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well good news, got letter today from lowell's, its as follows

 

dear mr ******

 

our ref; *******

original creditor; capital one

balance outstanding £791

 

following your recent request to be provided with a copy of the original credit agreement in respect of the consumer credit act.

after liaising with our cllient in an effort to obtain this document we have been advised that it is no longer available. under the circumstances, we have closed our flies in relation to this account which has now been returned to our client. we can confirm that no further contact will be made by us regarding this account.

 

we trust that the above clarifies matters for you,

 

yours sincerely

 

andrew bartie

cheif opertions officer.

 

So all we have to do now it wait for ackiv/thames to start with the threatening letters which am sure they will and do the same thing all over again, and if the agreement is no longer available theres little hope for them is there.

 

WELL DONE!!!

 

Report them to TS's!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/59620-diskmandave-lowell-finacial-capone.html

 

You're winning this!

 

Regards, Dave.

 

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Hello Lensue apologies for not getting in touch earlier,Thames credit/Aktiv kapital are now way over the 30 days and are still contacting me to pay them ,using all sorts of threats if i dont :)

 

At the moment they dont stand a chance,and after paying these for years aint getting another penny from me,i will just wait it out and perversely want them to take me to court so i can wipe the floor with them :)

 

At the moment its a war of nerves,they are paper tigers so cant hurt you.

 

The thing is i did contact the original creditor who stated ( i have a written letter confirming this) that no agreements are in existance as this goes back to 2000 ,this due to the original creditor not keeping records beyond 6 years :) my SAR was returned with fee uncashed .

 

Thames stated the account was assigned no evidence this is true.

 

So i knew before i sent my quid to thames that the agreement wasnt available :)

 

Keep up your spirits dont let them bully you

 

regards S

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thanks storm, that makes me feel a lot better. Just been fighting lowell and they sent letter saying original creditor says agreement is no longer available so think i will just wait until they send me the threatening letters and do the same to them (send cca) although am tempted just to ignore them completly. will keep you updated

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  • 4 weeks later...

hi all well thames credit limited are at it again heard nothing since 19th april then this letter turns up today.

 

dear sir,

re agreement number ************* first national tricity finance

 

we write to advise you that aktiv kapital group of compainies has bought the interest of first national tricity finance in the debt that you owe them under the above agreement.

 

we are acting as collection agent on behalf of atkiv kapital group of companies which is now the legal owner of the outstanding balance on your account.

 

our records show the total balance outstanding, inclusive of all accrued interest, amounts to £*****

 

you should not send any further payments (never sent any ever) to first national tricity finance and if you have a direct debit or standing order arrangement of first national tricity fianance that should be cancelled.

 

all future payments should be sent to this company at the address shown. cheques must be made payable to Thames Credit limited. if for any reason you are unable to pay the full balance immediately, you should contact us as soon as possible to discuss payment arragements.

 

we look forward to receiving your prompt payment. if you wish to speak to us, our telephone number is clearly shown on this letter

 

yours faithfully

 

 

so got cca letter with £1 ready for sending off tomorrow and let the fun begin again.

 

how you getting on red? hope things are going well for you.

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I don't know that I would waste £1 on them - I would just point out that you previously requested a copy of the credit agreement. This has never been supplied. Please could you confirm for me that this is an absolute deed of assignment and as such all rights and responsibilities (including providing an enforceable copy of the credit agreement) have been assigned to you. If this is not the case then, as an equitable deed of assignment, my request to the original creditor still stands.

 

Please be advised that in either case this debt is unenforceable until a copy of the credit agreement is supplied to myself.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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have never contacted them before rory (last fight was with lowells which we won) just had the two letters from these losers first letter stated that they had been attempting to contact him (my husband) at a previous address held without success, that would be hard seeing as untill last year he hasnt been on the eletrol roll for about ten years since his marrage broke down he lived with friends and the last 2 years before i met him, he was living in the garage he rented for work so what address they held i dont know. then the last letter we recieved was the letter i posted above. Husband thinks its coming up to 6 years in maybe june or july this year. So thought if i cca them by the time they come up with anything if they do at all then the 6 years will be up anyway.

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Okay, sounds fine.

 

All I was pointing out was that you don't have to CCA them as

(a) they either own all the rights and responsibilities of the debt (so as the new owner it is them who are currently in default of supplying the agreement) or

(b) they do not own the rights and responsibilities of the debt (this is a partial assignment(in which case it is the OC who are still in default and the new "owner" has no power to act without the authorisation of the OC. As the OC is in default they can not lawfully authorise the new owner to act on this debt)).

 

Scenario (b) is by far the more likely.

 

For your information (in case you evr need it)

 

32.2.4. Assignment of debts

Assignment is a process whereby debts are sold on to another organisation, and is common practice within the industry.

For an assignment of a debt to be legally effective, it is necessary to assign both the rights and the responsibilities of the creditor under the agreement.

Partial assignment which, in effect, assigns the right to enforce but not the associated responsibilities will be invalid and will preclude the assignee from enforcing the debt.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Hi lensue, I see that your story continues, and looks as though the excellent Rory is giving you some sound advise.

