Amex and AIC

[pete16]

I defaulted on an Amex credit card debt for £4,000 and got a call from AIC (Allied International Credit) requesting immediate payment. They refused to accept any payment terms, and suggest I get a friend or family member to pay it for me. That is not possible.

 

I phoned them on Friday offering £200 a month, though I could go to £250 at a push. They were not interested and stated that if I did not get the £4000 to them by noon Tuesday they would take legal action and that I could lose my house if the contents did not raise the £4,000 plus costs.

 

I asked a bit more time to find what I could do, but they refused and confirmed that my deadline was noon on Tuesday.

 

What are my rights on this? It is very, very worrying.

 

Pete

[pmhcfc]

I defaulted on an Amex credit card debt for £4,000 and got a call from AIC (Allied International Credit) requesting immediate payment. They refused to accept any payment terms, and suggest I get a friend or family member to pay it for me. That is not possible.

 

I phoned them on Friday offering £200 a month, though I could go to £250 at a push. They were not interested and stated that if I did not get the £4000 to them by noon Tuesday they would take legal action and that I could lose my house if the contents did not raise the £4,000 plus costs.

 

I asked a bit more time to find what I could do, but they refused and confirmed that my deadline was noon on Tuesday.

 

What are my rights on this? It is very, very worrying.

 

Pete

 

You should never speak to them on the phone- that's the first thing..Have everything in writing....First thing Monday morning, send them the following letter with a £1.00 postal order and send recorded...THis will buy you some time...Once they have produced the Original Agreement you're asking them to, then you can write to them with an offer.. THere's no court in the land that will rule that £200 per month is not an acceptable payment...You have to remember that the parasites that work at the DCA's, work on commision. They'll say anything to get payment and boost their wage packet...Send the letter and have a good read around this site for knowledge and advice whilst you wait for them to produce the original agreement...

 

Your Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

To Whom It May Concern

 

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company.

 

I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee.

 

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

[surprise]

Are they acting on behalf of Amex or have they bought the debt? They said exactly the same thing to me regarding an old Lloyds Debt. Turns out they had bought it and when I issued a CCA to them on 8th March I have heard nothing further from them.

[bytor]

Hi

I have AIC pestering me for two accounts, one's an old Lloyds account and the other is capitol one. They never responded to a CCA request on the capitol one account but keep phoning about Lloyds. I sent them another CCA request on this a couple of days ago, I also sent a CCA request on the Lloyds account back in Sept 06 to Lloyds solicitors, nothing back?

 

Good advice above, never speak to them on the phone, I just say "Sorry, I don't speak to you people, write to me instead". They usually hang up.

 

keep copies of all the letters you send them, if it's just a standard letter I'm sending I just get Proof of Posting from the post office, otherwise it's Recorded Delivery. I've had one Recorded Delivery not recieved by them, makes me wonder if they know what it's likely to be and refuse to sign for it, but that could be me being paranoid?

[pete16]

Thanks for the good advice everybody.

 

I will send the letter and next time they phone I will refuse to speak to them. I read that they are going against OFT guidelines by insisting on full payment immeditately and by suggesting that I borrow the money from elsewhere.

 

Should I point this out to them, or should I inform Amex of what they are doing? Would Amex want their name tainted in this way?

 

Thanks again, I feel a bit better now,

 

Cheers,

 

Pete

[surprise]

If Amex have sold the debt they won't want to know. This is how I found out Lloyds had sold my debt. Lloyds never bother to let me know. AIC made believe that they were collecting on their behalf.

[pmhcfc]

I've had one Recorded Delivery not recieved by them, makes me wonder if they know what it's likely to be and refuse to sign for it, but that could be me being paranoid?

 

THats why when you send a CCA request you should write on the evelope 'Payment Enclosed' - THey'll sign for it then.... Well, there is a payment enclosed isn't there? a £1.00 payment for the CCA

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bytor]

THats why when you send a CCA request you should write on the evelope 'Payment Enclosed' - THey'll sign for it then.... Well, there is a payment enclosed isn't there? a £1.00 payment for the CCA

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like it!!! I've tipped your scales....

[pete16]

Thanks everybody.

 

I already sent the letter without 'Payment Enclosed' but I will remember that for the next time, or if it comes back unsigned for. I think I will contact Amex with a registered letter in any case. It might not please them if they know that I can write them down on my websites.

