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Kings Hill - advice please!


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Long story this :-

 

My wife died in Nov 2003, and after her death, I found a box with hidden unopened post in it - even to the point where she had forged my signature on a lease agreement as guarantor on a beauty therapy machine. There were CCJ's relating to this and also a second charge on my house! She was obviously filtering the post. She had even stopped paying the life assurance, and as a consequence of not paying around £300 of payments, the mortgage of £80000 was not paid off after her death! Anyway, since then I have been paying most of these debts off, and the second charge was removed by taking out a secured loan.

 

A few months ago, I received a court summons from Kings Hill No.1 for £11,000 which appears to be 3 separate debts that they have purchased. The original debts must be from circa 1999/2000. I wrote to King Hill, and cc'd their solicitors explaining the above situation and requesting that we come to a payment arrangement, and that they please don't proceed with the CCJ, as I had been making exertive efforts to clear the debt left to me by my wife.

 

I received a response from their solicitor's acknowledging my letter, and to say they were awaiting their client's instructions. I have heard nothing from Kings Hill, and nothing further from the solicitor's other than the above letter.

 

Subsequently, as I was awaiting a response from them, a judgement was entered against me, and since then, an interim charging order has been placed, with a hearing to have a final? charging order placed on my house scheduled for this Tuesday (3rd April).

 

Anyway, I have today sent them a letter as follows :

 

Dear Sir,

 

With relation to Claim No. xxxxxx, I wish to dispute the judgment entered wrongly in default against myself.

My reasons for this, are as follows :

1) I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company.

 

a) You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreements you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreements under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee.

 

b) You must provide me with a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

c) You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that the legal action you are currently undergoing will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

 

 

2) According to the Inland revenue website, the following is noted :-

IHTM28384 - Law relating to debts: statute-barred debts

If a lender allows time to pass without receiving any payment an action for recovery may become barred.

 

Under the Limitations Act 1980 the time limits are

 

in simple contracts, 6 years

in contracts under seal, 12 years.

If the debtor acknowledges the debt in writing or makes a part payment within the original limitation period, then the time limits start to run again from the date of acknowledgement or the date of payment.

 

Even though the lender may be barred from pursuing recovery, a debtor may decide to pay the debt after the expiry of the time limits. Because of this you should allow a debt which is otherwise statute-barred if the personal representatives pay the debt and you receive evidence that the payment has been made.

 

The above instructions do not apply to debts in Scotland. Under Scottish law, if a lender allows time to pass without receiving any payment an action for recovery may become barred under the Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973. (For details of this Act see Gloag and Henderson 10th edition at Chapter 15.). These debts are completely extinguished and cannot be enforced. Once the prescriptive period expires the debt cannot be allowed as a deduction.

 

You will note that the sums you claim I owe, are indeed Statute Barred. Therefore you have no claim against myself.

 

I shall await your response, and make note to xxxx County Court that the final charging order application be dismissed.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

What is the consequence of the judgment being entered by default against me? Do I now have no recourse?

 

These debts are probably from circa 2000, and I've never had copies of signed credit agreements. Do I ring the court and explain the situation?

 

Thanks, and thanks to Smashedbooboo for pointing me to this site!

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I am really sorry to read about your wife.

 

I think you need to write to the court and explain the situation enclosing a copy of the letter from Hodsons, stating that they were waiting on advice from their client.

 

I would also pay them £3 (£1 per account) and ask for copies of all the agreements, find out what is in your name and see if you signature was forged on any of these agreements. You could always send them another £10 for a Subject Access Request under the data protection act.

 

If your signature are forged, as cold and harsh as it sounds in the circumstances, you should report it to the Police, to get a crime reference number whice you can then give to the court.

 

When your wife died, did your bank change your mortgage into your sole name ? What names appear on the Deeds ?

 

I would also highly recommend going to see a solicitor, you really need some expert advice.

 

If all else fails. I would write to every national newpaper going telling your sorry and stating how badly you have been treated since your wife died. Cabot will hate the bad publicity, but so will the original creditors, it may force them to take action themselves.

Remember if you find anything I say helpful, please click the scales

 

 

tbern123 vs Cabot

  1. Cabot again !!! Urgent Help Needed
  2. Litigation - tbern123 V Cabot Financial (Uk) Limited
  3. No more calls from Cabot... lol

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I am fairly sure that the debts were mine, however they were from about 1999/2000 so I think they may be statute barred.

 

Bit naughty of them to send a letter saying they were awaiting their clients instructions and then enter CCJ by default against me.

 

Mortgage is in my sole name, as are the deeds. I'm remortgaging to get my new wife on the mortgage and deeds (I remarried last Oct), and to ensure I have some collateral in case this turns bad!

 

Cheers for the advice, I'll send the letters above, and postal orders to Kings Hill. I have also cc'ed the letter to the County Court and to Hodsons.

 

Hopefully I'll get some mileage out of it... If I can even get the amount reduced and the second charge removed, I'd consider it a success... Especially in light of the fact that it's over 6 years old, and they will have bought the debts for next to nothing..

