Mrs thesergeant v Halifx

[thesergeant]

This really is a great site - well done. My wife and I are mulling over the faqs and considering taking action.

 

The one thing that really gets our blood boiling is the 8 days it takes Halifax to process and clear a cheque payment into a basic account. Strangely, it is no where near this long going the other way ???

 

Just another money making [problem] to get money out of us?

 

Are they acting legally? certainly not morally !!

[Mindbomb]

Hello and welcome to the fold

[mechs]

The Consumers' Association estimates that banks earn around £30m a year from the practice.

[thesergeant]

This practice really does annoy me.

 

Is it a fair trading term?

 

The only people this cheque clearance time applies to is those who are only able to open the Banks basic accounts. Therefore those most likley to have some type of financial difficulties.

 

Therefore the banks know that at some point an extended clearance time will present them opportunities to apply penalty charges.

 

What is the OFT doing to stop the banks stealing from us ?

[Mercedes1961]

It takes the banks EXACTLY three days to clear a cheque.

 

do a search on the BACS clearing system.

 

I have had this off the Halifax about taking a longer time with a basic bank account, their feeble excuse was they've had a lot of bounced cheques with basic bank accounts.

 

In my case it took them ten days ( 2 days bank holiday included) to clear a cheque.

 

There really is NO excuse for this

 

regards

 

Mercedes

[thesergeant]

There is no excuse, it is simply organised theft. They know that people whose only option due to their credit scoring, are most likley to need quick access to their money to 'financially' live. By putting in place arbitrary rules to penalise such customers makes it highly likely that they will profit from their charges [problem].

 

I would like to think that the OFT are looking at this aspect of the banks illegal practices as well :-

 

I have added a bit to the MP letter template to include this issue :-

 

 

Dear MP etc .............. >>>

 

 

I am writing to you to ask you to let me know what your views are on the serious problem of unlawful penalty charges which are levied against their customers by the UK High Street Banks.

 

It is a well established rule of Common Law that contractual penalty charges which exceed the actual losses suffered, in this case by the banks when a customer exceeds limits or a direct debit or cheque are returned, are invalid and will not be enforced by the Court. A series of judicial decisions going back over 100 years shows this to be true.

 

More recently, The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 has confirmed that a disproportionate penalty would be an example of an unfair term and that this would therefore be unenforceable at law.

The Director General of the Office of Fair Trading announced in 2005 that any penalty charge which exceeded actual losses was disproportionate.

 

Yet despite this, the Banks continue to apply these charges, and of course the vast majority of bank customers accept the banks’ authority that these excessive charges are valid and they pay up without a lot of fuss.

It is not possible that the banks do not realise what they are doing?

 

I am also very concerned by the application of extended cheque clearance times. The banks only apply such terms to the basic accounts. These accounts are almost exclusively taken up by people with poor credit ratings and/or in financial difficulties. Applying extended cheque clearance times (typically 7 working days) to people in such difficulties can only be done in the sure knowledge that the bank will be able to apply further penalty charges. It is another money making [problem], targeting the most financially vulnerable.

 

A survey reported this year by the BBC and others, concluded that one in five bank customers suffered from penalty charges in 2005. This is a large proportion of your constituency. Most of these people have incurred penalty charges because they are in difficulty. As I have said the majority of these people are vulnerable and already have difficult lives.

 

The OFT, which is empowered to investigate, shows signs of being reluctant to do so.

 

Many people have taken legal action against the banks. The banks almost never go to court. Fearing a formal judgment against them they bluff and threaten, but eventually settle before the day of the trial. Through the Intenet sites at www.ConsumerActionGroup.co.uk and also at www.BankChargesHell.co.uk I am in touch with many people who are challenging the banks, some of whom are beginning legal actions.

 

The Unlawful Penalty Charge racket is apparently worth £3 billion per year. It is not surprising that they are not anxious to give it up.

 

I would be grateful if you would reply to me and let me know what your views about this are, and what steps you would be prepared to take to bring this scandal to an end.

 

Can you think of any reason why, by their dominant position the UK, banks should hold themselves above the civil rule of law?

 

Thank you for your time.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

I am certainly going to encourage as many people as possible to send such letters to MP's and the OFT.

 

 

 

[mechs]

 

I am certainly going to encourage as many people as possible to send such letters to MP's and the OFT.

 

Will certainly send it to our MP

[neilisnuts]

I had a lengthy conversation with halifax over their policy on processing cheques.........I am told "when you write a cheque it is cleared immediately the date it is banked by the corresponding bank".....ie I give a cheque to a school for music fees for my son for £78 2 days before pay day, the school banks it the next day and it clears immediately from my bank, over the odraft and £30 charge......so I challenged them why it is that when I pay a cheque into the bank it takes up to 5 working days to clear into my bank? even when the cheque i receive is from a halifax customer..........they were not able to answer my question........so people my advice is be very aware that the banks do their own thing..........now I will think of something to tell you that we dont already know.

 

Power to the People8)

[Tosh]

I've just checked my Halifax internet banking.

 

I paid cheques into my bank on Saturday 6 May 2006.

 

They're due to clear on the 16 May 2006.

 

That's seven bank-working days. NINE DAYS in total!!!!

 

Why shouldn't weekends count either? If you, for example pay a cheque into the bank on a Thursday, what happens over the weekend? Do they have to do some sort of manual input each banking day to make sure the cheque is processed and they can't do this over the weekend?

 

Of course not.

 

I feel a complaint comming on, to the FSA, for what it's worth.

[mechs]

letter emailed to Richard Younger-Ross ... will await with interest his reply!

[thesergeant]

I have been looking on the OFT site, this may be another "unfair contract" issue.

 

We are looking at other banks, I spoke to Nationwide today. The nice call centre staff told me that they process checks within 3 days on all accounts, even the basic one.

