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    • Morning all,   the pdf in my previous post is an error. Could soemeone delete it please as I don't seem to be able to myself. Thank you.   Correct files are below. Had to be 2 as file size limit would be exceeded.   What a night, got myself in a right muddle switching between file formats to ensure security. To cap it all it's my birthday today.   Thank you in anticipation final multi.pdf Second two page file elms 1 and 2.pdf
    • This is a draft of my WS   By no means final   Negatives:   doesnt follow smoothly    long winded   not much referene to cases except Beavis     I have tried to attach appendied but failed miserably, but I may not need them   The appendix are essentially:    IPC COP example of a contract between landowner and a PPC   IPC COP re entrance signages   IPC COD re sanctions on members who dont comply   JPEG of the erected signage showing that its back is to the entrance of the car park hence not in immediate view   JPEG of a receipt from 16.1.2021 ( yesterday) proving I went there and had a look at the signages     Not really sure if the appendices will make much difference en my defence   Please make any constructive comments etc..   I will have a look at the many links  FTM Dave kindly provided. I havent in detail because bene typing for the last 7 hours      Anyhow Thanks All             WS redacted-merged.pdf
    • Thanks DX 100   haha i totally  agree with your comment about the page 20    Yes I am awake and been all night w my WS   BUT can I point this very very very impt point please, which I am not sure if it has come to your attention   1. The payment machine and 6 hours and the free parking after 4.30 pm on a Saturday etc....all taken on board.   HOWEVER, and I cant stop myself laughing, this pay machine  he eludes to is based at The Market Shopping Centre Car park , after googling it is in CREWE.  It is not even relevant. They have put in a signage that is not even at the Merry Hill Centre which is in the West Midlands.    The Merry Hill Centre is the one I went to in Dudley, west midlands. All the signages , apart from the one you elude to have the intu Merry Hill logo     The one you refer to is in Crewe. I have never been to Crewe in my life lol so that signage is totally irrelevant    we can play this either way:   1. can take up your line of argument regarding the 6 hours etc. and pretned we are also using the pay machine    OR     2. totally dismiss it as being irrelevant, misleading , wasting the time of everyone by providing irrelevant info. Thats what I have argued in my WS so far. That signage does not belong to inTu Merry Hill            This is akin to someone being on annual leave from work between say 1.10 .2020 and 1.11.2020, and then finding out one of his/her collogues saying,  I saw you leaving work early last week , the 15th of October 2020.   hello !!!, I wasnt even in the country on the 15th of October 2020 !!   essentially thats what the claimant has done . The signage on page 20 doesnt even belong to the shopping centre I went to   I will log out and carry on with th WS     Thanks again       .   
    • Thank you FTMDave. As you can see from the time now I have had a nightmare getting questionnaire answered due to scanner problems, it is up there now though. I do not have proof of breakdown as the alternator was bought from a breakers yard near Chelmsford. I remember it well as they sold me the wrong one on the Saturday and I had to go back in my mechanic friends vehicle on Sunday as I had broken the original alternator getting it off.
    • 1 The date of infringement? 19/12/2019   2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] No. I did, unfortunately use the MyParkingCharge.co.uk portal to deny liability as the keeper and deny any contract. I mistakenly thought this was where I made a SAR. (I now see looking at the site again that it is actually. https://excel.zatappeal.com ) This was replied to as if it were an appeal.   if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]   has there been a response? yes please AS A PDFFILE  ONLY ..post it up as well, suitably redacted. - follow the upload guide]   If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........DONT ! seek advice on your topic first.   have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] Yes. Issue date indicates that if "contravention" date is day 1 then NTK was issued on day 15 so arrived well before day 29. Document received was PCN/NTK in one. (see pdf)   what date is on it Issue date is 02/01/2020   Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? Yes   [scan up BOTHSIDES to ONE PDF of the PCN and your NTK - follow the upload guide]   3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] NO   4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK, did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process? [it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] Suggested appeals could be made via IAS   5 Who is the parking company? VCS   6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Broke down on service road of Southend Airport, Southend-On-Sea   please do not put JPG Picture files into your post   .............................   For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]  (must be received within 14 days from the Incident)   please answer the following questions.   1 Date of the infringement 19/12/2019     2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 02/01/2020.   I recall noting, when it arrived on Saturday 16th Jan 2020 that this was more than 14 days from "offence" date.   [scan up BOTHSIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please do not put JPG Picture files into your post   3 Date received 16/01/20   4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No   5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes   6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Not as such. See this entry for PCN above.   Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up As above.   7 Who is the parking company? VCS   8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Broke down on service road of Southend Airport, Southend-On-Sea   For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. Initial appeal to be via www.myparkingcharge.co.uk then via IAS   There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure, please check HERE   If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here I have subsequently received a Demand for Payment dated 28/02/2020.  outstanding balance £160 Final Demand posted on 16/03/2020         outstanding balance £160 LBC dated 27/03/2020.                                 outstanding balance £160 with estimate of court fees £25 2nd LBC from ELMS legal dated 30/10/2020 listing estimated fees of   Principal debt £160                                                                                                                        Estimated interest £12                                                                                                   Estimated court / hearing fees £50                                                                                                          Estimated solicitors' costs £50                                                                                                                              Estimated total £272   windscreen or ANPR section to your thread and answer the questions... …….... in either case scan up bothsides of any letters/tickets in or appeals made out to ONE MULTIPAGE PDF ONLY please do not put JPG Picture files into your post   NTK plus .pdf
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 31 replies
    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies

