davidscullion vs RBOS (small claim) ** WON**

[davidscullion]

I recently had 2 cheque bouncing charges applied to my account after i was only £3.53 under the cheque value. These totaled £76.00.

 

The branch agreed to refund one of them but on the condition i sign a letter saying i would not be refunded anymore bank charges unless the were bank errors.

 

I'm not sure of the legalities of the situation, had i signed and been refunded the charge would i still be able to write them a letter and try claim the other one back?

 

I was just going to send them this letter:

The Royal Bank of Scotland

39 St Andrews Square

Edinburgh

EH2 2YB

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Penalty & unfair charges – request for refund for [xx]

 

The first charge in question came about because of a cheque which bounced due to me being £3.53 under the required amount. The reason I was under was because of my royalties service charge which I had forgotten about. The second charge was incurred when the cheque was represented some 5 days later. I have detailed the charges below. I had been away on holiday during that week and as such had no idea that I did not have enough money to cover the cheque.

 

My total requested refund for unfair charges is £76.00.

 

My branch has agreed to refund one of the charges on the condition that I sign a letter preventing me from being refunded any other charges unless they are bank errors. I was not happy with this resolution as I feel both charges are unfair and as such should be refunded to me.

 

0n 5 April 2006 the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) announced that default charges which are set at more than £12 will be presumed to be unfair and unenforceable in terms of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). Charges above this sum will be subject to legal action by the OFT (press release 68/06 – online here:

The Office of Fair Trading: Current credit card default charges unfair).

 

The OFT stated that a charge is not fair simply because it is below this sum, and I believe that a reasonable charge would be 50 pence for the reasons set out below. Please refund my charges as a matter of urgency.

 

I would respectfully submit that if your organisation does not agree to immediately refund all unfair charges applied to my account, it will not meet the ‘fit and proper person’ test to hold a consumer credit licence under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In that eventuality, I will submit a 1974 Act complaint to the OFT.

 

 

 

Separately, I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable at common law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79.

 

Your charges do not reflect any actual loss; instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme. In particular, charges were applied after I entered into a transaction(s) without sufficient funds in my account. However, payment was declined by you, and therefore, actual loss is the cost of automatically sending me a computer generated letter. I would respectfully submit that is valued at no more than 50 pence.

 

UK banks have recently given evidence to the House of Commons Treasury Committee on how bank charges are calculated: "The costs are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges" (2nd report, 25 January 2005, paragraph 50 – online here:

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmtreasy/274/ 27405.htm).

 

Accordingly, the charges applied to my account are not a reasonable pre-estimate of the bank’s loss in relation to my account. No-one has had to look at my account or telephone me. No one has had to collect anything. Your charges would appear to represent a device to recover global losses (for example, loan defaulters, bad debt write off, including commercial lending in, and out with, the UK).

 

Please refund all charges applied to my account within the next 14 days. I reserve the right to commence court proceedings without any further notice, and to seek an additional award for distress and inconvenience, together with legal expenses.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

Xxxxx Xxxxxx

Any thought on my best course of action here? I think i have 2 options:

 

1. Sign the letter then post them this but only detailing the 1 charge that has not been refunded and ammend the paragraph under where i list my charges.

 

2. Dont sign the letter and send this letter as is.

 

Looking forward to your responses!

 

 

[isidore]

Don't sign anything!

[isidore]

Letter is great, but have you got any further charges apart form the 76?

 

I wonder if this letter is worthwhile and you might be better off going through the normal process to claim back your charges is full.

[davidscullion]

No, no further charges. As you can see it it cheque number one that bounced, the account is only 2 months old. Not the best of starts. I tried to go through the normal procedures and thats how i ended up with the letter to sign. They said if I wanted to take it further i would have to write to them. I bet they weren't expecting a letter like that! Sent it recorded delivery yesterday. I'll update this thread with my progress!

 

The letter came from Unfair UK Bank Charges | legal help from Govan Law Centre, Glasgow, UK, i wish i could take credit for it myself!

 

 

Many Thanks

[texel]

Do not let RBOS off with anything. I would not have spent the time sending such a long letter I would just tell them I want the charges refinded or I will sue you have fourteen days from the date of this letter to comply or it will add considerable costs to your selves.

[davidscullion]

Just for the record, here is a copy of the letter they tried to get me to sign.

 

My thoughts are in red.

 

Dear Mr Xxxxxxxx

 

Please sign the letter below regarding your charges on your account. Can you please return the letter to ourselves at your earliest convenience so we can refund that charges to you as soon as possibe

 

Is it just me or does the last sentence make no sense? refund THAT charges?

 

Thanks

 

Xxxxx Xxxxxxx

Service Quality Adviser

 

 

 

Case Reference Number XXXXXXX

 

I Mr Xxxxxxxx accept the paltry offer of £38 refund, as offered by the Royal Bank Of Scotland plc as full and final settelment of my concern regarding charges.

 

I understand that there will be no further refunds of charges unless due to a bank error.

 

No way im putting my name to this, wonder how many folk they've fleeced with this letter! Could they pull this out in a few months time when you add up your previous charges and try to claim?

 

The charging structure of the Royal Bank of Scotland plc ( no capital on Of this time i notice) has been fully explained to me.

 

Yours

 

Mr Xxxxx Xxxxxx

 

 

I totaly agree with you texel. I wouldn't have sent the letter unless i was going to go all the way. Im not letting them off with anything!!

 

Thanks

 

[texel]

Good:) Keep me informed and again best of luck

[davidscullion]

Recieved the standard letter yesterday.

 

Thank you for your letter....

 

Your claim is under consideration and we will contact you as soon as possible.

 

No bloody way, were doing this on my terms! They've got 7 days from today then its LBA time!

 

Im starting to get excited even though its onlu for £76.00!

 

I'll keep yous posted

[texel]

Thatsthe stuff good luck

[davidscullion]

No reply from them as of yet so the LBA was sent by recorded delivery today. Another 14 day countdown begins.

[texel]

Good keep up the good work:D

[davidscullion]

Still no reply from them! Have got my court papers all filled and ready to go. When i file them should i add in the amount it cost me to file the claim with the small claims court or it that sorted automaticaly?

[texel]

If you are talking about the 8% the court does that for you:)

[texel]

Also I forgot to mention you have to wait until you find out on the return date of they are going to defend if so nothing else is done if they have not replied in other words they are not going to defend and you win by default hen you fill up page 11 with all your costs of filing etc.

[davidscullion]

Well i've got the letter to sign now for a full refund of the £76.00!!!!

 

I've since been charged again by rbs, can i send them a letter accepting this as a partial settelment and request this charge be refunded as well or will i need to start the whole process over again for this 1 charge?

 

Feel good to finaly get a result!!!!!

[texel]

You can suggest this and warn them that you will be sueing if they do not pay best of luck

[davidscullion]

Case Won!!! £101.00 in my pocket!! Thanks for all the help everyone!

 

One more point. Since claiming back all my charges i have gone over my overdraft and had a Direct Debit returned but have not been charged for this. Has anyone else noticed this trend or is it just me. If they were going to charge me they would have by now sice it was over a month ago that the DD was returned.

 

Dave

[hedgey06]

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

 

Please complete the bank survey

[texel]

Great news congrats. Now it was wellworth the trouble:)

[zootscoot]

:D

CONGRATULATIONS!

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