 

I'm probably wroong oin saying that you don't know how important your advice was to me, since you have been through it yourselves, so you know how I feel. No need to say more except thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[pmhcfc]

Hi

I have AIC pestering me for two accounts, one's an old Lloyds account and the other is capitol one. They never responded to a CCA request on the capitol one account but keep phoning about Lloyds. I sent them another CCA request on this a couple of days ago, I also sent a CCA request on the Lloyds account back in Sept 06 to Lloyds solicitors, nothing back?

 

Good advice above, never speak to them on the phone, I just say "Sorry, I don't speak to you people, write to me instead". They usually hang up.

 

keep copies of all the letters you send them, if it's just a standard letter I'm sending I just get Proof of Posting from the post office, otherwise it's Recorded Delivery. I've had one Recorded Delivery not recieved by them, makes me wonder if they know what it's likely to be and refuse to sign for it, but that could be me being paranoid?

 

Thanks everybody.

 

I already sent the letter without 'Payment Enclosed' but I will remember that for the next time, or if it comes back unsigned for. I think I will contact Amex with a registered letter in any case. It might not please them if they know that I can write them down on my websites.

 

I'm probably wroong oin saying that you don't know how important your advice was to me, since you have been through it yourselves, so you know how I feel. No need to say more except thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

 

No problems Pete, keep us informed of what's going on.

[pete16]

I sent the letter requesting the CCA and have just had a call from AIC. They refused to deal with the matter in writing saying that they are a telephone based company, and were not put off when I said I was recording the call (which I wasn't).

 

I asked them to send the CCA before I was going to discuss the matter and they refused. they told me that they did not have to, and refused again to accepot a repayment offer. they insisted on all the money immediately.

 

They say they are now seeking an injunction against my house and the matter is going to county court.

 

Whaty do I do now? I was trying to avoid this. It's getting too much for me now. When I mentioned the CCA, he said I was taking nonsense.

 

Pete

[surprise]

They can't do anything without a copy of the agreement which they obviously haven't got. You shouldn't let them bully you. Don't acknowledge the debt. Sit back and let them hang themselves. They have 12 days from the date of receipt of the CCA when is this up? then they are in default and a further 30 days it is a criminal offence. Pretend you are NCO when they phone and hang up!

[pete16]

Thanks.

 

I hope you are right because I am going to go to the wire with this. I am willing to come to a monthly payment agreement of £200 but I have no funds to pay it all. He insited on no agreement, but I had to pay it all, preferably using a credit card. A cheque or internet bank transfer was no good, but a credit card was fine. He preferred a credit card to a debit card, because I asked the question.

 

I suppose I should see a solicitor now, but they will not phone me again because they said I was talking nonsense about the CCA, and that they have no obligation to send me anything. The guy said the next step is to take court action.

 

I was asked if I really wanted that, and I stated that I have no debt with them, and if I do to please send me the CCA. He said 'don't be silly' and then that they were taking action immediately to recover the money thorugh the equity on my house.

 

I said go ahead. And that is where it is now.

 

They would have received the request for the CCA on Tuesday 3rd.

 

I am taking the advice I have received here, but it is a bit scary.

 

Thanks anyway.

[surprise]

There are several threads on AIC in you go into search and put in AIC or Allied you will see what they are like. If they don't provide you with an agreement then they can't pursue the debt.

[Varangian3]

Pete

 

Part of the current problem is that you're still speaking to them on the phone - just hang up.

 

In terms of threats, only a court can place orders on your house. I recently had a Charging Order placed on my house by one of these companies and I was appalled at how easy it is for them to get the court to do this by lying that you haven't cooperated. The courts are too busy to examine the evidence properly. A Charging Order merely means that you can't sell the house or remortgage without them being informed - the loan becomes secured on the property, like any secured loan or a mortgage.

 

However, as the judge explained, its an entirely different for them to push for an Order of Sale, where they would have to convince the court that you had the means to pay the debt but had been totally unreasonable in paying (evidently not in your case, but put all this in writing). He told me that he'd only ever granted a few of these, and then only when people had sat in the court and just refused to pay anything to the debt. So, he said, "they've now basically gone as far as they can with the court system".

 

It also takes some time for Charging Orders as there are two stages, the second one transferred to your local court.

