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      Hello,

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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

Court hierarchy

Russe11

By Russe11
in Historic Bank Claims

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BankFodder

BankFodder

Posted
Posted

I don't know what you mean by saying that you want to get it at "a worthwhile level"

 

You have to go to the County Court.

 

You could go to the High Court but it is very expensive, more difficult in terms of procedure and if you lose you will suffer a serious costs penalty.

 

You go to the County Court, claim for less than £5000 and there is almost no risk of having to pay costs even if you lose - as long as the judge doesn't think that your claim is so ridiculous that it is abusive of the process or deliberately wasteful of the courts and the defendants time.

 

I am going to suggest very strongly that you read up a little on what you are proposing to do.

Google "Small Claims County Court UK" and see what what comes up.

Although it is quite easy, you do need to have some of the basics under your belt so that you don't make a fool of yourself.

Don't forget that the Bank's reacton to you will depend a great deal on whether they think yo know what you are doing.

 

This forum can help you to a certan extent but you must go and help yourself as well. This is a support forum - not a "Do-it-for-you" forum.

I hope that yo don't think that this is too harsh.

Remember that if the bank decides to go into court with you, then you will be on your own.

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Russe11

Russe11

Posted
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Posted

It was more to a point of interest as well as the fundementals.

 

I have built up a reasonable understanding of the system.

 

The banks choices are to defend or not, but also I belive they are entitled to launch a counter claim if they so wish. Can the bank only do this at County Court level, or are they able to do more ?

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BankFodder

BankFodder

Posted
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They can launch a counter claim. If they launched it for a very large amount of money then the case could be transferred to the High Court.

I doubt whether you are involved with that kind of sum. - at least four x zeros - several times.

 

If the bank made a counterclaim then this would be very exciting because they would be indicating that they are going to go to court and submit to jusidical scrutiny of their penalty charge system.

They wouldn't be able to go to court merely on the question of the counterclaim and not have the principle issues which you have raised dealt with as well.

 

It is nearly inconceivable that the bank would want to go this way and if they did it would to my mind mean that they had been poorly advised by someone who did not appreciate what was at stake or else they were suprmemely confident that they could win the penalty charge issue.

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Russe11

Russe11

Posted
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Exactly, they need to be lured in......lol (not suggesting anyone trys anything by not following the correct procedure - just a joke)

 

My bankmanger obv does not have a head for figures, I quote from my meeting...

 

"£1163 that is a lot of money, and interest !" ...."This is a considerable sum you are asking for" he remarked as reading my letter in front of me.

 

in my head "for a bank that is heading for nearly 10 billion year profits"

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BankFodder

BankFodder

Posted
Posted

Done! 8)

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  • 1 month later...
bmooney

bmooney

Posted
Posted

I am considering a claim against Lloyds TSB for approx £3000 in unpaid excess fees etc. If, after submitting the letter, the bank doesn't cough up and I start the claim through the county court small claims track, they defend, I understand it is the Judge who would decide if it needs to be heard in the small claims or higher court. If he decides a higher court and the bank wins, I would be liable for costs.

 

If, assuming it got this far, the judge descides it should be heard in a higher court, could I drop the case then? - I am a little scared about the potential damaging effect of paying their costs - just trying to protect myself!

 

Can anyone confirm my understanding of the situation. I know this is highly unlikely but I want to cover every angle.

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bmooney

bmooney

Posted
Posted

I am considering a claim against Lloyds TSB for approx £3000 in unpaid excess fees etc. If, after submitting the letter, the bank doesn't cough up and I start the claim through the county court small claims track, they defend, I understand it is the Judge who would decide if it needs to be heard in the small claims or higher court. If he decides a higher court and the bank wins, I would be liable for costs.

 

If, assuming it got this far, the judge descides it should be heard in a higher court, could I drop the case then? - I am a little scared about the potential damaging effect of paying their costs - just trying to protect myself!

 

Can anyone confirm my understanding of the situation. I know this is highly unlikely but I want to cover every angle.

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BankFodder

BankFodder

Posted
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If your claim is for less than £5000 then unless it is especially complex with a lot of witnesses etc then it will be allocated to the Small Claim Track. No costs unless you conduct your litigation very irresponsibly.

If it is £5000 - £10000 or compaex it goes to the Fast track. Limited costs.

 

After that Multi-track - full costs

Get yourself a bood on small calims in the County court. Visist your court for a booklet and go to a decent bookshop.

Don't get anything more than 150 pages - max

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BankFodder

BankFodder

Posted
Posted

If your claim is for less than £5000 then unless it is especially complex with a lot of witnesses etc then it will be allocated to the Small Claim Track. No costs unless you conduct your litigation very irresponsibly.

If it is £5000 - £10000 or compaex it goes to the Fast track. Limited costs.

 

After that Multi-track - full costs

Get yourself a bood on small calims in the County court. Visist your court for a booklet and go to a decent bookshop.

Don't get anything more than 150 pages - max

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BankFodder

BankFodder

Posted
Posted

True

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BankFodder

BankFodder

Posted
Posted

True

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  • 13 years later...
Russe11

Russe11

Posted
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Posted

This topic was closed on 03/05/19.

If you have a problem which is similar to the issues raised in this topic, then please start a new thread and you will get help and support their.

If you would like to post up some information which is relevant to this particular topic then please flag the issue up to the site team and the thread will be reopened.

- Consumer Action Group

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at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

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Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

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