Penalties for not paying by direct debit

[maybelline]

i like your logic! lol

 

can I assume your mother does exist? if so then no doubt some expense and effort is incurred passing these funds around, however, if it is just some ink on a page and the same people sitting at the same desks or same electronic signal is sending the funds to their account then how is costing them £4.50 or £10 or whatever?

[23sopwith]

bt will cut you off

i paid bill less charges

stopped outgoing calls

[buzby]

They're all doing this - also this incurs a late payment charge too...

[arae1]

The report said "Last March, Trading Standards described the charges as "outrageous" and "unjustified" but BT said it cost more to process non-direct debit payments and that those customers were also more likely to forget to pay."

I pay my bill, in cash, on time. But I have to pay this extra charge incase Joe Bloggs down the road pays late?? And the judge accepted this?

 

Why should I be penalised because other customers may pay late? I understand they are then subject to yet another fee, but you get my drift...

[buzby]

You're not! (Being penalised for not paying late) as these people are hit with a late payment fee.

[goodwill]

slightly off topic but contains an interesting remark

Broadband prices could soar as BT fights to charge higher line rental fees

16/04/2008

 

BT is currently tied to Ofcom’s Universal Service Obligation, which concerns "access" and "inclusion". Ofcom’s USO requires that BT make telephone line rental cheap and affordable for low income customers, and the abolishment of non-direct debit bill payment charges.

I am aware of the USO but must admit have never read it.

[buzby]

I have - but the BT 'special' services like the 'Low User Rental Rebate' and ' Supportline' are all available and have never added additional fees for late payment or payment choice.

 

The BT price soaring is a red herring, as the USO does not include BB (never has) and those with the aforementioned discounted lines will find they are actually not allowed BB from BT or any other supplier (unless they have cable access).

 

BTs 21CN initiative is going to be the testing ground, as they have told OFCOM that the USO does not apply to this, and there is no way they are going to have their 21CN forced oin them as a USO, only to have to open it up to competitors, and in a way I agree with them.

[Mark_Blackpool]

How do we get onto the "light user" or the "stay in touch" schemes - I've searched the BT site, but apart from a throwaway line about their existence I can't track down any more about them.

[un1boy]

A woman took BT to court over the not paying by direct debit and lost - apparently, BT could prove that it costs them £4.50 (or what ever it is) to process payments

[morteee]

it was a bit more complicated than that and tbh BT didnt have to prove anything as she went about it the wrong way!

[Mark_Blackpool]

OK, so here's the Ofcom report detail:

 

"

Where non-direct debit charges are not obvious (and

so not part of the headline price) charges can be

assessed for fairness. This would mean that only direct

costs can be included. We do not consider this can include

additional costs relating to bad debt.

Where non-direct debit charges are obvious (and so

are part of the headline price)

it is competition, not regulation, which should

determine the level of the charges and ensure that they

are fair."

 

What a farce. How about "the price quoted is the price you pay" so that *all* headline pricing is available to everyone, which of course still offers the company the possibility of offering a discount for a specific payment method. But no, that would be waaaay too simple, and it would allow customers to easily compare prices.

 

So, Ofcom says the charges have to be fair and reflective.

 

Does that actually *mean* anything, or are Ofcom just a bunch of casual observers who produce reports?

[un1boy]

it was a bit more complicated than that and tbh BT didnt have to prove anything as she went about it the wrong way!

 

 

Oh, I see, really?? Hmm....well then, maybe we should try and do it the right way? Give me a PM to discuss if you like?

[meagain]

I've had an offer (need your help now!), and you are welcome to review my original PoC, though it would be fair to note that there were late fees included meaning the claim as a whole was more likely to succeed.

[buzby]

How do we get onto the "light user" or the "stay in touch" schemes - I've searched the BT site, but apart from a throwaway line about their existence I can't track down any more about them.

 

I believe (could be wrong though) that these schemes are no longer available to new customers since the arrival of 'BT Basic', which is their new 'social responsibility' tariff....

[buzby]

Finally got a response from the Irish Consumer Council over the outlawing of charging dissimilar amounts depending on the payment method used. As noted earlier, and on their website;

 

Credit card surcharges to be outlawed

 

this was to be outlawed from 1st May last year as part of the Consumer Protection Bill (2007). The Agency tells me that due to representations from commercial interests, this section of the Bill was dropped pending a formal consultation from all interested parties. This has NOT as yet taken place, and as such now remains with the country's government department for these issues. (Department of Enterprise Trade & Employment). I've put a call in to see what the status is - and whether this wan be retro-fitted to the existing Act, or required a new Bill - effectively starting from scratch.

