Powergen SCAM on nightrate!! Meter watchers needed.

[charlie1963]

After months of videoing my meter, endless phonecalls and visiting engineers, powergen have finally admitted that my original 12-7 nightrate was changed 2 years ago along with the meter to 10.30pm to 12.30 am and then 2.30am to 7.30am!! I was told that the meter would be changed as they were changing everyones in the area but not that the night rate would change as well. The 2nd engineer spent over an hour here watching the vids, phoned powergen and then said that the rates were because of the new meter. He went on to say that powergen had arranged this so that the substation fuses wouldn't blow at midnight on the surge of nightrate users. So, if powergen had told us, we'd all have reset timers and the problem would still have happened!! Based on the fact that my meter is on average 13 mins fast ( it runs slow and fast between timed vids) and that they have a 15min leeway on the changeover times, most people would set any timers for 12.15. That means that just as everything is firing up in the house, the meter hits day rate for 2 hours!!! just enough to get your storage heaters going, emersion etc, all at full cost!!! WHAT A RIP OFF. Only because the engineer could verify my vid evidence did powergen admit that the times had been changed. I originally thought that they were running together as they both meters changed through the night! A check meter would show nothing. Powergen told me last month that my times were 12-7 plus or minus 15 mins. The manufacturers of the meters tell me that the clocks are fully settable to within seconds!! I have vids that show the rates swap at random times within the 15 mins on top of their average 13 mins discrepancy. Some technology that is!!!! I'm off out to put an addy in the newsagents asking for anyone else to come forward if they have the same problem. This problem can only be identified if you check the meter at all the times mentioned, to ascertain which meter is running at that time. I have this real sneakin feeling that there may be thousands of people being told lies and charged a hell of a lot of money deceitfully. TIPS! Look after the engineer with a cuppa and the info is invaluable!! If you involve energywatch, they are under the impression that the engineers are independent of Powergen. Ask, find out and let energywatch know. My engineer arrived from Powergen!! Anyone got a wind turbine for sale?

[progenic7]

hi charlie,

 

from reading your thread i get the impression you have many meters, in my house i only have the one electric meter, so how come you have several ?

 

i must admit my meter is in a really aukward place so its very difficult to get at and see (talking of electric meters :o i have a slight problem with the fact i dont have a provider but im getting electric all the same, and i have not been billed since moving into this house a year ago lol)

 

does it flash up on the meter what rate is being used at the time then ?

[Guest Ruthie P]

Engineers work for your local distributor Charlie not for your supplier, if you had been supplied by scottish power you would have still got the same engineer.... I wont go into boring detail.... do you have two meters in your property? I dont understand the reference to multiple meters.... are you sure there isn't a restricted hour part to your meter?

[charlie1963]

hi sorry, i only have the one meter with two rates. that was changed for another, also with two rates but different hours and they didnt tell me i was no longer on the 12-7. in fact when i rang a couple of months back they said i was on 12-7, now theyve changed their minds after i told them i videoed the thing. anyone out there know what hours are normal for nightrate??

[ozzywizard]

Depends on your area, let us know your first 2 digits of your MPAN. should be on your meter like, 10,11,12 up to 23.

[charlie1963]

hi, what's an mpan? anyway heres all the writing on the thing.

single phase watt hour meter.

solid state digital.

1000 imp/kwh

certified 01 05

property of united utilities

AO5M

reporter

type 5194E 20-100A

1 PH 2w 50hz 230v

CI 2 2005 made in uk

Ampy automation

peterborough

PE6 8SE

england.

And after a letter from powergen this morning I rang them up anonymously and asked the woman at the end of the phone what powergens night rate hours are and she said 12-7 am. Two electricians in town say the same.

[ozzywizard]

12-7 is usual in most areas so probably correct. MPAN is your Metering Point Administration Number.

It is the unique registration number given to each domestic and small business electricity customer to help in providing quotes to customers and transferring information on customers.

It should be on your meter on a bar code, dont post this on the public forum as it is unique to you, just give the first 2 digits that is unique to your area, found on your bill also. I would also edit your above post to remove your meter number.

Ha you got a new meter 2 years old. lol.

[charlie1963]

i see what you mean but i meant the latest one!! the only barcode on the meter is the one above the meter no. failing that would it be part of the electricity supply number on the bill as there is nothing entitled mpan! if so which box is in please? i dont know if it's any help but the business meter for the lockup underneath me states that their night rate should start between 11.15pm and 11.45 pm.

[gondukin]

On your bill (usually tucked away in a corner) there will be a big S followed by two rows of numbers. It is the first two digits of the bottom row that you need.

