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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 160 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Credit AGREEMENT -or- APPLICATION? RBS Advantage Card


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The rate of interest should be shown. I am not sure how important this is but it looks like they've put APR instead of Interest, which is probably good for you. PM PeterBard and ask him to have a look at it for you he will give you a definite answer.

 

good luck.

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Thanks so much Surprise, OH has looked again and now thinks you are right - he hopes anyway - have done as you suggested re Peter, hopefully got it right this time, couldn't believe what I'd done at first and then couldn't edit it, got there in the end, a little frayed around the edges!!

 

Kenny what have you done about your own agreement? Have you managed to keep the wolves at bay - we have Robberscum ringing us all hours of the day re:2 other accounts, have written telling them BOS had no right passing the alleged debt over - harassment letter next and complaint to TS,Thx so much both for helping us out:D

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  • 1 month later...

Can anyone advise on the following - I took out a loan for 13k. The money was cleared to my bank on the 9th november. At the start of december i was advised that £189 of interest was being added to the initial loan amount. I queried why this was not covered in the payments and why it was adding to my debt. i have been advised that as there is 28 day cancellation period they can clear the money and charge interet but they cannot take payment. Conveniently this first payment date for the loan fell within the 28 day period. So my loan got bigger before i even started paying it. Now technically i have repayments that don't actually cover the amount borrowed??? any advice??

14/8/06 - S.A.R Request to B.O.S for C.Account + 2 C. Cards Statments. Sent to HBOS, The Mound, Edinburgh (R.Delivery)

18/09/06 - S.A.R. Request Reminder Letter sent to HBOS, The Mound, Edinburgh. Local Branch C.C. (R.Ddelivery)

19/09/06 - 01/10/06 - Requested Information Received - Various Packages and Letters

11/10/06 - Prelim Letter Posted to HBOS, The Mound, Edinburgh. Local Branch C.C. (R.Ddelivery)

 

18/10/06 - Letter Received from HBOS as follows "your complaint will be passed to a Customer Services Manager....get back to you within 4 weeks"

01/04/07 Full Charges Received. Small Claims case won as bank failed to lodge defence. They initially refused to pay up and it was only through contact with a Sheriff Officer that they done so.

Case Closed - Hurrah

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My hubby and I had a loan with Welcome, the form that we signed at their agents office was never signed in the box that states "signed on behalf of Welcome". Not only was it not signed it has never been dated either by either party. Does this sound right or enforceable?

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I've just found this thread and have a cca vs application problem. Mine is with Mint/RBS Advanta. I CCA'd the and received a copy of my application form (1998 ) with no APR, no credit limit or reference to it...basically the usual. But they did send a copy of the T & C's from around that time (no signatures or link to application form). As there is no reference to T & C's in the form they sent back - is this unenforceable?

I would post a copy, but I have no scanner at present, sorry...

 

Thanks

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I've just found this thread and have a cca vs application problem. Mine is with Mint/RBS Advanta. I CCA'd the and received a copy of my application form (1998 ) with no APR, no credit limit or reference to it...basically the usual. But they did send a copy of the T & C's from around that time (no signatures or link to application form). As there is no reference to T & C's in the form they sent back - is this unenforceable?

I would post a copy, but I have no scanner at present, sorry...

 

Thanks

 

A credit agreement, to be enforcable MUST contain all prescribed terms and be signed by the debtor. These are ther absolute minumum requirements for it to be enforcable. For this type of account the prescribed terms are Credit Limit, Rate of Interest (Not APR) and Repayments. If they are lacking then any court is precluded from making an enforcement order. Keep in mind though that statements saying 'we will review your credit limit' or 'your repayments will be determined in the following way' etc are acceptable so make sure there really is no mentioned of any of them on the application form. Lastly, t&c''s are irrelevant in this regard as these core terms cannot be in another document, they must be in the signature document.

 

regrards,

shane

____________________________________________

All advice is offered freely & without prejudice

 

 

If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

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OK, managed to get scanner, so this is what I have been sent for my CCA request...

 

Image of Mint Application - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/europa16/tandc1.jpg

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/europa16/tandc2.jpg

 

Hope the links work.

