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I purchased a vehicle, 3 years ago, on a 7 year unregulated hire purchase agreement. I want to send the vehicle back but I have found out that I don't actually have any consumer rights. This of course was not explained to me at the time of purchase.

During a recent MOT the mechanic pointed out that the chassis number on the log book is different to the one on the vehicle. On double checking the agreement there is another chassis number making three different numbers!

I have spoken to Consumer Direct (oft helpline) who think that if there are errors in the chassis numbers I could possibly return the vehicle, without anything further to pay & reclaim the money I have paid over the last three years!!

Someone else has said this could come under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

Does anyone know if this is the case or know anything about this??

 

Thank you

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I purchased a vehicle, 3 years ago, on a 7 year unregulated hire purchase agreement. I want to send the vehicle back but I have found out that I don't actually have any consumer rights. This of course was not explained to me at the time of purchase.

During a recent MOT the mechanic pointed out that the chassis number on the log book is different to the one on the vehicle. On double checking the agreement there is another chassis number making three different numbers!

I have spoken to Consumer Direct (oft helpline) who think that if there are errors in the chassis numbers I could possibly return the vehicle, without anything further to pay & reclaim the money I have paid over the last three years!!

Someone else has said this could come under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

Does anyone know if this is the case or know anything about this??

 

Thank you

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The dealer went into liquidation 8 weeks after I purchased the vehicle, so I can't go back to them for advice. But my feeling is I've been misled as there was an exact same vehicle which had gone off road with a broken chassis.

The vehicle I thought I was buying had an awning but I got a vehicle without an awning. Now all this with the chassis number I do feel very worried & don't know where to get the right advice.

Up until Friday Black Horse had told me that if I paid 50% I could return the vehicle with nothing more to pay & no penalties. That is what I'd been doing with just £5,000 to go to reach half way. I've paid for 3 years almost £20,000. Balance was £39,750 (with £10,550 interest) but settlement figure is still £26,000 with penalties on.

Found out yesterday this is only on a REGULATED agreement.

On an UNregulated agreement I can be charged up to 5 months interest as a penalty + all costs of returning the vehicle.

 

Consumer Direct have put me in for a call from Trading Standards, as you can no longer call them direct anymore at the local council.

I'll wait to see what they say. I'll keep you posted. I'm just so worried about the heavy mob from BH turning up to take the vehicle!

 

Thanks

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as the vehicle was purchased at 25k+ then it had to be an unregulated agreement. You will have to give more infor on the exact terms of the agreement. If the VIN number on the agreement is different from the log book and also different from the one on the vehicle then you have major problems. How have you managed to tax the vehicle each year? I would suggest that to start the ball rolling you need to contact dvla and explain what is happening, without going into the finance side. You need to establish the VIN number and history the vehicle you have. If it is a ringer then I would wince but BH might have problems as they have funded a vehicle that officially does not exist so possible recourse against them. Hope this helps a wee bit.

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I purchased a vehicle, 3 years ago, on a 7 year unregulated hire purchase agreement. I want to send the vehicle back but I have found out that I don't actually have any consumer rights. This of course was not explained to me at the time of purchase.

During a recent MOT the mechanic pointed out that the chassis number on the log book is different to the one on the vehicle. On double checking the agreement there is another chassis number making three different numbers!

I have spoken to Consumer Direct (oft helpline) who think that if there are errors in the chassis numbers I could possibly return the vehicle, without anything further to pay & reclaim the money I have paid over the last three years!!

Someone else has said this could come under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

Does anyone know if this is the case or know anything about this??

 

Thank you

 

Hello Dotty,

 

I think you car seems a bit suspect to say the least, and IMO you have a good case.

 

Have a look at this info to see if you can get the info you need

The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002

 

Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994

If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW

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Based on what you state & if the vehicle was extensivley repaired & you weren't told or is a ringer then the garage & by default the lender, if dealer introduced, are guilty of breaching the SOGA & you are entitled, even now, to return the vehicle whilst demanding a full refund af ALL monies paid

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If it's a Hire Purchase agreement the SoGA won't apply.

 

See the thread that Delboytrotter started recently on which I have posted more details and links about HP agreements.

 

You will instead be looking at the Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act against the HP company. This Act is similar to SoGA in that it states that all goods sold must be of satisfactory quality, fit for all normal purposes and as described. You could argue that as you have been sold a vehicle which has these irregularities, that it does not match its description. The HP company could say that they or their agents (the garage) have made no description to state that the numbers will match up (if it's on the agreement this will cause them problems!) and ultimately a judge would have to decide on this. However if your argument is successful you can potentially repudiate the contract, which sounds like what Consumer Direct have mentioned to you.

 

It won't matter a jot that the dealer has gone into liquidation as your rights are against the HP company and not the dealer anyway, since you effectively didn't have a contract with the dealer.

 

It might be best to speak to Trading Standards local to you as they may wish to have a look at your paperwork, in cases like this it is always easier to advise fully when you have all the paperwork in front of you.

Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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This is a link to Delboy's thread which explains more about the law relating to Hire Purchase agreements (see #8 and #9):

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/78276-quick-survey-what-you.html

 

saves me typing it out again :)

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Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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Notty

 

Neutral Citation Number: [2006] EWCA Civ 268

Case No: A3/2004/2720

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

COURT OF APPEAL (CIVIL DIVISION)

ON APPEAL FROM THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE

QUEEN'S BENCH DIVISION (COMMERCIAL COURT)

Mrs Justice Gloster

2003 Folio 687

Royal Courts of Justice

Strand, London, WC2A 2LL

22nd March 2006

Under section 75 the existence of the transaction, wherever it was entered into, is sufficient to provide the basis for connected lender liability if it was financed by a DCS agreement. The creditor's right to make a claim against the supplier is one created by statute which depends on nothing more than his having been compelled to satisfy the debtor's claim, but before the debtor can succeed against the creditor he must establish (in an English court, if necessary) that he had a claim against the supplier

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This would be irrelevant JonCris, it would apply to a standard credit agreement but not a HP agreement as the "supplier" and "debtor" would be the same party (i.e. the finance company). Black Horse are the supplier in this case.

 

Section 75 does not apply to HP agreements, Notty would have to use the Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act as per my previous posts/link to posts.

Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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Hi JonCris & Rosiecotton

Thank you so much for your replies, you have been very helpful & have given me hope that I will be able to get somewhere with this.

 

I said I was waiting for trading standards to get in touch. You can no longer contact them direct at the the council you have to go through to Consumer Direct. If they think Trading Standards could help they email them with your details. The arrangement between them is that they should contact me within 3 days.

My call was due on Tuesday, nothing happened.

I called Consumer Direct told them I'd waited in for the call.

They emailed them again, told me they'd 'hopefully' call Wednesday - Nothing!

Yesterday - nothing - Easter hols - no chance

 

When I called Consumer Direct I asked if they'd leave a message & number for me to call back - but they told me they don't always leave a message - I can't sit next to the phone for a week, waiting!!!!

 

I called the local rep from Black Horse & the collections centre & explained that there is a problem & I'm waiting to speak to Trading Standards.

If I knew how to get the ball rolling I'd just go ahead - but at the same time I don't want to risk doing anything wrong.

 

Still waiting....... I'm aging rapidly!!

 

I've put everything together & when you go through the catalogue of problems & errors & funny goings on - I'm convinced I was sold a completely different vehicle to the one I saw first & wanted to buy.

 

Anyway I'll keep you posted -- thanks again!

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Hi there

Eventually got a call from Trading Standards - an absolute waste of time. I don't like to be rude but he didn't have a clue.

 

So decided to call Black Horse as the local rep had left a very sharp message on my answerphone.

To cut it short I highlighted some of the difficulties & said I had 3 chassis numbers on 3 different documents. To which he tried to make out they were simply typing errors, they're busy, hand writing blar, blar. He was also saying that the numbers were very similar.

So he put the chassis number we both have (that's in the log book) into Experian. Apparently they hold all vehicle details, I didn't know this, even DVLA couldn't check the chassis number.

So of course the log book chassis number came up registered to my registration - OK, that's good.

He was so sure it was typing errors he put in the other 2 chassis numbers & they are both registered to my registration ALSO. He said 'this is very odd' & speedily refered it back to Black Horse Quality Assurance.

 

I have 3 chassis numbers registered to my one vehicle!!!???***

 

If anyone has ANY idea what this could be about I would be really grateful.

 

 

dotty

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Hi there

Eventually got a call from Trading Standards - an absolute waste of time. I don't like to be rude but he didn't have a clue.

 

So decided to call Black Horse as the local rep had left a very sharp message on my answerphone.

To cut it short I highlighted some of the difficulties & said I had 3 chassis numbers on 3 different documents. To which he tried to make out they were simply typing errors, they're busy, hand writing blar, blar. He was also saying that the numbers were very similar.

So he put the chassis number we both have (that's in the log book) into Experian. Apparently they hold all vehicle details, I didn't know this, even DVLA couldn't check the chassis number.

So of course the log book chassis number came up registered to my registration - OK, that's good.

He was so sure it was typing errors he put in the other 2 chassis numbers & they are both registered to my registration ALSO. He said 'this is very odd' & speedily refered it back to Black Horse Quality Assurance.

 

I have 3 chassis numbers registered to my one vehicle!!!???***

 

If anyone has ANY idea what this could be about I would be really grateful.

 

 

dotty

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Hi there

Eventually got a call from Trading Standards - an absolute waste of time. I don't like to be rude but he didn't have a clue.

 

So decided to call Black Horse as the local rep had left a very sharp message on my answerphone.

To cut it short I highlighted some of the difficulties & said I had 3 chassis numbers on 3 different documents. To which he tried to make out they were simply typing errors, they're busy, hand writing blar, blar. He was also saying that the numbers were very similar.

So he put the chassis number we both have (that's in the log book) into Experian. Apparently they hold all vehicle details, I didn't know this, even DVLA couldn't check the chassis number.