I went away for a short while, things have been getting on top of me lately, so sorry for not being around.

At court on Weds re hubby's bankruptcy...aggghhhh!

hope fully will be back up and running on all cylinders soon.

Sounds as though you are on the right track though!

Still thinking of you!!

Red x

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hi red, sorry to hear you been feeling down. it was the big day for you today hope everything went ok. I just not replying to em yet untill they start threatening me, cant be bothered lol. thinking of you and all fingers crossed for you. sue

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Hi Sue, thanks for the message. All went smoothly my end, and now a new chapter begins!

It sounds as though Sue, the process which you have been through and still going through with the DCA's is absolutely correct and it does not sound as though they have a leg to stand on. My thoughts regarding contacting the DCAs when they do not comply with the requests is split. Part of me agrees with you, why bother contacting them when they are acting incorrectly.

 

However a while ago I read a thread which made me reconsider. Apologies I cannot remember the post title, but a court case reagrding a charging order over a property by a DCA who did not provide the CCA went in the favour of the DCA, and I wonder if the outcome would have differed if the defendant had continued to correspond to the DCAs when they didn't compy with the requests and then produced the letters to the court.

So far, I have continued to correspond (in writing only) with DCAs if they hassle me, just in case I should find myself in court defending my self!

If you need any copies of letters which I have sent then i can send to you if you want.

Thanks for the support Sue, hope your case continues to be so strong!

Red

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If you do ever find yourself in court you should use s127(3) of the CCA 1974 as part of your defence (this falls under the judicial control part of the Act).

 

PART IX

JUDICIAL CONTROL

s127 (3)

The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

If you're having trouble understanding this just take away the bits in brackets.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Rory, that is fantastic (with or without the brackets LOL), if I am ever that unfortunate to end up in court I will bear this in mind (and will probably PM you!!)

 

Rory, is the wording specific for a charging order case in court out of interest? Or just a general defense against a DCA attempting to enforce a debt for which they have failed to comply with the CCA 1974?

 

Thanks Red

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It's not specific for a charging order, it's just a general defence against a DCA. In order to defend a charging order I think you would also have to argue that there is no absolute deed of assignment as well and claim as a result the litigation is vexatious.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Rory thank-you for the clarification about the defense wording. Is it beneficial when responding via the courts to use the correct vocabulary. I understand that quoting relevant laws is an advantage, however I find the gap between general communication in layman terms against court-talk on a scale comparative to the Grand Canyon!

Thank you Red

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however I find the gap between general communication in layman terms against court-talk on a scale comparative to the Grand Canyon!

 

Hah you have it easy. In Scots law we use latin.

 

In answer to your question though, the court treats you as a layperson and as such will not expect you to always use the correct terms (or know the correct terms). The court has a legal obligation to ensure that a layperson is not disadvantaged.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Meus iucunditas

bonus nox noctis Red

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Meus iucunditas = my pleasure

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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  • 4 weeks later...

32.2.4. Assignment of debts

 

Assignment is a process whereby debts are sold on to another organisation, and is common practice within the industry.

 

For an assignment of a debt to be legally effective, it is necessary to assign both the rights and the responsibilities of the creditor under the agreement.

 

Partial assignment which, in effect, assigns the right to enforce but not the associated responsibilities will be invalid and will preclude the assignee from enforcing the debt.

 

Is this paragraph from the CCA1974?

 

I'm in the process of using this clause in a response to a reply from Thames stating that they were not the original creditor & did not provide the original credit facility. They confirmed that they purchased the outstanding balance & the "right" to collect but did not purchase the actual agreement. Consequently, they stated, they have no obligation to provide a copy of the agreement...

 

Post hijacking over :rolleyes:

RBS Tesco card ~ CCA halted 1st Credit in their tracks :D Halifax bank ~ claimed £900 charges, threatened with LBA & got a refund :grin: :mad: Abbey ~ reclaiming bank charges & clearing default. 6 months later & getting letters from Abbey apologising for the delay. They've even invited me to complain to the F.O.S so I did...... 4 times ;)

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No, it's not from the CCA1974, it's from a memo. DCA's often use The Law of Property Act 1925 s136 to try and substantiate their deed of assignment. So you may want to quote this back to them.

 

Law of Property Act 1925 s136

Legal assignments of things in action.- (1) Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor (not purporting to be by way of charge only) of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim such debt or thing in action, is effectual in law (subject to equities having priority over the right of the assignee) to pass and transfer from the date of such notice-

(a)
the legal right to such debt or thing in action;

(b)
all legal and other remedies for the same; and

©
the power to give a good discharge for the same without the concurrence of the assignor:

Provided that, if the debtor, trustee or other person liable in respect of such debt or thing in action has notice-

(a)
that the assignment is disputed by the assignor or any person claiming under him; or

(b)
of any other opposing or conflicting claims to such debt or thing in action;

he may, if he thinks fit, either call upon the persons making claim thereto to interplead concerning the same, or pay the debt or other thing in action into court under the provisions of the Trustee Act, 1925.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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