions. The unarranged overdraft rate is charged to the Claimant, via the Account, when the Claimant draws money from the Account whilst she has not obtained permission from the Defendant for exceeding any overdraft limit that she has. It is in effect, a rate that the Defendant charges the Claimant when she draws funds from the Defendant when she has no right for doing so.

7. Using that reasoning and maintaining the principal of equity, mutuality and reciprocity between the parties, the Claimant contends that she is entitled to an equal rate of interest in this case. The Claimant notes in particular that the Defendant erred in law, had no legal right to levy the charges to the Account and refused to refund the charges when asked to do so by the Claimant

8. If the terms and Conditions form part of the contract between the parties hereto, then there is an implied and/or imposed term of contract that the Defendant must pay the Claimant at the same rate of interest which it reserves for itself, in similar circumstances. If no express contract exists between the parties hereto relating solely to the Claimant’s right to charge interest to the Defendant at the rate which it reserves for itself in relation to similar circumstances.

9. In the alternative, should this Court not find that aforesaid implied and/or imposed contractual term does exist, Claimant claims interest pursuant to S69 County Courts Act. Interest, in that case, up until 30th April 2007 @ 8% amounts to £402.09 as detailed in Schedule B attached hereto.



Statement of Truth

*(I believe)(The Claimant believes) that the facts stated in these particulars of claim are true.

* I am duly authorised by the claimant to sign this statement


Full name xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Name of claimant.s solicitor's firm NIL

I really would appreciate some help with this please.

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Thanks for the look at your court letter, that will be my next line when the 14 days are up. It reads fine to me, but I am not experienced so hope someone will check it out for you. Good luck with your claim.

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Can a moderator please look over my N1 above as I need to hand this in on Monday. I have not had any offers from W at all, which is worrying, just one standard letter stating they would be looking into things. Getting a bit concerned now can anyone please help. Thanks.


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Hi SN,


can I ask a question. I'm just preparing my N1 as it will be going in at the end of this week as I've heard nothing from the W and I doubt they'll be accepting my offer anyway. I'll be almost copying and pasting yours from above, but where do you get the bit


with the maximum to not exceed £1,679.91 a maximum total of £4,183.20




not sure where this 'maximum' comes from?


thanks for any advice



EDIT...sorry..I found it...but I have another question...as these figures change between now and the court case, will that have any bearing on these 'maximums' ??


and how do I calculate the daily rate of interest? the contractual rate on my spreadsheet shows as being 11.35 or 0.45 for statutory, but this is very different from what you are claiming

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Hi there


Glad you found the figures, when it comes to the court case,


as these figures change between now and the court case, will that have any bearing on these 'maximums' ??


and how do I calculate the daily rate of interest? the contractual rate on my spreadsheet shows as being 11.35 or 0.45 for statutory, but this is very different from what you are claiming

what I did was put in the date I will be submitting the papers to court onto the spreadsheet ie for you it could be 04.05.07, and then enter the figures shown on the spreadsheet for the escalating daily costs, ie on mine it is £1.69 per day, also the monthly interest rate, ie mine is 2.05%. But I am going down the compounded contractual interest route, so the statutory 8% is slightly different with lower figures in both cases. Hope this helps. Good Luck. I am handing mine in tomorrow as I had a busy day today.

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Thanks SN,


I've prepared it all and everything is now ready to submit, BUT....bit broke this month so will have to wait another couple of weeks...not a good situation because every day in delay is longer they have my money...but when you have bills to pay etc, these must come first.

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I didnt go to court, I didnt even start leagle proceedings


Please see my thread called "I got my money back" and it will tell you who I wrote to, and her email address


I just put on the sob story of being a single mother, and how thier continued fines, rolled onto the next month - never giving me a chance to recover financially.

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Another update, received a letter today from Barclays which read:




Barclays Customer Relations Team Woolwich Openplan Service Centre Jackson House, Jackson Road C1acton on Sea, Essex, COlS IWH



Dear Mrs xxxx


Account Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxx


I refer to the Woolwich's acknowledgement letter of 2 April 2007.