 

As I requested these in March this year, does that mean they have been in default all this time without my knowledge, if the docs don't comply?

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  • 6 months later...

Hi all, I've been sent court papers by link and could do with some advice, please have a look at my thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/77464-pudsters14-mbna-2.html

 

Thanks

 

Pudst

x x x x

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hi all ,

 

just been reading my way through this thread a judge has just told me that a agreement can be more than 1 page and if the perscribed terms are on page 2,3,4 etc it does not matter as this is part of the agreement i went a bit nuts at this and produced some case law about perscibed terms being within the four corners of the document any comments on this.?

 

regards

to all out of cash

Edited by out of cash
error
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  • 4 months later...
hi all ,

 

just been reading my way through this thread a judge has just told me that a agreement can be more than 1 page and if the perscribed terms are on page 2,3,4 etc it does not matter as this is part of the agreement i went a bit nuts at this and produced some case law about perscibed terms being within the four corners of the document any comments on this.?

 

regards

to all out of cash

bump

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hi all ,

 

just been reading my way through this thread a judge has just told me that a agreement can be more than 1 page and if the perscribed terms are on page 2,3,4 etc it does not matter as this is part of the agreement i went a bit nuts at this and produced some case law about perscibed terms being within the four corners of the document any comments on this.?

 

regards

to all out of cash

 

Hi I got the same thing but my judge did say that all pages of the agreement must be linked IE with a document number etc.

 

as in doc112-1 for page 1

doc112-2 for page 2

....

 

dpick

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  • 5 months later...

I have just received a copy of an application form after requesting under cca 1974, I took the card in approx 2003, My sig is there but not dated no M&S sig at all no rate of interest no credit limit no details of how to pay better still they sent me what they call Terms and conditions that belong to the account even though they are t&C for 2008 5 yrs after I took the agreement, they have stated they have examined the agreement and are happy. Well Im not they referred me to Financial ombudsman and gave me the telephone number so I called them told them the details. Guess what M&S have referred me incorrectly Ombudsman have taken the complaint, My message to M&S I may have used the account but that does not constitue and agreement. See you in court

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  • 1 month later...

Sorry to take this thread on a differant track but i really am desperate. My wife has received court summons for 833.90 from dca CL Finance Ltd received yesterday.

 

http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr229/micko19_bucket/hpscan076.jpg

 

http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr229/micko19_bucket/hpscan077.jpg

 

above should be links to the agreement.

 

 

Having read some of the stuff on here I quote

 

*************************************************************************************

 

I am concerned about some of the early comments made on this thread. An agreement is a specific document. Just because the credit industry wants to speed up it's processes by turning a single document into an application and an agreement does not make the former an agreement as well. Just because it states this is an agreement does not make it one either. I think there is something in S59 about pre-contract documents not being valid as an agreement.

Quote:

59 Agreement to enter future agreement void

(1) An agreement is void if, and to the extent that, it purports to bind a person to enter as debtor or hirer into a prospective regulated agreement.

(2) Regulations may exclude from the operation of subsection (1) agreements such as are described in the regulations.

I don't know if there are any later regulations that over-rides (1), perhaps some more learned member can clarify for us.

 

Many of the creditors I have challenged on this have yet to produce any useful regulation so I suspect not.

 

If they were however to successfully challenge I still don't think from the cursory look I have given that the document, if it were to be accepted as an agreement, is within the strict rules of CCA and later regulations. The OFT documents that sets out the regulations is a useful place to start

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...dit/oft018.pdf

I think they may have failed on the form and content of the document as described in the guidance. It is difficult to read on the posting so I am not sure. If the copy held is as unclear as this I would also throw in a challenge on the grounds that every copy must be easily legible just for good measure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If anyone gets to court with an improperly executed agreement that would fall into this 'discretion' category it is essential that they remind the judge that the CCA must be read and applied in favour of the debtor (a lot of county court judges have little/no experience of the CCA's complexities or the statutory intent).

 

 

Originally Posted by peterbard viewpost.gif

10. - (1) Schedule 1 (information to be contained in documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements other than modifying agreements) shall be amended as follows.

