Pcworld missleading saleperson. Customer services Fob Off

[sparkyreb]

Hello new to here seeking advice. below a letter to pcworld. sorry for the length but couldn't condense it. appreciate any advice.

 

After speaking to a member of customer services I'm sending in this email regarding a small but annoying problem that has arisen.

 

After purchasing an Advent 7110 Laptop from your ******** branch on the 17th Dec 2006, the young lady who served us told us that it would work with Windows Vista when it is released as it had a sticker indicating "Windows Vista Capable" We required a laptop at the time otherwise we would have waited till Vista was released and you were selling laptops preloaded with it.

 

Subsequently a few weeks ago I was pleasantly suprised to find out that I was eligible for a free upgrade via a company in Holland (Moduslink) once the online form and my reciept was faxed to them. Waiting expectantly at the moment. I browsed the Microsoft Vista homepage and after downloading and running the compatability program it gave the results that the graphics would not work namely the (Aero) feature of Vista on my laptop.

I searched more in depth and finding on Intel's website that the graphicschipset wouldn't work with The Aero feature.

 

I'm not at all happy as i was told at the time of the sale that it would work with Microsoft Vista. (The young lady seemed more agitated/pushy with selling me an extended warranty at the time and I wouldn't of been surprised if she'd admit to serving the pope to clinch an extended warranty sale) I had to repeat myself 4 times that i wouldn't like the extended warranty. was she more concerned with the warranty sale hence a shortfall on the technical knowledge?

 

There reply.

 

Thank you for your email of 30 March 2007.

 

The laptop Advent 7110 is capable of running Windows Vista Basic which is why it highlights this on the compatibility sticker. You would have to upgrade if you wish to install with the premium version or above.

The sticker doesn't mention only work on basic. it's the size of my thumbnail.

 

Wouldn't have bought it if it wouldn't work fully with Vista.

 

Where do i stand?

[blacksheep1979]

Well technically the laptop is Vista capable, unless you specifically asked if the aero feature would run then they haven't really done anything wrong and infact all they have done is quote what the sticker on the laptop says.

 

To run Vista properly with all the bells and whistles working smoothly takes a fairly powerful computer with a decent graphics card and at least 1gb pref 2gb of ram. It will run on a lower spec computer with 512mb ram and slower cpu, lower end graphics card but same with games you will have to turn down certain graphics settings and turn off certain features.

[spikeachu]

Unless you specified at the time of sale that you wanted the laptop to run the aero feature of Windows Vista, then the item has not been misrepresented.

 

If you asked if the laptop would run Windows Vista and the assistant answered yes, then she is correct, as it will and I assume is running Windows Vista, albeit the Basic version.

 

There are hacks out there to enable this feature, even if the system reports that it can't do it, although the performance of the laptop may be affected.

[blacksheep1979]

The other question has to be - why do you desperately want to run vista?

 

If its the supposed added security and the fancy interface have a look at linux with beryl as the windows manager. Far more secure and will run alot smoother/faster on your computer.

[spikeachu]

I tried it. Had problems installing my wireless adapters on it. ndiswrapper had real problems with USB adapters. Haven't tried for a while, so maybe this has been resolved.

[sparkyreb]

when I was in store looking over the laptops when the young lady served us I asked if this particular model will work with Vista and would there be any compatability problems she said no. There was no mention of a restricted version of Vista or that Aero wouldn't work. I had my partner who was buying me the laptop as a present and a friend with us as they wanted something from pcworld at the same time. They both witnessed the sales person stating there wouldn't be any problems running Windows Vista. Why have Vista if you can't utilise everything it comes with. Seems the Microsoft WOW factor once it goes through the PcWorld grinder turns into a sound something like a whoopee cushion.

 

spikeachu: How would someone know what question to ask when you're informed at the time of sale that it would work without ANY problems. You go into a store to seek there expert advise.

 

 

 

Advent 7110

1.7GHz Intel centrino processor.

1GB Ram

[spikeachu]

That's the point, Vista Basic will work without any problems.

 

If you bought a car but didn't ask if it had electric windows, you wouldn't consider it a problem with the car when you drove it away and discovered it didn't have them. Likewise, if you didn't ask and it had electric windows, you'd consider it a bonus.

 

In your case, the Aero feature is the equivalent of the electric windows, you just assumed it would be available as standard.

 

As you didn't ask the specific question, you cannot state that the item was misrepresented or that the assistant was misleading.

 

You asked if it will run Windows Vista and the assistant gave the correct answer.

[Spiceskull]

How would someone know what question to ask when you're informed at the time of sale that it would work without ANY problems. You go into a store to seek there expert advise.