So of course the log book chassis number came up registered to my registration - OK, that's good.

He was so sure it was typing errors he put in the other 2 chassis numbers & they are both registered to my registration ALSO. He said 'this is very odd' & speedily refered it back to Black Horse Quality Assurance.

 

I have 3 chassis numbers registered to my one vehicle!!!???***

 

If anyone has ANY idea what this could be about I would be really grateful.

 

 

dotty

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The local TS should at least have been able to advise you on the legislation, should also have asked to see your paperwork in my opinion as it's always easier to advise on matters like this with the paperwork in front of you. What did they actually say?

 

The Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act will cover all purchases made on HP.

 

I've no idea about the chassis numbers though - what effect it has upon the car itself - and this isn't something TS would know about either to be fair.

Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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Hi

Trading Standards said 'Why would you get any money back?'

If you have a fiat panda that's red & one that's white you still have the same product. Another version of above but with garden furniture.

Said thay couldn't help anyway because it was over £5,000. DIdn't offer to see paperwork. Told me to see a solicitor.

 

He didn't know about the 3 chassis number being actually registered to my vehicle plate until after. Because I didn't get anywhere with Trading Standards I just called Black Horse & they confirmed this information following my call to TS.

 

I said about The Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act but he didn't know about it indepth & didn't offer.

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If the claim is for over £5k TS generally won't advise as it's not the small claims track and therefore they would normally ask you to get a solicitor to assist you as costs can be claimed in the court. This is not unusual.

 

You would need to prove that the car is not as described and does not comply with the Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act - the judge may agree with what TS have advised and say that you still have the car you would have expected and the chassis number is not important. They may see it as a fundamental breach and you are entitled to repudiate. Without knowing the significance of the chassis number (I'm not an expert in cars and I imagine TS would not have been either, hence their possible response) I can't really say how successful you are likely to be.

 

He could have advised more on the legislation but may have assumed that you already knew about it, I would be surprised indeed if a consumer adviser at TS did not know about this Act.

 

Not sticking up for them particularly, just can understand why you had the advice you did.

 

I'd do a bit more research into the importance of chassis numbers, I can't help you on this part. The TS officer seemed to feel that it was not of much relevance, but again he wouldn't know that for sure.

Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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dotty despite what is being said your problems will start when & if you try to sell it. Should it become known that it has more then one chassis number then it will be assumed, quite understandbly, that it's a ringer or at the very least a cut & shut

 

As for TS I really do despair. Of course they understand the motor trade. They prosecute dodgy dealers for selling cut & shuts & ringers all the time.

 

They are very good at their job if it involves a photo opportunity or being on telly

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Thank you for your replies - it's great to get other views on this. I too despair with TS they're the only contact for people. Supposed to contact you within 3 days but with anything local authority it's just a joke. Being paid good money but delivering a very substandard service to the public - a typical fusty-crusty! I waited 12 days to speak with TS.

 

All of the problems aside with the vehicle & the dealer I purchased from, I basically have a vehicle that has cost me £40,000 - that cannot be sold.

 

When the chap from Black Horse tried to make out it was simply typing errors I thought that must be the end of any argument but when it came up that all 3 chassis numbers were registered to my one reg plate - he was shocked.

He was expecting nothing at all to come up when he put the other 2 numbers in.

 

I've known all along there has been something funny going on & it's come round in a big circle. It's like a jigsaw puzzle. The dealer knew they were going bust & that explains why they would never do any repairs - parts were always 'on order' but never arrived!

 

I'm going to try & speak to aomeone in the industry tomorrow & try to find out what it actually means - why these numbers are registered to 1 reg plate -what had they been doing exactly??

 

I'll keep you posted.

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Hi Rosiecotton

It's not that TS man didn't see any relevance in the numbers it's that he didn't know about it at the time we spoke. He only knew I had different numbers but not that they were all registered to my vehicle.

The number info was confirmed following the call to TS.

Sorry for any confusion there

 

Unfortunately, it's true, his get up & go had already gone - but having said that it was nearing 3pm & TS do flexi-time!

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I wish TS were on good money, maybe then I wouldn't be going bankrupt next month.

 

I do agree though that 12 days is very unusual, I guess it depends where in the country you are and how the service is resourced but generally yes they should be calling all Consumer Direct referrals within a set time. Those services which are inadequately resourced (numerous!) don't tend to take many callbacks for this reason. Consumer Direct should be managing the referrals for these services.

 

(I see you are in Notts, often advisers in that area are very under pressure and often have 40+ cases on the go at any one time, from what I understand from colleagues who have worked there. This is not an excuse at all, but perhaps an explanation)

 

And no, TS are NOT experts on the motor trade, if they do under cover projects or prosecutions they bring in independent experts and they can simply not do this for every civil case!

 

Definitely do a bit more research though into this and what it means, and then you will have more idea of how strong your case will be.

Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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Hi It's a motorhome. What do you think it means having 3 chassis numbers registered to my 1 registration plate? I'm puzzled but don't know where to find anything else out.

 

Thank you

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