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By the way, I mentioned it to the police when I found out my signature was forged on the lease agreement, but they informed me there was nothing that I could do, and to take it up with the FSA. I did, but they said it wasn't something they could help with either!

 

Anyway, that one is now paid, and behind me...

 

I could get the cash together to pay this Kings Hill one probably, but just feel like they are trying it on with me... So I decided to put up a fight first!

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Does anyone have an email address for Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd?

 

And one for Hodson's solicitors?

 

Think I'll look for one for the County Court too...

 

I'd like to be doubly sure they get my communication!!!

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Does anyone have an email address for Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd?

 

And one for Hodson's solicitors?

 

Think I'll look for one for the County Court too...

 

I'd like to be doubly sure they get my communication!!!

 

Kings Hill number 1 do not exist as a company anymore per say-- Something very dodgy happened and they changed their name to Cabot Uk Ltd on Jan 15th 2007. Kings Hill number One are a dormant company and should not be trading.

Just hate every DCA out there

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I am! I have amended my letter to the courts and Kings Hill - although if they don't exist where do I send it to now?

 

If they don't exist now, then how do Kings Hill have a court date with me on Tuesday?!?!?!

 

Who should I send the letter to? It now reads as follows!! Any modifications I should make?

 

 

 

FAO: Kings Hill (No.1), CC: Hodson’s Solicitors, CC: Birkenhead County Court

URGENT – relating to hearing on Tuesday 3rd April at 12:00pm

Dear Sir,

First and foremost, as Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd, no longer exists as a company, I’m a little unsure how they are taking court action against me? They changed name on January 15th 2007, and so surely the paperwork needs to be amended accordingly?

With relation to Claim No. xxxxxxx, I wish to dispute the judgment entered wrongly in default against myself.

My reasons for this, are as follows :

1) I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company.

a) You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreements you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreements under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose 3 x £1 postal orders in payment of the statutory fees. Take note that these payments are NOT intended as acknowledgement of any debt, nor are they to be used as payment in respect of any alleged debt. It is SOLELY a statutory fee in respect of this request.

b) You must provide me with a signed true copy of the deeds of assignment of the above referenced agreements that you allege exist.

c) You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not.

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Take note at this stage, that the legal action you are currently undergoing will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

2) According to the Inland revenue website, the following is noted :-

IHTM28384 - Law relating to debts: statute-barred debts

If a lender allows time to pass without receiving any payment an action for recovery may become barred.

Under the Limitations Act 1980 the time limits are

in simple contracts, 6 years

in contracts under seal, 12 years.

If the debtor acknowledges the debt in writing or makes a part payment within the original limitation period, then the time limits start to run again from the date of acknowledgement or the date of payment.

Even though the lender may be barred from pursuing recovery, a debtor may decide to pay the debt after the expiry of the time limits. Because of this you should allow a debt which is otherwise statute-barred if the personal representatives pay the debt and you receive evidence that the payment has been made.

The above instructions do not apply to debts in Scotland. Under Scottish law, if a lender allows time to pass without receiving any payment an action for recovery may become barred under the Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973. (For details of this Act see Gloag and Henderson 10th edition at Chapter 15.). These debts are completely extinguished and cannot be enforced. Once the prescriptive period expires the debt cannot be allowed as a deduction.

You will note that the sums you claim I owe, are indeed Statute Barred. Therefore you have no claim against myself.

As a consequence, I am also forwarding this letter to the Office Of Fair Trading, and Trading Standards, as pursuing a debt that is statute barred constitutes harassment.

I shall await your response, and make note to Birkenhead County Court that the final charging order application be dismissed, and that the CCJ should be set aside.

Yours faithfully,

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Does anyone have an email address for Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd?

 

And one for Hodson's solicitors?

 

Think I'll look for one for the County Court too...

 

I'd like to be doubly sure they get my communication!!!

 

The customer email address is:

 

[email protected]

 

or you can email their CEO directly

 

[email protected]

 

good luck

Remember if you find anything I say helpful, please click the scales

 

 

tbern123 vs Cabot

  1. Cabot again !!! Urgent Help Needed
  2. Litigation - tbern123 V Cabot Financial (Uk) Limited
  3. No more calls from Cabot... lol

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If you get a spare few minutes, read this

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/73598-dealing-cabot-101-a.html

 

Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd (new name for Kings Hill)

10 Kings Hill Avenue

Kings Hill

West Malling

Kent

ME19 4LT

  • Haha 1

Remember if you find anything I say helpful, please click the scales

 

 

tbern123 vs Cabot

  1. Cabot again !!! Urgent Help Needed
  2. Litigation - tbern123 V Cabot Financial (Uk) Limited
  3. No more calls from Cabot... lol

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So sorry to hear of your troubles - this must be the most diffucult time for you without these clowns adding to your problems!!

