N1 help re CCA request failure and Default Notice non-disclosure

[jamesbond]

go for it guys...if you agree with my post feel free to click on my scales uniboy...good luck to you both...007

[forthepeople]

What happened with this? Is it continued in another thread? Was there any success? Hope so!

[un1boy]

What happened with this? Is it continued in another thread? Was there any success? Hope so!

 

It's a VERY loing stiry, I will post later when I have time but nothing has happended - it's been 6 months now and I am fed up of sending letters.

 

I will be issuing an N1 so will need everyone's help re: POCS!! (if that's ok?)

[forthepeople]

I will be issuing an N1 so will need everyone's help re: POCS!! (if that's ok?)

 

As you know, I'm looking into this with my case where there's no copy of agreement or default notice, so at least half (default part) should be similar?

 

The results will be well worth it, hang in there un1boy .

[un1boy]

As you know, I'm looking into this with my case where there's no copy of agreement or default notice, so at least half (default part) should be similar?

 

The results will be well worth it, hang in there un1boy .

 

Hiya mate....

 

Where is your thread on this?

[forthepeople]

Hiya mate....

 

Where is your thread on this?

 

 

This one, remeber?! Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/60131-_-_-forthepeople-natwest.html

[un1boy]

This one, remeber?! Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/60131-_-_-forthepeople-natwest.html

 

Oh yeah, durr!! (to me!)

[forthepeople]

I am far from an expert and all this is quite new to me but in your circumstances would do this, as Surlybonds says in his recent thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/24013-defaults-proposed-method-removal.html

 

1) Write to company requesting they stop processing your data within 21 days then

2) Send them the letter after 21 days advising they are in breach of DPA as still flagging default with credit reference agencies

 

What do you think? The template letters are on his above thread and would need to adjusted only very slightly.

[un1boy]

What happened with this? Is it continued in another thread? Was there any success? Hope so!

 

Ok, let me update you (in a nutshell)

 

the agreement they sent me has no prescribed terms, thus, it is unenforcable (even with a court order).

 

I have spent the last few months exchanging letters (which I can post, if you want?) but to no avail. I am fed up with agiving them chance upon chance now, so the Sunday Mirror and Watchdog are investigating....as is TS, the ICO and the FOS.

 

we will see what happens.

 

On top of not providing the relevant agreement, there were no default notices either......which they believe there were and TS are agreeing with them, I think - I'm waiting for TS to get in contact with me again.

 

Also, had a letter from the DCA saying that the current account agreement is an example of running-account creidt, which is exempt from the CCA - needless to say that I wrote back explaining that running-account credit was covered, with the relevant bits from the CCA - not heard from them since.

 

Hope this makes sense, I will post letters etc later if you think it will help?

[un1boy]

Ok, so TS have been investigating the fact that HSBC haven't sent me default notices. I sent him a copy of my agreement...here is his reply:

 

Hi un1boy,

 

After taking some advice on this matter, it would appear that if there was no APR on your agreement, that agreement could be unenforceable. This is a matter that you should take up with HSBC. At the end of the day only the courts could give a definitive answer. This would be the Civil Court if HSBC wished to go ahead and try to enforce action against your debt.

 

I hope this information is helpful.

 

I thought it was TS that had to take action on it?

 

This is the reply I got from the OFT:

 

Thank you for your recent e mail.

 

I am sorry to hear of your problem but unfortunately the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) is unable to help you on this occasion, as we do not have the power to advise or assist individual consumers. Nor can we normally comment or take action on cases brought to us by individual consumers. Our primary duties are to enforce competition law, regulate the consumer credit market through a licensing system and the co-ordination of enforcement action throughout the UK, with the assistance of our other regulatory partners.

 

Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, most businesses that offer goods or services on credit or lend money to consumers, have to be licensed by the OFT. The OFT can refuse or revoke the firm’s credit licence if it engages in ‘unfair or improper business practices, whether unlawful or not’.

 

We are unable to take up individual cases, but if you would like to make a complaint to us about the practices of this particular business you can send the details to:

 

Credit Licensing Enforcement

Office of Fair Trading

Fleetbank House

2-6 Salisbury Square

LONDON

EC4Y 8JX

 

However, we suggest you contact Consumer Direct (http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk) for advice on this matter. Consumer Direct is a telephone (08454 04 05 06) and online advice and information service for consumers in Great Britain.

 

We hope this information is helpful and this matter is resolved to your satisfaction as soon as possible.

[un1boy]

Hhi guys

I have been doing a lot of letter writing to and frow over the last few months I've not been posting to this thread.

 

I gave HSBC 7 days to reply, otherwise my offer of a reduced settlement would be revoked and i would claim for everythin i am entitled to and also issue them with a default notice under section 85.

 

I'll keep you updated, but I am ready to take this to court, so any help with POC's etc would be greatly apprecaited!!

 

I am now ready to take this further as I don't have the time to keep playing silly bu@@ers with them.

 

I sent them a letter advising that I have referred them to the police, fsa, ts, oft and fos and i have sent all of them details of the sitaution.

[un1boy]

Ok, got this reply from the police:

 

Dear un1boy

 

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated xxx.

