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Nawanda Vs HSBC


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Hello all,

 

My claim is coming to the crunch this coming Wednesday so I thought I'd post some details and keep you up-to-date.

 

I sent my preliminary letter on 24th Feb (arrived at 8 Canada Square 26th Feb). The 14 days elapsed on Mon 12th March, so I sent my LBA.

 

I then bizarrely received a letter from Colin Langdale on Tuesday 13th March, dated 9th March, acknowledging my letter of the 5th March! The letter just said they would write back in full when they have investigated. Have they chosen to use incorrect dates on the pretext of meeting FSA regulations for acknowledging a complaint? There was a standard leaflet included.

 

Anyway they have until Wednesday to stump up in full before I issue a claim.

 

I had one or two questions though. I was hoping to complete a moneyclaim online but I don't use a credit card through choice, can the fees be paid with a debit card?

 

Can I claim back the postage costs for sending the letters, and a modest administration charge per hour for sending the letters and claiming? If it went to court, could I claim back my travel and loss of earnings?

 

I hate HSBC for kicking me while I was down financially over a 2 year period. I was never more than about £200 overdrawn, and they were hitting me for £150-290 a month in charges, perpetuating my debt and making my life miserable for the last 2 weeks of every month. They took £1,700 from me.

 

For this reason I included the optional bit about reporting them to the OFT on the grounds that they are not a 'fit and proper' person to hold a consumer credit license, in my LBA, and intend to carry this out, but I haven't found a template letter for this or any address to send my letter to.

 

Sorry about all the questions and thank you for sharing your success stories, they have been a huge motivation to me.

 

Cheers.

 

N.

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Well done for getting this far. You can use your debit card on mcol. Ihave to tell you that it could still be a long haul from mcol. There have been people on this site who claimed for their time but the solicitors are reluctant to pay this and your claim may take longer and actually get into court.

 

Best of luck, keep us posted.:)

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The other thing to bear in mind if claiming you time is that it must be reasonable. You can't charge lawyer rates of £100 per hour etc otherwise the judge will not entertain your claim.

Guide to claiming back your bank charges

 

Most of your questions can be answered by following this link.

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The banks have no argument against a straight "give me my money back" claim for unlawful bank charges and interest, therefore these claims will be processed faster and you will get your money that bit quicker.

 

If you add anything a little different you will have to argue your corner at least against the solicitors if not actually in court, this will delay settlement of your claim.

 

The other thing to consider is DG (HSBS's solicitors) and the County Courts are snowed under and it will only get worse as the claims build. If you ask for anything beyond the norm a Judge will have to study it properly rather than looking through letters and templates they are familiar with. This will also inevitably cause delays to your claim.

 

I suggest you read Bong's thread for an idea of what might be involved with something a little different; she claimed contractual interest and exceeded the 6 year claim limit. She did a brilliant job and won her case but it will give you an idea of what might be involved if you give the lawyers something to argue with you about.

 

pete

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hi there,

 

as a 'litigant in person', you are allowed to charge £9.25 per hour for the time you put in (rate may not be completely up to date).

 

you can claim for any loss of earnings, postage and even parking, but you will need to be reasonable......if you get anywhere near a judge that is.

 

i think it unlikely that they will cough up for your costs unless a judge tells them to, and they are paying up before anyone gets to court...and if they make you an offer for the full amount, you have no realistic choice but to accept.

 

good luck, liz

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Hello all,

 

Thank you for all your kind words and advice. First a quick update. I have had no further correspondance from HSBC so have just completed an MCOL.

 

Tomorrow I am posting my 2 copies of schedule of charges to the MCOL processing centre.

 

Having considered the advice on this forum I decided against complicating the claim by going after postage costs etc as discussed above.

 

nobody offered any advice on my question about that to say in my letter to the OFT, so I have winged it a bit and sent the below. I should make clear that my whole goal is to get my money plus interest back and moaning to the OFT is just a satisfying way for me to stick the boot in, ie it probably won't achieve much but it feels good.

 

Anyway this is what I send the OFT tomorrow, will let you know what happens next with my claim and if I get a response from the OFT.

 

Regards

 

nawanda

 

========

 

Enquiries Unit

Office of Fair Trading

Fleetbank House

2-6 Salisbury Square

London, EC4Y 8JX.

Thursday 29th March, 2007

RE: HSBC Bank PLC

Dear Sir or Madam,

I wish to submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint against HSBC Bank Plc.