 

You need to write to court by recorded delivery - firstly outling what you have told us here and then asking for this case to be tranferred to your local court (will save you time travelling and you can then appear in person to strengthen your case) you need to try show court you have asked for certain information etc.. and do need more time to resolves these issues down to this company being unwilling to provide you with any documentary evidence that they have to back their claims up etc... - Judges are human and will allow you time to try collect this paperwork etc.. = and if Hodsons/Cabots fail to comply Judge will strike them out etc.. - there will be no case to answer if that is the result.

 

I have a couple of questions to ask you.

 

How long ago did you request the CCA information?? after 42 days these people do break the law if they don't comply.

 

Did you do the SAR (subject Access Request) to see how the accounts were running - chances are that even though these accounts were your wifes - there maybe "unlawful charges" that can write off a great deal of these debts. This might be an angle worth exploring too.

 

Advice previously given was good advice by Tbern et al....

 

As regards to Hodsons (I take it Dean Spencer their "legal exec" has signed the court claim??) - they have acted in particulary bad taste this time!! You can compalin to ILEX about him and get your complaint looked at by these people - "vexacious litigant" springs to mind with this man again!! He seems to sit in his office filing claims he can't back up and produce paperwork for!! there is a complaint form here ILEX - Professional Issues - A Guide To The Ilex Complaints Handling Procedures

 

Tell ILEX everything that has happened and they will look into this and deal with this company - they shouldn't be filing such claims without having the correct paperwork and having followed certain "pre court protocols" etc..

 

There are plenty of places to go to with complaints regarding solicitors and Barristers who aren't doing their jobs correctly and are misleading people. Seems some solicitors and Barristers use their positions to intimidate and abuse the legal system by not giving the correct "whole"

situation to people. But there are channels to raise complaints about such behaviour - these people aren't untouchable and they ought to abide by their professional standards.

 

Another thing you can do is write to all of the Credit Reference Agencies - stating what has happened and ask them to remove these items from your credit files (known as dis-association with the debts involved??)

 

Keep posting and keep your thread updated as there is lots you can do to turn things around with this - it is going to be a long haul - but there is plenty of help here to guide you.

 

If there is anything you need to say that you'd rather keep off the board - you can always PM people and get the help you need.

 

Good luck - I do wish you well with this.

My CCA skeleton argument to use in court -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/115280-useful-information.html

 

Useful Letters (CCA request is letter N)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

CAG A-Z list of useful places in CAG -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/69359-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

Introduction to Consumer Litigation -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

CABOT THREADS -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/131321-cabot-threads.html

 

ALWAYS SEEK A PROFESSIONAL OPINION FROM QUALIFIED ADVISORS - any advice offered is from my own experience and knowledge - I am NOT qualified.

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Hi, thanks for the advice!

 

The debts were mine, not the (late)wife's, however I think they may be statute barred. They are also for 3 credit cards, so if they are not within the last 6 years, then there will be CC fee's that I presume I could reclaim. I'm pretty sure that the last payments on those cards were over 6 years ago though!

 

The full post with more explanation is on MSE :

 

Need fast advice please!! - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

 

Save me retyping it all!!

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I am only just sending the letter requesting CCA information. I'm a bit late, cos it's at the charging order stage of proceedings, due to them being a bit (lot!) underhand!

 

I haven't done a SAR request yet... This site is a lot to take in within one day! I'll play it a card at a time I think and see how it progresses!

 

And yes, it was Dean Spencer, sounds like a positively delightful chappie!

 

Thanks!

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I am! I have amended my letter to the courts and Kings Hill - although if they don't exist where do I send it to now?

 

If they don't exist now, then how do Kings Hill have a court date with me on Tuesday?!?!?!

 

Hang on,,members of the CFC..... How can Kings Hill be in court with this chap next week - they are dormant company...we all know this,, surely something can be done here!!!

Just hate every DCA out there

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It all depends on the dates...

 

Remember Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd is the company formally called Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd.

 

The company called Kings Hill is not the one we have been dealing with previously.

 

Is there anyway you could scan the court papers so that we can take a look ?

Remember if you find anything I say helpful, please click the scales

 

 

tbern123 vs Cabot

  1. Cabot again !!! Urgent Help Needed
  2. Litigation - tbern123 V Cabot Financial (Uk) Limited
  3. No more calls from Cabot... lol

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I don't have a scanner to hand, but the court papers (it has been transferred to my local court) clearly say Me v Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd, and they are represented by Hodsons. The original court summons was Nov 2006. Then they had an interim charging order placed against me, and now this is for a final charging order. ALL court documents say Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd...

 

The plot thickens!

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I think there is some confusion baout Kings Hill (No 1) being a dormant company. If this is coming from the Companies House website, this can be very misleading. When a company changes its name the old name still appears on the website as dormant, but the company's correct status is now shown against its new name. So to see whether Kings Hill No 1 is still trading you have to look at the new name of Cabot Financial (UK).

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Yes, but that was for the CCJ.

 

They then went to court on 28th Feb 2007, and the paper states :

 

In The Birkenhead County Court

 

BETWEEN

 

Kings Hill (No.1) Limited

 

Judgment Creditor

 

and

 

me :-)

 

Judgment Debtor

 

So how were they represented in court if they don't exist?

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