 

There is a lot of sound advice in the posts above. Keep the pressure on them, refuse to speak, and try not to worry too much about the threats. I just wish I'd known about CAG a long time ago as I could have handled things so much better!

 

Keep us posted and good luck

 

Varangian Guard

take no prisoners

[Mistermind]

Peter,

You've got to consider that your phone calls probably came from a roomful of telephone monkeys on minimum wage trying their luck by any means, saying anything browbeating and terrorising spiel that comes into their heads, with bonus proportional to what they can get.

 

AIC is a debt collector licenced by the OFT and can be delicenced. Whereas telephone monkeys know nothing and think they have nothing to lose, the one AIC person answerable to the law is the AIC Company Secretary, who will be a better-informed person whose mind is concentrated by the prospect of him receiving a personal summons.

 

The CS can be found online from Companies House by payment of £2, including his personal address required by law. Suggest you send a registered letter to same.

[pete16]

Thanks all.

 

I am glad I found this site. I have contacted Companies House as you suggested, Mistermind, though it is now a Bank Holiday. Once I get the address I require I will keep it until I get another phone call, then inform the arse that he will be receiving a personal summons.

 

I know I should not accept any more calls, but they have all been to my workplace so far. At the next I shall provide my home number where I can automatically record all calls.

 

I think that if a get these calls recorded, then it will provide more positive evidence. I have decided that this will go to court and that I will have proof on tape of their law breaking. I am not doing anything now, however, until the 12 days from their receipt of the CCA are up. That provides me with a stronger case. I will not remind them of it.

 

I am over my initial weakness thanks to all on this forum and will now pursue this as vigorously as I can, especially now that I know that no court will refuse my £200 monthly offer and allow them to force a sale of my house instead. I am now wishing them to phone me! I can't wait to get started on this.

 

I have never been a weak person, but was pretty close to letting this get too much for me. I now realize that we are not always as strong as we think we are.

 

Thanks to everybody here, I am now ready for them and totally up for it!

 

Cheers,

 

Pete

[pete16]

Thanks all.

 

I am glad I found this site. I have contacted Companies House as you suggested, Mistermind, though it is now a Bank Holiday. Once I get the address I require I will keep it until I get another phone call, then inform the arse that he will be receiving a personal summons.

 

I know I should not accept any more calls, but they have all been to my workplace so far. If I can find some way to give them my home number, I could record them.

 

I think that if I can get these calls recorded, then it will provide more positive evidence. I have decided that this will go to court and that I will have proof on tape of their law breaking. I am not doing anything now, however, until the 12 days from their receipt of the CCA are up. That provides me with a stronger case. I will not remind them of it.

 

I am over my initial weakness thanks to all on this forum and will now pursue this as vigorously as I can, especially now that I know that no court will refuse my £200 monthly offer and allow them to force a sale of my house instead. I am now wishing them to phone me! I can't wait to get started on this.

 

I have never been a weak person, but was pretty close to letting this get too much for me. I now realize that we are not always as strong as we think we are.

 

Thanks to everybody here, I am now ready for them and totally up for it!

 

Cheers,

 

Pete

[Mistermind]

Knowledge is power.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/search.php?searchid=736790

If you do an advanced search on Allied International Credit you will find a large database on other members' experience.

 

Companies House is available 24x7, payment by cr dr cards. Looks like £5 subs per month now, rather than £2 per search. Doubt if you need to commit to more than 1 month. The docs you want online are Company Appointments, and possibly Personal Appointments.

 

Then write to AIC Company Secretary at his home address. It will concentrate his mind wonderfully to open your letter over his cornflakes. He will understand that two can play at this game. Whereas his telephone moneys can threaten to visit your home, you can also visit his home to read him the law. Best of luck.