Under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 penalty charges must reflect administration costs and cannot be punitive. It is my assertion that it is an implied terms of the contracts I signed when I opened my accounts with HSBC Bank Plc that HSBC Bank Plc would conduct itself lawfully and in a way which complies with UK law.

I have been a customer of HSBC bank since September 1996. Over a two year period between August 2004 and June 2006, HSBC levied a total of £1,689.00 in charges relating to exceeding overdraft limits and direct debit refusals to my accounts.

I have asked HSBC Bank Plc, in writing, to defend their charges, by providing me with a breakdown which shows that the charges reflect the costs incurred on my accounts, and have requested that the charges imposed on my accounts be refunded in full, in light of the above, but HSBC have so far failed to meet either of these requests and have left me with no option but to serve court papers on them.

Given the nature of these charges, which the OFT recognised to be unfair in its direction of 5th April 2006, and HSBC’s failure to either disprove that they are illegal or agree to refund them to me within 28 days of my complaint to them, I do not consider them to be a ‘fit and proper person’ to hold a Consumer Credit License. I have enclosed a schedule of the charges they have levied against me, which I am sure you will agree are excessive and punitive.

I am aware that the OFT cannot provide advice or assistance to individual consumers, respectfully thank you for your time, and would be happy to provide you with more particulars of my case upon your request.

Yours sincerely,

 

[nawanda]

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  • 5 weeks later...

Hello all,

 

An update.

 

Even though I have bundled my claim for charges against two seperate HSBC bank accounts together, HSBC have today made me seperate written offers of settlement.

 

However HSBC seem to have confused their figures somewhere.

 

For account one, HSBC charged me £1,578, and refunded £125 to me (which I deducted from the claim), leaving total charges for account one of £1,453.

 

For account two, HSBC charged me £236.

 

Therefore I demanded £1,689 back in my original letters, which is the £1,453 + £236. Since then the £1,689 has increased to £2,039.89 (including interest at 8% £120 MCOL fee)

 

However today I have received two letters from HSBC, one relating to each bank account.

 

The letter for account one has offered me £1,341 against a claim of £1,689 (EVEN THOUGH I have claimed £1,453, not £1,689, of charges)

 

The letter for account two has offered me £256 against a claim of £236 (ie MORE THAN the original charges!)

 

So they have offered me a total of £1597.

 

Obviously I am not going to accept this as final settlement, but I wanted some advice on which is the best way to proceed. The bank has entered a defence in the last day or so also. I want every penny of the £2,039.89 back and will take it as far as I have to because it's my money and I want every penny back! I am just concerned that they have their sums wrong and how this should influence the wording of my response.

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This is my draft response, please feel free to offer advice/corrections. I will post this on Monday otherwise.

 

RESPONSE TO SETTLEMENT OFFERS

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your two letters of April 25th 2007 (references above), in which you offered me the sums of £1,341.00 and £256.00 in settlement of my request for the repayment of bank charges levied on my accounts by yourselves.

I respectfully decline your offer of Full and Final settlement.

You may not be aware that I commenced legal action against you for the full amount plus interest and costs on 28/03/07 and I would ask that you now refer this matter to your legal department for further instruction. As of the date of this letter, my total claim amount is £2,052.10.

BREAKDOWN OF CLAIM

Charges levied from account 4X-XX-XX 6XXXXX9 since 10/8/04 £1,453

Charges levied from account 4X-XX-XX 8XXXXX7 since 10/8/04 £236

*Interest per Section 69 County Courts Act 1984 at rate of 8% PA £230.89

Court Fee £120

TOTAL CLAIM AS OF 28/03/07 (Date legal action commenced) £2,039.89

TOTAL CLAIM AS OF 30/04/07 (Date of this letter) £2,052.10

* Interest continuing at 8% a year at a daily rate of £0.37 until settlement or judgement.

I wish to stress that I do not accept your Full and Final settlement of £1,597 (£1,341+ £256).

Should you wish to settle my claim in full, then please forward the balance of the claim (£2,052.10 as of 30/04/07, adding £0.37 for each additional day beyond this date until settlement is received), without further conditions and I will inform the court that the claim is settled.

I trust that this clarifies my position.

Yours faithfully

Nawanda

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i suggest you take a lead from the rejection letters and put a line in after the i respectfully decline. ... make the next sentence: I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder with a County Court claim.

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Very nice :) It looks to me like you have everything pretty much under control there. Good to see that you informed them of the legal action as well as you'll now be dealing with DG.