 

I will arrange for the issues raised to be looked at and you be contacted again in due course.

 

Now,

 

I'm not too hopeful, but we will see what happpens...

[un1boy]

I have been thinking: Do wew have a right to see the contract that CRA'a and lenders have between each other, under the DPA?

 

The thought begind this is that the DPA gives us rights to see all data and information that a company holds on us - if these companies have a contract regarding how they process and store our data then surely that agreement relates to us and therefore becomes part of our request?

 

Now, even if it is a generic contract surely we should be able to see it as it effects the way they process and store our data?

[un1boy]

I am sending a DPA request to Equifax and I will post their replies etc on here.

 

I am also asking for a copy of the contract they hold with their clients.

 

I will post letter etc as soon as it is finalised.

[file_wizzard]

No, as it would be considered to be a contract in confidence between the two parties, and as third party with no legitimate interest in the private contract you would have no cause or right to obtain commercialy sensitive data.

 

A subject access request under the DPA would only relate to data that could be used to identity the individual in question, and a commercial contract between businesses is clearly well outside of this scope.

[un1boy]

Ah but we do have a ligitimate interest in that contract - as it stipulates ow they can and can't process data that identifies us as individuals, is that not the case?

 

Just like that we can ask to see the public liability insurance certs at work/public places to make sure they are covered correctly.....that's a private contract but it is in our interest to make sure the relevant company is covered!!

[file_wizzard]

I think you would find they would argue otherwise!, and a court would probably agree with them.

 

The agreements between the parties on data processing would be generic in nature, and would not identify individuals, hence it would not be considered “relevant data” within the bounds of the Act.

 

The mechanics of how the data is processed is governed DPA, how the commercial contract is arranged is another matter entirely.

 

Conversely if the CRA’s were a public body you could obtain this contract / data under the freedom of information act.

[un1boy]

Hmmm....

 

I understand where you are coming from, however the CRA's don't conform to the DPA, do they? Otherwise they would remove our data when we ask and also make sure that it is true and accurate by obtaining evidence, not simply asking their clients.

 

I am going to test this and I'll post the details.

 

I still think we have a right to see the agreement they hold and I know that they would argue the toss. However, if they ad nothing to hide, they would show it - so, I guess we will see what happens.

[file_wizzard]

Ah but we do have a ligitimate interest in that contract - as it stipulates ow they can and can't process data that identifies us as individuals, is that not the case?

 

Just like that we can ask to see the public liability insurance certs at work/public places to make sure they are covered correctly.....that's a private contract but it is in our interest to make sure the relevant company is covered!!

quite right you can ask, and it's a lawful requirement to display them or produce them upon request, however this example is governed by specific legislation, I think you will be hard push to demonstrate a true legitimate interest in a commercially sensitive contract.

 

Give it a go though, will be interesting to see what excuses they come up with

[un1boy]

I have just had this response from TS:

 

Bear in mind that they have failed to supply me with a copy of the terms and conditions relevant at the time and so have breached the requirements of that act and my sec 78 request.

 

Further to your request for further investigation into your complaint. Having looked at Section 78 of the CCA it would appear that you have requested a copy of the Default Notice. xxx have correctly stated that they are not obliged to forward a copy of this document. Section 78 does not require them to do this.

They have provided a copy of request form and a signed copy of the Credit Agreement which stated that you have read and agree to be bound by the Terms and Conditions Attached.

As previously stated if they do not put the APR on your agreement then that agreement could be unenforceable in the Civil Courts.

With regards to a prosecution we look at all the circumstances and do not prosecute on every complaint. We do not feel that there are sufficient circumstance to institute an investigation against xxx.

If you have any specific issues regarding a debt or debt counselling you can contact our Consumer Advice Centre on

I want to reply to this but would really appreciate some help and ideas from everyone

Thanks.

[un1boy]

Will do - stick around and I'll keep you posted!!

[Peterbard]

Hi Uni

are the T and C's or any other documents mentioned in the agreement does it say to be sent credit limit or anything like that..

 

Peter

[un1boy]

Hi Uni

are the T and C's or any other documents mentioned in the agreement does it say to be sent credit limit or anything like that..

 

Peter

 

 

Nope, they haven't sent my any T and C's and the agreement itself has no prescribed terms or anything......

 

I requested a copy of he default notice as part of my CCA request.

 

Although TS may not be investigsating to prosecute them - they have commited a criminal offence by not satisfying my sec 78 request by supplying my terms and conditions....but TS don't seem interested in that.

 

What is the point in these regulatory bodies if they don't regulate?

[un1boy]

Nope, they haven't sent my any T and C's and the agreement itself has no prescribed terms or anything......

 

I requested a copy of he default notice as part of my CCA request.

 

Although TS may not be investigsating to prosecute them - they have commited a criminal offence by not satisfying my sec 78 request by supplying my terms and conditions....but TS don't seem interested in that.

 

What is the point in these regulatory bodies if they don't regulate?

 

**BUMP**

 

(Just in case the emails weren't being sent at the time!)

[Smoothy]

Self regulation......dont ya just love it!

 

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