[charlie1963]

thanks gondukin, right! that number is 16 so what does that mean please?

[ozzywizard]

It meens you are in the Northern area covered by Norweb. They are the only area to do all 3 prepay meters on card, token and key.

The Economy times in your area are.

If it has a teleswitch the cheap rates are 10.30pm - 12.30 am then 2.30am to 7.30am.

If it has a manual timeswitch then the times are 12.30 - 7.30 AM.

Times change auto for GMT.

[charlie1963]

thanks ozzie, but why are powergen telling me 12-7? and kept telling me all along even though i insisted my day meter moved through the night. so who's responsible for switching on the storage heaters then?

[charlie1963]

in fact, i'm BLAZING! they told me it was impossible for the day meter to move through the night!! What the h*ll sort of set up are they?

[ozzywizard]

I rang them up anonymously

 

I bet when you asked they didnt ask for your area, a lot of inexperienced advisors do not realize it is differant for various areas.

[charlie1963]

no she didn't, but when i was on with the complaint to begin with and they were passing me round the departments to supervisors they were still insisting that it was 12-7 give or take 15mins and they had ALL my details.

any ideas on who does switch the storage heaters on ozzie?

[ozzywizard]

They are on a timer.

[charlie1963]

Thanks, I thought I'd ask because when I asked the electricians in town, two of them hadn't a clue and the third said that they were on a radio switch!! I actually dismantled one myself in december after i had my gas heating installed and there was no timer inside it, so would that have been in my fuse box cupboard and what would it look like?

[ozzywizard]

Not sure were it is located, but I could find out for you if it is important. It is however on a radio switch that receives a global message in your area.

[charlie1963]

brilliant, thankyou so much. i must be driving you crazy with all these questions but it is helping quite a few of us here in town. it would be a real help if you could let me know who works the global switch. whether it is powergen for powergen customers, s/power for s/power etc, because obviously all of us here are area 16, and if commercial premises are switched by it as well. also you mention teleswitch meters and manual ones. is a manual one that has its own inbuilt timer and just switches over at midnight? that would explain a mates saying his storage heater came on around 11 in summer.

[ozzywizard]

I will find out for you, in the meentime here is some usefull reading.

 

 

• A radio-tele switch receives a time signal when the meter needs to switch rates so the times are not subject to change when the clocks go back or forward.
  
• An Economy 7 & or Nightsaver customer may have a radio-tele switch.
  
• Customers on Heatwise, E10, E18, Flexirate 2 or 2 will always have a radio-tele switch.
  
• An alternative to a separate timeswitch is a radio-tele meter which has the timeswitch in-built.
  
• Again this is operated by a time signal.

Restricted Hour Tariff Meters (RHT)

• An RHT meter gives a customer cheap rate electricity some time during every 24 hours for such as storage heating or under floor heating.
  
• An RHT meter will need a timeswitch to switch the meter on when the off-peak period starts & to switch it off when the off-peak period ends.

Faulty Timeswitches

• Customers with storage heating will have the storage heating wired into the timeswitch or meter so that the heaters are switched on when the off-peak period starts & off when the off-peak period ends.
  
• Customers with immersion heaters who are on Heatwise, E10 & E18 may also have their immersion heater wired into the timeswitch or meter so their hot water heats up during the off peak periods.
  
• If a timeswitch stops or goes slow or fast, the customer’s consumption will not be recorded correctly.
  
• This can also affect their heating and hot water.
  
• If a timeswitch stops or goes slow or fast, the customer’s consumption will not be recorded correctly.
  
• This can also affect their heating and hot water.
  
• Customers calling to report a faulty timeswitch should be passed to Metering Services.

[charlie1963]

cheers ozzy, . may I ask where you got the info in the last posting from? Don't bother if it's likely to get you into trouble though. It looks like i used to have a radio teleswitch then. I just need to know who works the global switch now i think, and then get a list of meter types to identify the switch type for all my mates.

[ozzywizard]

The info is from my online notes. Not available to the public as for personnel use.

[charlie1963]

I understand, many thanks for letting me have it.

I've been rooting around and find that 'metering services' is owned by e-on. Hardly independent from powergen, also owned by e-on. the teleswitch is operated by united utilities for the meter, also the storage heater time switch. I could do with knowing whether it's powergen or united utilities who actually programme the times into the timeswitch in the meter.

[progenic7]

Ozzy

 

do you work for one of the utility companies ?

[ozzywizard]

Yuppers sure do Prog. Answer Charie its UU.