 

Companies House Direct Price List

Fees from 1st Feb 2005PricesSign On

FreeMonthly subscription (per account per month)5.00 Screen Charges Company indexes

No chargeBasic company detailsNo chargeHistory of company transactionsNo chargeRegister of disqualified directorsNo chargeInsolvency detailsNo chargeCompany appointments1.00Personal appointments1.00

Company Details

 

The WebCHeck service is available from Monday to Saturday 7.00am to 12 Midnight UK Time

Name & Registered Office:

ALLIED INTERNATIONAL CREDIT (UK) LIMITED

THE CLOCK TOWER

OFFICE NO 5 CHINEHAM

BASINGSTOKE

HAMPSHIRE RG24 8BQ

Company No. 00984439

 

 

Status: Active

Date of Incorporation: 13/07/1970

 

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

 

Company Type: Private Limited Company

Nature of Business (SIC(03)):

7487 - Other business activities

 

Accounting Reference Date: 31/12

Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2005 (GROUP)

Next Accounts Due: 31/10/2007

Last Return Made Up To: 24/12/2006

Next Return Due: 21/01/2008

 

Last Members List: 24/12/2006

 

Previous Names:

Date of change

Previous Name

17/02/1993

ALLIED COLLECTION AGENCIES (U.K) LIMITED

Branch Details

There are no branches associated with this company.

Oversea Company Info

There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.

System Requirements

 

Return to search page

[pete16]

Company House has no record of this company.

 

They have also started again. They phoned my house 4 times when I was out yesterday and tried to get my son to give them my mobile number. They phoned my work 5 times this morning, and I finally had to speak to them because they just continually phoned after I put the phone down. The guy I spoke (a Mr Brown?) denied that I had requested only written communication and has said they are now taking legal action to sequester the debt against my house.

 

It has been 8 days now since they received my CCA request, and they are denying they have to provide it.

 

Peter

[Mistermind]

My previous cut-and-paste was FROM the companieshouse website, company registration number large as life.

 

I give up. Not coming back to this thread.

[TideTurner]

Guys,

 

If any part of this matter is in dispute, quote the following to them: -

 

Communications Act 2003 section 127

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he-

(a) sends by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character; or

(b) causes any such message or matter to be so sent.

(2) A person is guilty of an offence if, for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another, he-

(a) sends by means of a public electronic communications network, a message that he knows to be false,

(b) causes such a message to be sent; or

© persistently makes use of a public electronic communications network.

(3) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable, on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or to both.

(4) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to anything done in the course of providing a programme service (within the meaning of the Broadcasting Act 1990 (c. 42)).

 

Then do all communication via letters. I don't think you have addressed the main points here though, forget the harassment, how legitimate is their claim?

 

Tide

[pete16]

Their claim is likely legitimate, though in theory anybody could could phone demanding money. I requested a copy of the CCA, which is within my rights, and they have ignored me.

 

They demand payment in full, which is the main problem since I cannot pay £4000. I have offered £200 monthly but they refused to consider anything but payment in full immeditalely. There is therefore no further communication necessary.

 

Until the matter goes to court and the judge accepts my offer, there is nothing more to be discussed, other than their failure to meet their legal oblogations and sedn me the CCA, and also to trade within the guideleines of the OFT.

 

Regarding Misterminds reply, this is the response I got from Company House:

 

Dear Peter,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

Allied International Credit

 

I have checked the register for the above company, but cannot find any trace of a registered company with this name.

 

Companies House only registers limited companies. Unfortunately, there is no requirement for sole trades/partnerships to register details anywhere.

 

Yours faithfully,

Alyson Wilson

Companies House Contact Centre

[email protected]

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Peter Nisbet" [[email protected]]

Sent: 06 April 2007

Subject: Information

 

 

Hello

 

 

 

I am trying to find out who is repsonsible in law for a debt collection company

 

called Allied International Credit.

 

 

 

They frequently break the law regarding theit abusive and bullying telephone

 

tactics and I need to know who the directors and company secretray are.

 

 

 

What is the best way for me to do this. I am prepared to pay your fees,

 

but your website does not make it clear that if I pay the £5 requested that

 

I will have access to the information I require.

 

 

 

Can you please provide me with some guidance.

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

 

Peter Nisbet

[slybeth4]

Hello Pete

 

Dont get bullied by AIC. I have the same issue with them. Basically, I sent of for SARS on my statements and at the same time phoned AIC and told them I would stop immediate payments to them as the account was now considered to be in dispute. I confirmed this in writing.

 

This is a legal stance that you can take. They did accept my point and since last 2 months they have not phoned or written to me at all.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards

[TideTurner]

Slybeth,

 

It may be an idea to do a SAR with the original creditor. The DCA's shouldn't even be in the picture, but should be informed that the a/c is in dispute etc. but you will be dealing with the original creditor directly, and do not expect to hear from them further.

 

Tide