I think what is more to the point is that when you bought the PC Vista hadn't been released yet...so therefore you didn't know what features to ask for...

 

TBH I think PC World have dropped a clanger here...it goes without saying that someone who needs to buy a PC, and has to ask advice in the shop, is not a tech wizard, and the shop should be more forthcoming with the pros and cons of the machine...PC World consider themselves experts, so this is something that they should have forseen...

 

When making the comparison with the electric car window, you could have said that if you didn't ask "will the car do more than 5mph" then they technically have not missold if it doesn't do 5mph...

 

Technically they have not missold, but in principle they have not been forthcoming with the problems you would be likely to encounter...would suggest going to your local branch and asking to speak to the manager...Aero is a feature of Vista, it doesn't work on the machine, ergo a poor sale.

[kabukiman]

Phoenix, you give them too much credit. On the whole They have no more tecnical expertise than you and I albeit a little light reading so as not to look stupid when asked about a particular product. After all sales foremost and the tec bit is a bonus.

[sparkyreb]

spikeachu:

 

If i bought a car and it had the windows down you'd expect to be able to wind them up. ergo you expect it to have this feature as standard pcworld and the rest of microsoft are whooping on how mutts nuts Vista is but doesn't make it too clear on what you get till it's too late. Even the techguys website states it meets the minimum requirements but doesn't state what it is. (why would I go onto techguys website or ask any questions pertaining to the ability of the graphics when I went into PcWorld for their advice) If I already knew??. If i was that good at reading the future I would have won the lottery and made an appointment to meet Bill gates and asked for his advice.

[sparkyreb]

Phoenix,

 

I've built 5 Desktop Pc's but know bugger all about laptops. This is my first purchase. can you upgrade the graphics???

[blacksheep1979]

nope not on a laptop you can't.

[sparkyreb]

Bugger.

Thanks Blacksheep.

[Curlyben]

Sparky, sorry to hear about your issues with PCWorld, but these guys are purley sales men and nowt else.

Now as already mentioned your machine will run Vista, as the sticker says.

These stickers come from Micro$oft and can only be applied on machines that can run it.

Your issue is really with how Micro$oft judges which machine are allowed to have the Vista sticker.

The MINIMUM specs for Vista will NOT allow it to run Areo and even the recomended ones would have problems.

 

BTW I am a Techie also I would advise against using this shop for anything except everyday consumables.

You'd be better off with Dell online, you can even talk to someone if you'd like.

[sheepdemon]

You asked if the PC would run Windows Vista, which it will. We have to tell the customers what we are told be the manufacturers, and M$ told us that the Advent 7110 would run Vista, so thats what we told you.

 

Vista will still run absolutely the same in basic or premium, the only real difference is the aero interface, which is naught but a big bloaty see through taskbar which hogs resources anyway

[Guest yourbestfriend]

PC World consider themselves experts, so this is something that they should have forseen...

 

Technically they have not missold, but in principle they have not been forthcoming with the problems you would be likely to encounter...would suggest going to your local branch and asking to speak to the manager...Aero is a feature of Vista, it doesn't work on the machine, ergo a poor sale.

 

1 thing to note.. i have watched a couple Tv adverts today for pcworld. also went into their shop yesterday to ask the friendly guys at my local store about their policies to answer another thread from here. and also looked on their website

 

not one single place does it say "we all have degree's" or "we are the experts" or "genius's found here". there hype and moto is computer SUPERSTORE and stamping down on prices.

 

in my store if someone wants some advice they pay, because they know im right with what i say. PCWorld dont charge so why complain about free advice?

 

2. the person has not been mis sold at all. using your example the person asked is there anything wrong with this car or is there anything missing from it. no there is not.

 

it is not miss selling as the computer can run on vista. it would take a ages to explain about every feature of each vista version aero, networking, media center. but the question was. what is included in the version of vista, or what can i use?

 

plugging in a printer is a compatibility issue. using aero on a vista basic machine is not. because basic was not designed for aero. like the car example you used is not designed for a engine from a Tank

[sheepdemon]

PC World consider themselves experts, so this is something that they should have forseen...

 

Nobody can forsee the ability of a customer to ask precisely the wrong question

 

When making the comparison with the electric car window, you could have said that if you didn't ask "will the car do more than 5mph" then they technically have not missold if it doesn't do 5mph...

Well no, its a given that a car will do a standard car speed. Its a given that a car will do a lot of things. Its NOT a given that the car you have bought will have tinted windows and alloy wheels. They are a feature of your NEIGHBOURS car, but did you bother to ask if they came with THIS car?

