VT v HSBC - over 6 years claim

[VeryTrying]

Having just managed a relatively straightforward claim with HSBC, I'm starting another one for a relative. This one I'm not too confident about since ALL the charges are over 6 years old.

 

Still, I've done a standard SAR from the template section and handed it in at a branch. The branch were very helpful and were going to print out all the statements for me to collect, until I pointed out that most of what I wanted was more than six years old. They then told me that they didn't keep anything older than six years, but perhaps that was just statements. They were happily chatting among themselves, and were quite interested in what I wanted. They couldn't grasp that I was requesting data in any form, and not just statements, and when I mentioned the possibility of microfiche, decided that they had better pass the letter up the line. So now I'm going to wait, and wait ....... and wait.

BTW, they handed me my cheque back, saying they didn't need one any more. I hope that doesn't delay things!

 

QUESTION: what are the chances of getting anything older than six years on an account which is now closed?

 

Since I have quite a lot of statements, I can produce a claim from 1991 to 2000, and ignore the gaps because I've read on other threads that it is very difficult to put in an estimated claim. However, I've reached the conclusion (and had it confirmed by Bong today in another thread) that getting ONLY 6 years+ charges paid will be quite difficult. If some charges were more recent, then you could argue the legality of the penalties in court, before also having to argue SOLA - and HSBC wouldn't want to actually go to court in case they lost. But, with no recent charges to argue, HSBC will most probably go straight to arguing SOLA, and might not mind appearing in court to do that.

 

QUESTION: should I bother or, as things stand, am I bound to lose? Of course, it's no great trouble to at least write the preliminary and the LBA. Nor is it a great difficulty to pay MCOL (and not get it reimbursed).

 

Comments and advice gratefully received.

[Guest bong]

I think it depends on whether you are prepared for this claim to end up in court.

 

Whilst we all have to be prepared for the fact that any claim could end up in a court hearing, I think the majority of people with standard 6 year claims realise that there is only a minute prospect of it actually going that far. I think it is almost a dead cert. that this type of claim would end up in a hearing or get very close to one, in which case you would have to be fully versed in your arguments and prepared for court. Whilst you will get lots of help and guidance in the forum before it gets that far, it is you who would have to do the necessary work in the courtroom.

 

How much, roughly, is the claim?

 

I dont think you are likely to get the data from HSBC and you will probably have to rely on the records you already have.

 

I wouldn't like to guess at your chances but I would say there is a chance of success. I think we have some pretty good ammunition to use against them but there have been claims like this (not against HSBC as far as I know) that have been struck out. We are learning from this and would probably have a few tricks to throw at them now, however, it is a gamble and if you decide to go ahead, I will gladly offer my assistance with it.

 

let us know what you decide to do!

[VeryTrying]

Bong, I EXPECT the claim to end up in court since there is no reason for HSBC to settle earlier. I've done a lot of reading around Section 32(1)(b) and(1) © of the 1980 act, but would prefer to argue the lawfullness of the charges initially (knowing the bank won't turn up for that), then SOLA. Unfortunately, without any charges within the last six years, the bank will jump straight into SOLA, ignoring the lawfullness of the penalty charges.

 

It's not a lot of money, under £1k for the charges and about the same for the 8% when I get as far as MCOL - so £2,000 in total. I'd enjoy doing it for the challenge, just so long as it didn't cost more than the filing fee and the AQ.

 

I'll sit back quietly for now and see what my SAR produces ...... and keep reading what everybody else is up to!

[bennyowen]

VeryTrying,

 

You are not alone. Many people are using the Limitations Act 1980 Section 32(1)(b) and 1© successfully. As far as I know, the banks have not come to defend any in court. They have settled after trying to fob people off.

 

Good luck

[Guest bong]

I think the way to tackle it VT would be to anticipate their defence right from the word go, i.e. in your particulars of claim.

[VeryTrying]

Yes, Bong. I was also thinking of bringing their defence up even earlier, at least at LBA stage, just so that they knew I meant it, rather than was just trying it on.

 

I've seen references to unfair contract terms not being applicable to accounts opened prior to 1995-ish, so I have to review this area to get it right for the POC as well. When I've read (and understood) more widely, I'll put something together and post for review ..... but likely not to be for quite a while because they've still got 38 days left on the SAR!

 

What I want to make sure of is that I don't let OUR side down by an ill-thought out and incompletely researched approach. If DG/HSBC get too many wins, they might begin to think they are right.

 

And Benny, thanks for the support, I'll creep slowly forward, there's no rush yet.

[VeryTrying]

Preliminary letter done today. Only 3 statements are missing and since HSBC are unlikely to provide anything much under the SAR, I may as well make a start. If any further information is disclosed I can add these charges on until the MCOL stage.

 

I'll let you know of any response we get ...... but I'm not expecting anything this side of May! Does anybody know how long Colin's backlog is at the moment?

[Gez]

I'm doing almost the same thing, except charges go from 1999-2003. I will pursue contractual interest (18.3%) & in the alternative S.69 8%.

We already have the statements for this one so we can et cracking, but I want to read & understand 110% before I start. Just like you, I want to push all the way with this as long as losing would only mean court fees. The reward for winning, in my opinion, make it worth the risk.

This thread by livelylad has some great info, read particularly page 8, there's a great draft for POC.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/37418-claiming-1991-2000-fight.html

 

Good luck, I'll be watching