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HI, got home last night to find letter from Jacobs. Re council tax. And yes i do owe for last years council tax. I split from my other half last year and found it difficult to keep up arrangement with council. So letter goes on to say that jacobs will only enter an arrangement to pay over time is made subjectnto out bailiff calling to your property and completing the relevant paperwork. This will incur stat fee. AND you making an immediate payment. and the debt secured against your goods and our bailiff visting you.

Advise please if anyone can and how to approach this. Not sure what to do. I do want to pay this and i know i have to. I am self employed and due to working in a golf club my income because of weather has been sporadic to say the least. But season startin now so can start paying again. Just worried about the bailiff thing

 

Thank you in advance

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dont let the bailiff in,dont sign anything,if they say they will only enter in to an agreement with you if you let them in to levy goods,say NO,absolutely do not let the bailiff gain entry,talk to him through an upstairs window if you wish,tell them what you can afford to pay,and if they dont accept it,send it to them recorded delivery to their office,so it shows willingness to pay,but under no circumstances allow them entry or let them trick or bully you into signing any paper work,once they've got a walking possesion,they're laughing all the way to the bank!!

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As above DONT let them in....I had dealings with jacobs and they are a bunch of *******. I'd entered into an arangement and was paying OK, then they started to increase payments which made it more dificult. I was late with one payment by a few days so sent them the cheque with another one for the next month. they returned the cheques and the wanted the whole lot at once! NO amount of negotiating would placate them . they wanted the money or theyd turn up with a van.

 

write or speak to the council or failing that send this letter to the bailiffs

 

Only offer to pay what you can reasonably afford to clear the debt as soon as you can. Dont leave yourself short or other bills wont get paid.

 

Dave

 

 

************

 

Your name and address

 

Bailiffs name and address

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Your Reference (insert ref here)

 

I understand (council name ) Council has appointed you to recover my Council Tax Liability arrears for (date/s) which are (£xxxx) Council Tax Liability.

 

Firstly I would like to make you aware that I am aware of my rights and you will not gain entry to my home under any circumstances to levy goods and the fees allowed under statue and when which fees can be applied.

 

Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay this in one payment. I advocate a payment schedule of 24 months with 23 months payments at £xx.xx and the balance of £xx.xx to be paid on the 24th month to cover the principle. I understand this may seem a long time but this is a realistic offer that is affordable to me and will allow me to pay future bills issued for Council Tax without them falling into arrears. A greater amount would cause me real and factually hardship.

 

I am able to pay the above amount on the xx of each month, as an act of good faith I have enclosed the first payment chq number xxxxxx. Please advise how you would like future payments made. My personal preference is payment by Standing Order.

 

It should be noted that I am not at any point refusing to pay this debt but only asking for a fair payment period considering my circumstances. And if you are unable to accept my offer I will place the money aside each month until such a time the council take the account back into their management, when I will make payment of the set aside money to the council.

 

Please also send an itemised statement of account that clearly shows what charges have been added and what for, you are required in statue to supply this information and I look forward to this within 14 days.

 

I am sending the council a copy of this letter and requesting that it be filled with my account for further reference.

 

I hope the above meets your approval and I look forward to your timely reply by letter.

 

Yours faithfully,

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi guys,

Well got a reply to my letter. i enclosed a cheque with it as well for first instalment of council tax arrears. Jacobs have said thy cannot provide me with a breakdown of costs or accpt my proposal of payment as it is now with one of their bailiffs and i would have to ing him to sort it out. And that he has all the paperwork so they are unable to anything. I really do not want ring him. So what now. Any advice please. xxxxxxx

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hi, I had a jacobs baliff turn up for my council tax. When i spoke to him he said that need to arrange payment and he would have to come round. So I then rang the councils recovery department and explained to them the problem was having with paying the council tax etc. A very helpful person told me that I should arrange to see the CAB. By doing this you are showing your are in probs and trying to resolve this. When you do this the council will put the account with jacobs on hold. But beware, when I had the account put on hold, the baliff turned up and snuck a second letter through the door. WITH CHARGES. I immediatly rang him, and he told me it was standard, but the account was on hold. So rang the council who phoned jacobs on my behalf. I got a letter of apologie from them and removal of charges. I then wrote a letter to the council explaining that I could only pay a certain amount, and will pay them directly. That way you only have to pay what is owed to the council. Also helps if you say with the arrears you will pay this years tax bill. hope this helps a bit

