fr33jack Vs Abbey

[fr33jack]

Sent my request for statement letter of today with £10 cheque, after reading the whole of teedum's thread im expecting a long one

 

Just so you all know ill be asking alot of questions as i strugle understanding complex question and information so please all bare with me

 

just looked at the last 6 statements i have at home and they have had £900 in charges from me

[Perseus]

Hi fr33jack

 

Welcome! There's no problem with asking questions...there's a lot of people here ready with answers!

 

Don't forget to check the FAQ's and the Step-by-Step guide, it may help you to understand some things, without the need to ask!

 

All the best

Perseus

[fendyweather]

Go get em fr33jack. Take back what is rightfully yours. Best of Luck. Fend xx

[fr33jack]

I sent the request out today but i actually emailed them aswell last night ive just had a reply.

 

Hello Mr ******,

 

Thanks for your e-mail regarding bank statements.

 

Abbey is unable to provide a list of charges separately from a customer's bank statement, as this data is not stored separately from other transactional data. Legally, under the Data Protection Act, we are obliged to provide all transactional data still held on the computer system within 40 days of the original request and the statutory £10 fee we are entitled to charge, being received by Abbey.

 

The information held on the computer system will amount to transactions covering the last 14 months on most banking accounts, and we provide this free of charge. Any older transactions not available on our system will have been archived onto microfiche and are not covered by the Data Protection Act. We charge a £10.00 administration fee per account to our customers for retrieval of this data.

 

If you would like more information regarding your rights relating to the Data Protection Act, please visit the Information Commissioner's Office website. I have included the link below for your convenience, however this is an external website and therefore Abbey is not responsible for the content:

 

www.ico.gov.uk

 

I'm sorry that I can't act on an e-mail request to order duplicate statements - as e-mail isn't 100% secure, we're not able to identify you this way. (We want to help keep your details safe - so it's a good idea to keep personal information to a minimum when using e-mail.)

 

You can order Duplicate Statements* for an Abbey current account either online, via our e-banking service**, or by calling us on 0845 9 724724. We're available 7am to 11pm, Monday to Saturday.

 

Or, you can write to us at:

 

Abbey

PO Box 1109

Bradford

BD1 5ZJ

 

*If the details you require include transactions that are more than 14 months old, or relate to anything above the last 200 transactions, then give us a ring first. If the transaction details have been archived we'll need to order them separately, and there's a charge of £10. You can choose to pay the fee by sending us a cheque or giving us permission to debit your Abbey current account.

 

**If you've got an Abbey Visa Debit, Electron or Cash Card, you can register for our e-banking service by either calling us on the above number, visiting a branch with some identification, or registering at one of our cash machines by selecting 'Other Services', then 'e-banking Registration' and following the instructions on screen.

 

I hope this helps Mr ******* and that you receive your statements soon.

 

Kind regards

 

Jenny Venters

Abbey Customer Services

 

Please note that we may have removed some information from your original message. We want to help keep your details safe - so it's a good idea to keep personal information to a minimum when using e-mail.

i am right in assuming this is common practise from Abbey?

[Perseus]

Hi again

 

The OFT have already ruled/commented on microfiche records.

 

Read this post here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/2440-abbey-data-protection-act.html - there's a lot of very relevant info here - template letter to include and argue microfiche disclosure, and also a response by the OFT with it's quote included.

 

I would recommend reading and using all the info in this post in your reply. Stick to YOUR deadline, not theirs, and be willing to threaten them with complaint letters to the authorities in the same letter.

Send it Special Delivery so there is no confusion over receipt - and it's signed for next day!

 

I would cut & paste the relevant bits - but to be honest, nearly all of it could be re-posted here!

 

Hope this helps.

Perseus

[fr33jack]

recieved this letter this morning from scABBEY.

 

dear mr *******

 

weve noticed that the way you run your account has changed recently and wondered if we can help?

 

were happy to discuss any concerns you have, or run through your options if youve had a change in circumstances. just give us a call on the above phone number or visit your local branch.