May I say how sorry I am to learn that you feel the bank charges you have incurred are unfair. In your correspondence you have referred to elements which you feel support your claim. Barclays is aware of the information you have drawn to our attention. I must inform you, however, that we disagree with your view.


When an account is opened with us, our customer is provided with a copy of the Terms and Conditions relating to the use of their account; including details of our charges. This information clearly explains our obligations to our customers, as well as their obligations to us. If we make any changes to the Terms and Conditions, we provide details of these changes to our customers in line with the Banking Code. Details of our Terms and Conditions, along with our charging tariff, can be obtained at any of our branches, or via our Internet site,



Despite my comments above in relation to your views, on this occasion, and without any admissions of liability, I am willing to offer the sum of £2,074.00 towards the total amount you are seeking. This is with the cost and inconvenience inherent in a further dispute in mind and is intended as a gesture of goodwill, in full and final settlement of your complaint. If you would like to accept my offer please sign and return the enclosed form in the pre-paid envelope provided. I will arrange for the payment to 'be credited direct to your account within ten working days of receipt of your acceptance at this office.


In accordance with our standard practice, if I do not hear from you to the contrary within eight weeks from the date of this letter, I shall assume that your complaint is resolved and c1ose my file.


Jessica Fairbairn

Customer Relations Manager


I will of course be declining their kind and most generous offer as it falls far short of my claim and I actually filed my N1 with the court yesterday, so they will no doubt be hearing from the courts in due course!

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Sorry to hear of your dilema,


....bit broke this month so will have to wait another couple of weeks...not a good situation because every day in delay is longer they have my money...but when you have bills to pay etc, these must come first.


I know the feeling, I was only able to do mine yesterday as I had remission on my charges! Hope things work out for you soon!



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Hi TT2


Well done on your success.


I didnt go to court, I didnt even start leagle proceedings


Please see my thread called "I got my money back" and it will tell you who I wrote to, and her email address


I just put on the sob story of being a single mother, and how thier continued fines, rolled onto the next month - never giving me a chance to recover financially.


I have replied on your new thread. Take care and enjoy!



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Quick update, further to Barclays generous offer and my conversation with them today on the phone I have sent this letter off to them:-




Ms J Fairbairn

Barclays Customer Relations Team

Woolwich Openplan Service Centre

Jackson House

Jackson Road



CO15 1WH




Dear Ms Fairbairn


Re: Account number: xxxxxxxxxx

Sort Code: xxxxxxxxxxxx

County Court Claim Number xxxxxxxxxx


Further to my telephone conversation with yourselves today, I confirm my thanks to you for your letter dated 01/05/07. I respectfully decline your offer as Full and Final settlement and request, once again, that you return to me all charges imposed on this account. My claim is for £4220.77 which includes the daily rate for claim as outlined in my Particulars of Claim, plus costs of £462.50. This claim will continue until payment is made in full totalling £4683.27 (see enclosed revised schedule).


You may not have been aware that I commenced legal action against you for the full amount plus interest and costs on 02/05/07 and the deadline for response is 18th May 2007. I would ask that you now refer this matter to your legal department for further instruction. I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder, through my County Court claim.


In order to avoid Litigation against you, I am prepared to temporarily accept the sum offered as partial settlement. Failure to comply with this request will result in my continuing legal action against you for full recovery, as detailed in my Letter Before Action.



Alternatively, should you wish to settle my claim in full, please forward the balance of the claim (£4,220.77 plus costs of £462.50) without further conditions and I will inform the court that the claim is settled. For the avoidance of doubt, I wish to stress that I do not accept your offer under the terms stated in your letter. I trust this clarifies my position.


Yours faithfully


Enc. Schedule of Bank Charges

CC The Woolwich, 1 Churchill Place. London


Very much doubt this will do much but at least the court can see I have tried to negotiate!



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Please getting really desperate can someone get a moderator to pm me or can someone tell me how to do it, I have tried without success, I also need to register my court case number on this site, but can't do it. Please anyone???

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Please will a moderator PM me URGENTLY or will someone please put this under a mod's nose, I need help urgently. I am unable to PM a mod directly, dont understand why.


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