 

Good luck :D

DCA's - they have the same power as an infinite number of untrained chimps working on a script for Hamlet, but the chimps would probably at least get it right :D

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i suggest you take a lead from the rejection letters and put a line in after the i respectfully decline. ... make the next sentence: I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder with a County Court claim.

 

Thanks once again for everyone's advice and encouragement.

 

If I add this line, what are the chances, based on experience, of them paying just the £1,597 as a partial settlement? Would I have to issue a new claim for the remainder, or just inform the court that partial settlement has been made but that I am continuing for the rest? Also, wouldn't I have to recalculate the interest, and wouldn't this get messy?

 

I noticed this line about accepting the offer on the understanding that it is a part payment in some of the earlier letters, designed to be sent before the Claim stage, but wasn't sure it was the best thing to do now the offer has come so late on, as it were.

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zero chance

 

OK, I have added that line to my draft letter! Thank you!

 

I will post details when I receive the bank's defence and see what happens with regards to the AQ. Look like I'll be making my donation soon, one way or another.

 

I think I should also send copies of the offer letters and my response to DG, as they were nominated as the Defendent contact details on the acknowledgement of claim the court send me 4 weeks ago.

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yes, we advise sending 2 copies of your breakdown to the court and one to dg when you get your acknowledgment - so send them now if you haven't already done that asking for them to be attached to your claim - and to dg - yes, send copies of the offer and your rejection - it won't hurt. the short cover note for the breakdowns is in the thread getting mcol right. which should be in my signature if this post is long enough.

long enough

long enough

long enough....lol

 

long enough

long enough

long enough

long enough

 

 

 

hell's bells - here's the link:Getting MCOL Right

 

oh, now......it puts it on!!!!!!!!lol

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello all,

 

An update. 10 days ago I wrote to HSBC, rejecting their settlement offer. I also sent a copy of HSBC's offer letter and my rejection to DG Solicitors, including another schedule of charges as discussed above, and wrote to my MP Ivan Lewis.

 

Today I have received Notice of Transfer of Proceedings from the court, notifying me that the case is now being transferred to my local (Bury) county court.

 

I am concerned though, because the cover letter says 'Please read the accompanying documents carefully and note that the allocation questonnaire should be returned to the Bury County Court'.

 

The following documents are attached to the cover letter

 

1) A piece of paper headed Northampton County Court, the most important bit says 'It is ordered that....the filing of an allocation questionnaire be dispensed with in this case unless the District Judge at the court of transfer orders otherwise.'

 

DOES THIS MEAN I DON'T HAVE TO BOTHER WITH AN AQ? I have never received one.

 

2) A photocopy of the Defence, I thought I would share the wording of the Defence with you....

 

"1. The Claimaint's account is governed by the Defendant's personal and/or business banking terms and conditions.

2. Pursuant to the Defendant's terms and conditions the Defendant is entitled to make a charge for its services as set out in the Defendant's price list, including an overdraft review fee for considering whether to provide and providing and overdraft.

3. The Defendant denies that the charges applied to the Claimaint's account amount to penalties at common law and/or unfair contract terms for the purposes of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (UTCCRs).

4. The charges applied to the Claimant's account are reasonable and are properly and fully disclosed in the Defendant's terms and conditions and published price list. The charges represent the contractually agreed price for the service provided and the UTCCRs are not applicable to them; alternatively, they are not unfair contrary to the UTCCRs. Further, the charges are not default charges and, accordingly, cannot amount to a penalty.

5. Save as set out above, each and every allegation made by the Claimant is denied. For the reasons set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief."

 

Is this the standard Defence? What is 'relief'?

 

And the above two documents were all that was attached.

 

At every stage of this so far I have known exactly what to do next. Now I have no idea, there doesn't seem to be anything for me to do. What happens now?

 

Thanks as ever.

 

Nawanda

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absolutely normal.

 

see my thread:New---after 28 Days - Maybe No Aq!!!!!!! (multipage.gif1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page

that should help you understand what is going on.

the tiny problem we have is that once it is transferred to the local judge - he can react in several different ways - so we can't say exactly what will happen next.

the aq is being dispensed with. we know that. the defence is standard, no problems there. so, you can follow the advice on post one of my thread - which is to write to dg - send them a nudge letter.

and a new letter every 10 days until they offer.

as for the court side of things - just give the local judge a week or so to decide what he wants to do and if you've heard nothing - just ring the court and ask if they need any info from you and do they still want an allocation fee to be paid (this too is a local decision). just keep in touch with the court but in the meantime start writing a nudge to dg every 10 days.