 

IF THINGS STAY THE SAME, WE WILL HAVE TO WITHDRAW YOUR OVERDRAFT. OF COURSE, IF THIS IS NECESSARY, WELL LET YOU KNOW IN ADVANCE.

 

FROM Cathy Robertson

Head of customer service banking

 

 

is this coinsidence or scare tactics

 

my account has had no problems for 3 months now so why the letter?

 

my O/D is £17500 and i nearly owe them the lot so i would be up the swonny

[Lula]

christ almighty, how much do you think that you will be claiming baclk? you need to open another account very quickly and then start getting these statements back pretty quick, do a spreadsheet for the amount that you have already from statements that you already hold then slap a letter in so that the account is in dispute, a reserve the right , in the letter, to amend the total once you receive your statements.

 

i would agree with them, a monthly amount, that you can comfortably afford, to keep them off your back and keep to the repayment schedule.

 

Hope this helps

[Perseus]

Definitely open another account asap - like - tomorrow maybe?

That's not a typo is it? It is £17500?

 

Do you have a special arrangement for repayments on your overdraft, or have they let you hold this o/d as a running balance? (I sincerely hope not, as this would surely be a case of negligence and very irresponsible lending on their part!!)

 

If you do have an arrangement - and once you've openened your new account - transfered your direct debits/salary etc - make an offer of repayment as close to what you pay in now (they'll smell a rat as soon as your wages don't go in) - and make sure you advise them clearly that you hold the account in dispute re charges etc.

Have you had any warnings/defaults etc about your o/d?

Without prying too much - are you hopeful that the amount of charges you may have will clear a majority of the overdraft?

I pressume you are paying a hefty amount of interest on this o/d facility? - and that being, if there are a large amount of charges - you may be able to reclaim some amount of that interest back.....

First thing is tto get that letter of about the statements.....

We'll go from there.

Perseus

[fr33jack]

lol sorry it was a typo i ment £1750

[fr33jack]

i was say looking at what statements i can find the charges are in the region of about £3500 and i think thats underestimating.

 

ive just opend an online account with Norwich and peterborough i hope this bank is ok

[Perseus]

Hey fr33jack

 

Thank the mighty zeus for that! Phew....

 

Ok - so from £1750 overdraft - add £3500 + potential for contractual interest = nah nah ne nah nah

 

Whichever bank you have - as long as it has the facilities you need - then pretty much any one will do at the moment.

 

Again, without prying too much, do you have an agreement to reduce your o/d, or are you 'living' on it?

 

As long as you pay a reasonable amount in regularly (or as Lula suggested-come to some arrangement) - and the account is confirmed as being in dispute - I would doubt they'll be silly enough to close it (ie demand repayment of your overdraft immediately).

Alliance and Leicester were ruled against by a County Court for retaliatory closure - this should have sent a warning to other banks - it was well publicised.

 

They will be using scare tactics - maybe threats of a default or debt collector. When you put this account clearly in dispute over penalty charges unlawfully applied - they should not progress with any of these tactics. In reality they probably still will - take a chance that you'll back down. So it's important to get a letter off to them staright away.

 

If you would like a suggestion of a letter to send them, maybe you could reply back with answers to some of the questions in the last couple of posts- I'm sure between us we'll come up with something for you.

 

Regards

Perseus

[fr33jack]

well to put it in a few words im skint with 3 children under 4. i work my wife dos not the reason im living on my overdraft is due to them charging so bloody much, they have also been taking charges out of working family tax credit which is a benefit, i read another thread the other day about that being a misapropation of state benefits or something like that, do you think its worth using that to my advantage aswell?

[Perseus]

Yes fr33jack I do - bear with me, I'll look into that one in the morning.

 

I'll post a suggested letter for you to use too!

 

P

[Perseus]

Fr33jack - i've got a corker of a reply for you. too late tonight, but rest assured, it'll get you on the road to recovery.

 

Till the morning

 

Perseus.