 

Technically they have not missold, but in principle they have not been forthcoming with the problems you would be likely to encounter...would suggest going to your local branch and asking to speak to the manager...Aero is a feature of Vista, it doesn't work on the machine, ergo a poor sale.

Bitlocker is a feature of Vista too, but its only available in Vista Ultimate. Does that mean every computer i've sold with Vista Premium is a poor sale too? God im going to have a lot of angry customers to deal with

[Spiceskull]

For thos who have issues with the "Windows Vista Compatible" label not measuring up to the reality, you may be interested to read that Microsoft is being sued (in the States) because this labelling is misleading, but ultimately Microsoft are sanctioning it...read more here...

[Guest retailpointofview]

OK tell me if i am wrong. the shop has to find a remedy which solves the problem within a certain time without costs to the customer and without too much inconvenience. (that paragraph was sarcasm not a question)

 

telling the customer to go to the manufacturer is a remedy. i dont think the pcworld guys know how to dust out a printer let alone repair anything.

manufacturers are the only fully trained people to fix it. they have the parts ready and waiting and you dont have to even leave your home. they come to you.

 

i think that legally covers all bases

 

if something went wrong for me, id call the head office to ask their procedures. for 1 its a phone call, alot cheaper then petrol. 2 by having their head offices involved from stage one is great ammo.

 

stores cant repair things there and then.

from experience and from asking judges in small claims,

(yes i know of 3! before you start arguing)

they all say that a customer can use the manufacturers gurantee to remedy the issue. and stores can ask the customer to use the manufacturer too as it is classed as a remedy.

 

they can get whomever they want involved as long as it solves the problem withing reasonable time, least inconvenient and without cost to customer.

 

but these are 2 things the retailer CANNOT do

1. Charge the customer for a repair where it is proved faulty and not reimburse them.

2. Don't offer an alternative repair, replacement, or refund remedy if manufacturer or their other repair options wont deal with it.

 

The retailer CAN ask you to pay for a repair or inspection. BUT if this is then proven as fault from purchase the retailer has to either not charge or reimburse the costs.

 

manufacturers gurantee's do not affect your legal rights. its a law that all manufacturers have to state this. going to the manufacturer will not affect SOGA at all.

 

all comments about retailers lack of responsibility are not 100% valid until after 12 months. from the many threads, each comment is that the retailer has asked you to go to the manufacturer.

to me id prefer this.

1. i wouldnot trust PCWorld staff with a printer for 5 minutes.

2. i dont want to leave it with them and pick it back up in a couple

weeks because i live 30 miles away (60 mile round trip) (120mile totla to drop of and pick up)

3. for pcworld to fix it or get their techguys involved is a waste of 48hours to book the techguys and another few days to get the part. lexmark have a next business day swap over policy.

 

honestly, what would you prefer??? pcworld or lexmark??

comet, currys, argos, and other retailers all use the manufacturer as a remedy.

Always seek advice from the companies head office first but do not go instore.

they are not repairmen so demanding a repair is like asking mike tyson for his mums telephone number and bra size

[blacksheep1979]

manufacturers are the only fully trained people to fix it.

 

erm complete rubbish - thats like saying the only place you can get your ford car fixed is at a ford garage...

[demon_x_slash]

You've already posted this post, word for word, in another thread. Patdavies has given you a very straightforward correction/reply there. Please don't double-post.

[blacksheep1979]

by any chance retailpointofview have you been here before under the name yourbestfriend?

[demon_x_slash]

lol

[rosiecotton]

by any chance retailpointofview have you been here before under the name yourbestfriend?

 

You beat me to it. I'd put money on it, if I had any!

[Guest retailpointofview]

lets reword it. manufacturers are the only EXTERNAL engineers the seller will recognise as being fully trained, so your friend down the road is no good no matter how qualified he is.

 

unless the seller's own repairmen, or external parties which THEY recognise. You will be going outside of the SOGA and could be affecting it if you wished to claim later.

 

it is not complete rubbish. To keep your rights you have to get it verified by the sellers representatives and the repairs have to be satisfactory to the seller too.

 

lets say you did not go to ford to get your car fixed and went to joe bloggs mechanics instead, be has a degree in engineering and 30 years expereince. if he then found out the engine was faulty and put a non ford engine in the car or a 1.8litre instead of the 1.6litre this can afect your rights. also by it not being diagnosed by the seller then the seller could see this as you trying to get a engine upgrade not a repair. again affecting your rights. sellers see the people who design it as being the only fully qualified people 100%. as they design it, have spare parts, etc, etc. there are many people 99.9999999% qualified to fix it but unless recognised by the seller, they might as well be 0% qualified when it comes to your rights.

 

i am not saying other garages are not qualified to fix ford cars. im saying that to keep your rights go to the right people.