 

(2) For paragraph 1 substitute -

 

1.All types. " (1) Subject to paragraph (2) below, a heading in one of the following forms of words -

 

  • (a) "Hire-Purchase Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974";
     
    (b) "Conditional Sale Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974";
     
    © "Fixed-Sum Loan Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974"; or
     
    (d) "Credit Card Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974",

as the case may require.

 

(2) If none of the headings in 1(a) to (d) above are applicable a heading in the following form of words - "Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974".

 

If it doesn't it doesnt conform to whichever of the regs says correct form it is unenfrceable without.etc

 

Regards

Peter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(e) under the heading “Key Information”—

(i) the information set out in paragraphs 20 to 24 of Schedule 1 to these

Regulations; and

(ii) the statements of protection and remedies set out in Schedule 2 to these

Regulations; and

(f) the signature box and, where applicable, the separate box required by paragraph

(7)(b) below;

and such information, statements of protection and remedies, signature and separate boxes shall be shown together as a whole and shall not be preceded by any information apart from trade names, logos or the reference number of the agreement or interspersed with any other information or wording apart from subtotals of total amounts and cross references to the

terms of the agreement.

 

This is the latter one although the 1983 one is similar

 

Cheers

Peter

 

 

******************************************************************

 

 

 

I was hoping that some of the stuff above would apply and i could argue improper execution..Or irreedeemable, apparrently it is ok not to give a credit limit if you promise to send it later . I am on benefits at the moment unemployed. Also I think the fact that no details for the account protection policy signed for in the agreement is wrong.

 

 

The top main heading definitely implies application form

 

 

It states

CREDIT AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER credit act 1974

as peter above states it should read

CREDIT CARD AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER credit act 1974.

 

 

Could really use some advice should I use cpr stuff and try and get statements etc and more info

 

 

Yours desperate

bump bump bump

 

 

micko

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  • 3 months later...

Can a Credit Card Application containing Key Financial Information (interest rates etc, loss and theft of card and genral information about missing payments and default charges be said to be an Consumer Credit Agreement. It also says 'once you have signed this agreement, you will have a short time to cancel it. We will send you the exact details of how and when you can do this.'

There is no credit amount or credit limit. At the end it below my signature it says By signing this you authorise us when considering YOUR APPLICATION to gain additional relevant information, credit references, electoral role etc

My signature is on the application form, and a section where they initial they recieved my proof of ID, not actually signing the agreement.

 

It also has - we will tell you your credit limit when you first revieve your card.

 

My question is can an application for a credit card, be used as a enforcable CCA??

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  • 2 months later...

hi everyone,

Can an online application that has been 'electronically' signed become unenforceable? When I filled in an online application form for a couple of credit cards and mail order catalogues, my only 'signature' was the tick in the required box. I remember very clearly that I never physically signed anything. Could those agreements become unenforceable?.......if my only 'signature' is the tick in the box? I'm a bit confused and any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks guys

 

Suze

x

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  • 10 months later...
My question is can an application for a credit card, be used as a enforcable CCA??

 

Most certainly YES!!!

 

Provided of course it is correctly executed, ie has both yours and creditors signiature,it has the the line "This is a credit agreement regulated by ......." and it contains the prescribed terms.

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  • 2 years later...

Iam getting taken to court soon for a ccj for an old bike i had but i think i can win a just need someone to answer my two question one i signed the contract for my fianace at the time at my home address but on the contract it states that i signed it at the companies address which i never does this make it null or not void second question i had my bike for two years and i had a number of problems with it and it took the company a year to get me a new set of clocks then after that they stopped fixing it plz help me if you can many thanks in advance

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Iam getting taken to court soon for a ccj for an old bike i had but i think i can win a just need someone to answer my two question one i signed the contract for my fianace at the time at my home address but on the contract it states that i signed it at the companies address which i never does this make it null or not void second question i had my bike for two years and i had a number of problems with it and it took the company a year to get me a new set of clocks then after that they stopped fixing it plz help me if you can many thanks in advance

 

Hello there.

 

You have bumped a very old thread. Please consider starting a brand new one as you'll get a lot more help. If you're not sure on how to do this please do let us know.

 

Thanks and best wishes,

 

Seq.

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