[mariejader]

recieved this letter this morning from scABBEY.

 

dear mr *******

 

weve noticed that the way you run your account has changed recently and wondered if we can help?

 

were happy to discuss any concerns you have, or run through your options if youve had a change in circumstances. just give us a call on the above phone number or visit your local branch.

 

IF THINGS STAY THE SAME, WE WILL HAVE TO WITHDRAW YOUR OVERDRAFT. OF COURSE, IF THIS IS NECESSARY, WELL LET YOU KNOW IN ADVANCE.

 

FROM Cathy Robertson

Head of customer service banking

 

 

is this coinsidence or scare tactics

 

You post regarding this is the third one I have seen on here so I guess it's another standard letter

[Perseus]

Banking Code Website

 

THE IMPORTANT PART IS IN RED BELOW:

 

http://www.bankingcode.org.uk/press/findiffs070103.htm

 

"The Banking Code has always required such customers to be treated ‘sympathetically and positively’. However, recent guidance now sets out in detail how these words should be interpreted and ensures that customers in financial difficulties get better treatment from their banks and building societies.

 

The guidance recognises the need to draw up a repayment plan which identifies ‘priority debts’ for the essentials of living and to ensure that the customer is left ‘with sufficient money for reasonable day to day expenses’.

 

Banks have to provide customers with straightforward information in plain English and ensure an account is passed promptly to a specialist team. Other improvements are listed in the Notes to Editors below.

 

Seymour Fortescue, Chief Executive of the BCSB said:

 

“Consumer debt is an increasing concern, particularly in the post-Christmas period. This additional guidance, which has been developed in conjunction with the banking industry, will ensure that the Banking Code provides enhanced protection for consumers who may be struggling to manage their finances.”

 

8 JANUARY 2003

 

Full copies of the guidance can be found on Banking Code Standards Board

What the Guidance Says:

• Financially difficulty defined as “when income is insufficient to cover reasonable living expenses and meet financial commitments as they become due”

• Banks must give “straightforward information in plain English”

• The Code must apply to any agents, such as debt collectors

• Subscribers must explore a range of options and pass an account promptly to a specialist team

 

• ‘Priority’ debts take precedence over ‘non-priority’ debts. The former are defined as those “where the customer’s failure to pay could lead directly to the loss of one or more of the following – the customer’s home (e.g. rent, mortgage, secured loans), their liberty (e.g. council tax, child support, maintenance, income tax, court fines), their utility supplies (e.g. water, gas, electricity) or their essential goods or services (e.g. cooker, fridge or means to travel to work)

• Banks should accept offers based on equitable distribution of available income

• Any repayment plan must “leave the customer with sufficient money for reasonable day-to-day expenses”

• Banks must not “subject customers to harassment or undue pressure when discussing their problems”

• Token offers accepted “where the customer has demonstrated they have no surplus income available for their non-priority creditors and there is a realistic prospect of the customer’s circumstances improving.”

• Penalty interest rates and charges. Banks “may consider agreeing with their customers in financial difficulty appropriate concessions, relating to charges and interest payable.”

• The bank “may, among other options, consider writing off or not pursuing part of all of the customer’s debts.” They must give their reasons in writing in requested.

• The bank must “seek to revise contributions only at the end of the review period or if a customer’s personal circumstances change”

• Banks must say where customers can get free money advice.

• Banks must use where possible the MAT/BBA common financial statement

 

Customers and their advisors also have responsibilities. Customers must:

• Help themselves: dialogue and disclosure

• Co-operate with banks in developing a plan

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

All the above are quoted from research that add-enuff found in response to another thread here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/34765-charges-made-me-o.html? makes good reading!

Then to argue the Abbey microfiche point, this thread/post by alanfromderby (very good advisor) can be used. You just need to read it through - adjust/change dates and any wording to make it relevant to your case. It's here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/2440-abbey-data-protection-act.html?#post24817

In the 3rd paragraph - it says 'Your filing system was recently inspected by the OFT' - change that to read it was inspected last year by the OFT.