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  • 2 weeks later...
absolutely normal.

 

as for the court side of things - just give the local judge a week or so to decide what he wants to do and if you've heard nothing - just ring the court and ask if they need any info from you and do they still want an allocation fee to be paid (this too is a local decision). just keep in touch with the court but in the meantime start writing a nudge to dg every 10 days.

 

Posting my first 'nudge' to DG tomorrow.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I note that you have not responded to my letter of 30/04/07.

 

It has come to my attention that as of 04/05/07, an Allocation Questionnaire may not be required in this case.

 

I am mindful of the vast number of claims with which you are currently dealing. In order to more speedily resolve this matter, I am willing to accept the sum of £2,059.00. I do not agree to waive my rights in respect of any other actions, nor do I agree to a clause of confidentiality.

 

I hope to hear from you very soon so that a reasonable conclusion to this claim might be achieved. I am sure that the courts would approve of our settling this matter in a timely manner and without their further intervention.

 

In the event that you decline to pay me £2,059.00 in settlement of my claim, please be aware that I shall proceed with my claim through the court, and that interest is accruing daily on my claim at the rate of £0.37 per day.

 

Here is an updated statement of my claim in full.

 

Charges levied from account 4X-XX-XX XXXXXXX9 since 10/8/04 £1,453.00

Charges levied from account 4X-XX-XX XXXXXXX7 since 10/8/04 £236.00

*Interest per Section 69 County Courts Act 1984 at rate of 8% PA £230.89

Court Fee £120.00

TOTAL CLAIM AS OF 28/03/07 (Date legal action commenced) £2,039.89

TOTAL CLAIM AS OF 20/05/07 (Date of this letter) £2,059.50

 

* Interest continuing at 8% a year at a daily rate of £0.37 until settlement or judgement.

 

HSBC Bank PLC have already received two copies of the detailed schedule of the charges I am claiming back, the court has received a copy and attached it to my claim, and I sent a copy directly to your office on 30/04/07.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

[Nawanda]

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your letter looks good to me, although i would re-jiggle the order of it, so it reads like this:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account: xxxxxxxx

Sort Code xx-xx-xx

Claim No: xxxxxxxx in xxxxxxx County Court

 

 

I note that you have not responded to my letter of 30/04/07.

 

It has come to my attention that as of 04/05/07, an Allocation Questionnaire may not be required in this case.

 

I am mindful of the vast number of claims with which you are currently dealing. In order to more speedily resolve this matter, I am willing to accept the offer of £2,059.00 as full & final settlement for the above claim without prejudice and I reserve the right to make any further claims should you apply future charges that may be considered unlawful under common law or in violation of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 or Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.

I am also not prepared to agree to any confidentially clauses you try to impose, unless of course your client wishes to make an offer of due consideration in addition to the amount of £xxxx, in order to be afforded this privilege by myself.

 

In the event that you decline to pay me £2,059.00 in settlement of my claim, please be aware that I shall proceed with my claim through the court, and that interest is accruing daily on my claim at the rate of £0.37 per day.

 

I hope to hear from you very soon so that a reasonable conclusion to this claim might be achieved. I am sure that the courts would approve of our settling this matter in a timely manner and without their further intervention.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

instead of listing your updated statement of claim, just send another copy of your schedule of charges instead :)

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Help please!

 

I have today received a court order as follows today:

 

1) Not later than 16.00 hours on the 31st May 2007 rhe claimant shall file at court with a copy for service upon the defendany a statement of case setting out with the clarity required to prove the claim at trial each and every item which the claimant seeks to recover giving the date and amount of each sum together with the calculation of interest claimed in respect of each.

2) In default of compliance with paragraph 1 above the claim shall be struck out as disclosing no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim without further notice.

3) Because this Order has been made by the Court without considering representations from the parties, the parties have the right to apply to have the order set aside, varied or stayed. A party wishing to make an application must send or deliver the application to the court (together with any appropriate fee) to arrive within seven days of the service of this Order.

This is all starting to drag on! Please advise me as to exactly what I need to send to the court? Is this just yet another copy of my schedule of charges?

 

Can someone tell me what having an order 'stayed' would mean? I can guess what 'varied' and 'set aside' mean.

 

Thanks folks.

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