 

UPDATE:

 

DETE - Minister Martin seek views on proposal to prohibit ‘credit card payment surcharges’

 

and the consultation;

 

http://www.entemp.ie/publications/commerce/2007/consultationpaper48&49Aug07.pdf

[ASIIndustries]

Does anyone know which bank BT banks with?

[buzby]

They do have a few - their Durham centre processes payments through that Hong Kong & Shanghai outfit...

[ASIIndustries]

Hi Raymond, so thats Hong kong & Shanghai Banking Corporation (HSBC)!?

[morteee]

my payment gets sent to sort code 20-00-00 which according to List of sort codes of the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is barclays

[ASIIndustries]

Barclays, even better, did you know that it costs BT & Virgin Media 15p (at standard corporate fees) to receive each and every automated transaction including Direct Debits, Transcash, BACS, CHAPS!

 

However those standard corporate fees could be negotiated right down to zero with the turnover that either BT or Virgin Media have.

 

Go to Barclays main site, click commercial +20m: click Trade & cash solutions, scroll to bottom of page, second last item on left hand side is Our Charges click on that, then download the Barclays Business tariff.pdf.

 

This is only part of the research that has been ongoing for the last year or so.

[vengeancedemon]

In the content of an email I sent BT about several things, I maentioned the penalty charges for non DD payment, the actual response was

(quote)

"With regard tp paying with the BT Card, the only charge would be the Direct Debit Charge as you will not be paying by Direct Debit. As BT payment method is by Direct Debit, if you do not pay the full amount on time then you will be charged|Direct Debit Penalty Charge and the non payment penalty charge"

 

So there we are, I make no apologies for the grammar, but its official , BT do regard the charge made for NOT paying by direct debit as a penalty

 

So if your account was in credit at a bill time, and the amount covered this bill you would be charged £4.50 Sounds like theft to me !

[Mark_Blackpool]

Barclays, even better, did you know that it costs BT & Virgin Media 15p (at standard corporate fees) to receive each and every automated transaction including Direct Debits, Transcash, BACS, CHAPS!

 

However those standard corporate fees could be negotiated right down to zero with the turnover that either BT or Virgin Media have.

 

Go to Barclays main site, click commercial +20m: click Trade & cash solutions, scroll to bottom of page, second last item on left hand side is Our Charges click on that, then download the Barclays Business tariff.pdf.

 

This is only part of the research that has been ongoing for the last year or so.

 

I doubt the fee would go down to zero. But then I doubt the fee is actually much more than 0.01 per transaction thanks to turnover.

 

Actually it seems that the penalty charge for non-DD payment is £12 per quarter. It works this way:

 

Day 1 - bill arrives, dated 7 days ago

Day 3 - payment due date

Day 6 - late payment reminder letter

Day 10 - £7.50 late payment fee

 

This quarter we paid within 2 weeks of receipt of the bill (it's logistically almost impossible for a BACS payment to get there by the due date, even if paid immediately on receipt) and got the "we're adding the late charge" letter, which of course we won't be paying.

 

We're sorting out a new line now and just waiting for BT to terminate the contract themselves by cutting us off.

[AnimalMagic]

I received my bill on Friday, the deadline was Saturday. Apparently took two weeks to arrive...

 

Perhaps it would be worthwhile setting up a new thread for people to post the date of the bill, and when it actually arrived, so we can see how widespread this is...?

[ASIIndustries]

Virgin Media Billing - The Consumer Forums

My TW / VM billing history.

 

BACS Consumer / business Direct Debit FAQs

The true facts about D.D.

 

Barclays Business Banking : Our Charges

 

RBS | Business Current Account

Note the Free automated tariff (basically an internet based account).

 

As for the mail that is late i have done quite a bit of research already and know possibly what is happening, but i am not yet ready to break the story as i still need to confirm a few basic facts.

 

AnimalMagic, remember that you have 7 Bank Days starting from the day after you receive your bill if paying by other means and 10 BD for D.D, also have a look at BT's T&C's about defining the date you must pay by, RBS it means "payment will be backdated to the day you paid it", HBOS it means "payment must be paid at least 3 BD before the due date"!

 

Mark_Blackpool, spare a thought for us poor VM users at £5 per month regardless and when we get a red invoice it automatically adds a £10 late fee, at least for me the late fee is unenforceable as i pay 1 month in advance at their standard terms.

[buzby]

The late fee may be unenforceable, but giving them an ongoing monthly paymenty in advance of the due date helps their overdraft, not yours. Ass to this the £5pm non DD fee that this doesn't stop, makes this of limited use.