Just a suggestion - once you have your letters typed up - maybe you could post it here first - or pm me if you like, and we can give it the once-over.

All the best

Hope this helps.

Perseus

[Perseus]

There's also this thread - very good and states chapter and verse about appropriation (confirms that they cannot touch your benefits or money used to live on as essential expenses) http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/36790-bank-taking-your-benefits.html#post289030

 

I know there's a lot of reading up - but there's so much in these posts that is relevant - definitely worth using the advice there.

 

Hope this helps - and thanks for the click.

 

Perseus

[fr33jack]

thanks for that, so in a nut shell if they send me a letter next week saying sorry we taking your overdraft of you in 2 weeks time pleae make sure there are sufficent funds in your account i can tell them they cant do that and make an arrangement to pay it off weekly.

 

ill draft a letter and get the ball rolling myself so it looks good to the judge if it ever gets to that stage.

 

thanks again Perseus

[Perseus]

You may be in a stronger position if you suggest a repayment plan to pay off the o/d asap! That way, if they do threaten to foreclose, and the case goes to court - you've made a reasonable attempt to resolve matters. It would show Abbey to be unreasonable which is treading on principle breaches of the Banking Code (Hence decision against Alliance and Leicester for retaliatory account closure!)

 

All the best

P

[fr33jack]

Right been fishing around the house and ive found the last 14 bank statements and have calculated that they have charged me £1500 in this period should i take the next step and ask them for my charges back with an estimated amount, now i know that i should times that amount by 6, but i know i never got any charges for about 3 of the 6 years. So if i should do the next stage with an estimate, should i times that by 6 or 3 and just say that i reerve the right to alter thsi amount when the statements arrive?

[fr33jack]

Bump

[Mad Nick]

fr33jack, not sure why you're talking about estimating charges - aren't you waiting for Abbey to send you the statements/microfiche ? From what I can gather from threads where people have tried estimating, it usually ends in problems. I strongly suggest just waiting for the actual Abbey data.

 

On the overdraft issue, FWIW they threatened by letter to reduce/withdraw my overdraft after my LBA. But I don't think it was it was retaliation - it was because I had opened a parachute account and transferred all the DD/SOs and the regular payment in, and their debt department computer must just have picked up the lack of a regular payment in. So I restarted one (about 2.5% per month of the overdraft limit - I just plucked the number out the air) and sent a letter to the debt department telling them that the account was in dispute and who in the great Abbey monolith was dealing with my claim. I didn't discuss how much the regular payment would be, and I didn't even tell them how much, I just did it. They didn't reply and I've heard no more. So, agree with previous posters - open a parachute account asap but leave a regular amount going into the Abbey one, and write to them confirming that there's a regular amount. PM me if you want a copy of what I sent them. Regards, Mad Nick

PS And if you're strapped, there doesn't seem to be anything to stop you then drawing on the regular payment you make into the account.

[fr33jack]

thanks for that nick i have actually opened a new account just waiting for the stuff to come through its with norwich and peterborough building society.

 

as for estimating ill take your advice and sit tight and wait for the statements to come through the post (abbey has already taken the £10 payment from my account).

[fr33jack]

Ive just got more charges on sunday i asked scabbey to refund them the nice lady on the phone said and i quote "not a chance sir your account is in a terrible state and there is a note on it to say you are disputing something on your account"

 

who the hell dos she think she is she is nothing but a phone jockey. after she said no i asked to speak to someone else who could help, and she hung up on me. RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i was so mad i rang back and the new nice lady said and i quote "sorry sir you must be mistaken no one has logged into your account for 2 weeks so im sorry theres no one to complain about (my f'ing arse they didnt log in).

 

this new lady also said there is nothing they can do as they reversed a charge in january and there only allowed to do it once a year (what a crock of scabby horse poo.

 

any one have any ideas because i smell a (i cant be arsed doing bugger all for you you moaning customer) rat.

[fr33jack]

can anyone help me with this or give me some advise?