 

When I explored their website and brought up the terms and conditions - guess what - at least 5 days for basic account holders.

 

The banks are really making huge profits off of people who are vulnerable and need the small amount of money they have, this tactic only forces people to amass the dishonest penalty charges. They are stealing from the poor to feed their fat cats!

[thesergeant]

Dear all,

 

OK so we got up the bottle to begin.

 

A cheque paid into my wifes account, took 7 working days to clear. On day 6 the 'Crapifax' bounced a Direct Debit for 17.99 and then charged 39.00.

 

We wrote a letter 'telling' then to refund it or we would look into all previous charges made on the account. They didn't take the hint.

 

Therefore DPA form being hand served on the local branch tomorrow morning.

 

Look forward to updating you as this rolls on ..................

[bram stoker]

Good luck. They should've listened hey.

 

Maybe after all this, one day they might.

[thesergeant]

I have just received my MP's reply to the letter I sent. Details of which are in an earlier post, it is the same as in the Template with an additional paragraph regarding cheque clearance times etc.

 

 

He has acknowledged that he appreciates the points raised and has written to John Vickers chairman of the Board of the Office of fair Trading, enclosing a copy of my letter. He has asked him for his advice on the points raised.

 

It would be nice to get as many MP's as possible asking the same questions !!

[thesergeant]

OK so here we go ............

 

Have received at last the Data Protection Act statements. I have calculated that they owe us £240.02.

 

However that amount includes £39.00 which is to be taken from the account on or about 10th July - we have received a letter for that charge to be taken.

 

Can I include that in the claim now, or do I wait to send my letter of claim until after that date ??

 

If I send the letter now, can I add on interest charges, furthe charges later, as I serve the LBA letters ??

 

I note that in the Consumer letter of claim there is a section concerning default notices. As I have no idea if they have or intend to as the account is slightly OD and will go further after the next charge I have amended that section (to include it) to read :-

>>>>>>>>>>>

Additionally, if you have entered a default notice or if you intend to enter a default notice against my credit record, this occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above, I require that you remove any current default or desist from any intended default entry upon the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to any such entry, current or intended is not acceptable.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Any thoughts? Should I leave this in or not include it, as I do not know if there is or isn't such a default notice. My thoughts were that they may have or may intend to so at least I put them on notice this way ;-)

 

Look forward to any thoughts any of you may have ..............

[thesergeant]

OK so here we go ............

 

Have received at last the Data Protection Act statements. I have calculated that they owe us £240.02.

 

However that amount includes £39.00 which is to be taken from the account on or about 10th July - we have received a letter for that charge to be taken.

 

Can I include that in the claim now, or do I wait to send my letter of claim until after that date ??

 

If I send the letter now, can I add on interest charges, furthe charges later, as I serve the LBA letters ??

 

I note that in the Consumer letter of claim there is a section concerning default notices. As I have no idea if they have or intend to as the account is slightly OD and will go further after the next charge I have amended that section (to include it) to read :-

>>>>>>>>>>>

Additionally, if you have entered a default notice or if you intend to enter a default notice against my credit record, this occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above, I require that you remove any current default or desist from any intended default entry upon the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to any such entry, current or intended is not acceptable.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Any thoughts? Should I leave this in or not include it, as I do not know if there is or isn't such a default notice. My thoughts were that they may have or may intend to so at least I put them on notice this way

 

Look forward to any thoughts any of you may have ..............

[TBeckett100]

with regards to the charge being applied on 10th July, I would include in your letter, you will have further time in which to send them a chaser with more charges etc if need be.

[thesergeant]

Dear all,

 

I am about to complete my and serve my claim against Halifax.

 

What expenses can I claim on top of what they owe me ?

 

Things I was considering were :

£10 Data Protection Act fee

50p per letter

 

Can I claim for a reasonable amount of time ? If so what is a reasonable hourly charge ?

 

I wold appreciate your suggestions .................

[MARTIN3030]

There has been a suggestion that 9.00 ph can be claimed.

 

Its also worth looking at contractual interest.......there has been some success with this,but you are advised to read up about this first.

 

[thesergeant]

How do I refer to these on the details of claim on moneyclaim, is simply blah blah " and the costs that I have incurred ". I take it I then need to schedule these. Can I claim daily interest on these costs ??

[thesergeant]

I am asking this as there is nowhere on moneyclaim to detail costs incurred other than the "solicitors costs" box.

[MARTIN3030]

Ok here is the text......paste it into the mc claim partics and format to 24 lines max

 

Claimant has account (A/C No) with Defendant from (Date)conducted on their standard terms and conditions. Claimant is claiming the return of (£0.00) taken by Defendant in charges over (X) years. The Defendant's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. They are also invalid under the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.Para.8 and sch.2.1.e.

In the event that the charges are not a penalty they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. Defendant has declined justification of charges despite repeated requests. Claimant claims interest under Sec.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% a year from(Date) to (Date) of (£0.00) and also interest at same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of (£0.00)

 

You will need to send your charges schedule/spreadsheet that include 8% interest calcs to the defendant and court.

 

Make sure in the sub total you include the total interest then add the court fee (it will calculate for you )

[thesergeant]

OK, but do I seperately state my charges for time/costs/letters etc ?? Also the two dates - is the first date the date at which the contract (bank account opened) began or the date of the first unlawful charge ?

[MARTIN3030]

You can list date from first unlawful charge

List your schedule from earliest charges date.

 

Work along column

 

Date of charge

 

In respect of ie U/P chq

 

amount taken

[thesergeant]

But how do I include MY costs into this ?

 

Do I add something to the details of claim stating that I am including a charge for stationnary, time and fees (£10 DPA) ?????????