Thanks

Lesleydeacanjason

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Things you NEED

 

  1. Get hold of a telephone conversation equipment or something that can record a phone conversation. This is useful as I will explain later
  2. A diary
  3. Proof of all payments you have so far made towards your arrears

Step 1

 

After mailing the initial letter asking for a breakdown of the charges and getting the unhelpful response from the Bailiffs (as is expected anyway) and assuming you posted a copy of the same letter to your Local Council Revenues Office

 

Call the Bailiff in charge and make sure you record the conversation. Ask him the outstanding balance and bring to his notice that you have already requested for a detailed info. through a letter, as regards charges (If any) levied on the account and the full balance as at xxxxxxxx

 

He might not tell you, in any case - since you have It recorded, that should work out fine later on.

 

I am assuming the chap has already paid you an initial visit and left a letter warning of REMOVAL etc and a charge on top

 

 

Draft this letter

 

To

xxxxxx Revenue and Benefits Service

xxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

 

Ref. Council Tax:

 

xxxxxxxxx – Council Tax Account Number

 

I refer to my letter to your department dated on xxxxxxx. I have just received a letter from xxxxxxx Certified Bailiffs dated xxxxxxx which I am enclosing as a copy with this letter. As per the current state of affairs, I am unsure about certain charges added to my account by the bailiff company. I have asked them for an explanation, but I have been unable to get this.

 

 

In that case, I am arranging meeting with one of your Council Tax team members in order to discuss this further. I will also be requesting a run down of payments the Council has received from XXXXX Bailiffs. In the meantime, until the bailiff's demands and charges have been fully investigated and explained to me in writing, I plan to make payments directly to xxxxxx Council starting from xxxxxxx as outlined in my recorded delivery letter posted to your office, dated on xxxxxxx.

 

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

 

Hi guys,

Well got a reply to my letter. i enclosed a cheque with it as well for first instalment of council tax arrears. Jacobs have said thy cannot provide me with a breakdown of costs or accpt my proposal of payment as it is now with one of their bailiffs and i would have to ing him to sort it out. And that he has all the paperwork so they are unable to anything. I really do not want ring him. So what now. Any advice please. xxxxxxx

C-L-A-I-M-E-D £1000 W-O-N £1000

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  • 2 months later...

Hi everyone. Please help again. Scared now and at wits end. I sent the letter as advised to jacobs as you know enclosing cq for payment installment. I also asked for a break down of fees. Tis they said they could not do whilst it is in the hands of the bailiff. They then sent me another letter saying that the debt is now at enforcement stage. Last week. I sent them another installment and told them i was only able to pay 33.oo a month. I recieved a reply yesterday from them. Saying

 

Dear Sir/madam

Re council tax

Due to leeds city council

 

Further to your recent communication i write to inorm you of the following,

 

We acknowledge receipt of your letter and note contents therein.

 

Your account has now progressed to enforcement stage and payment in full is now due.

 

Therefore, please contact our enforcement bailiff Mr XXXXXXXX (RT) direct on Tele xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx with regard to this matter.

 

We are unable to give you a breakdown of the account whilst the paperwork is with the bailiff.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Jacobs.

 

Now They have never been in my house and i have never spoken to the bailiff. And when i got home today bailiff has put another letter through my door saying i have 24/48 hrs to contact him or else he will be round with a van and porters to seize my goods. And highlighted he has put if nothing forthcoming he will advise council to put a warrent out for my commital to prison. It also says as i have not communicated with jacobs at all (which is a total lie) why would i have replies from them if i had not had some communication with them. I have already PMed herbie about said bailiff. And he does not appear to be certificated to work with jacobs but another company. Please help. I spoke to council last year and they were so rude i ended up in tears for days. Almost as bad as bailiif company themselves. Also council said the bailiff could charge whatever they liked. I am staying at a friends house as i am so scared. All my doors and windows are locked. Any advice welcome. Thank you

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Prison

 

This is extremely rare, but if you can afford to make payments to your arrears, then you must otherwise the local authority can ask for your committal to prison. In order to be sent to prison the magistrate must be convinced that you have either 'wilfully refused' to pay the tax or you have been 'culpably neglectful' which means you have had the means to pay but have simply neglected to pay .You will receive a Summons to appear before the magistrates to explain why you should not be committed to prison. Regular payments, even small ones, are a valid defence against imprisonment and the magistrates have the power to write off some or all of the debt. If you do not appear a Warrant for your arrest will be issued.

You have made payments it is not you being awkward,Do not let these idiots into your property,and if you were served a commital notice i cannot see the j.p's acting against you,as you have clearly offered and made payments, as for your council stating Bailiff's can charge what they like that's wrong,perhaps you should remind your council that they are responsible for THEIR Bailiff's actions.

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As it happens i have just paid aprils installment for this year to the council direct and on friday i will be able to pay may and junes. And i have sent two payments for 33.00 to jacobs for last years council tax arrears, so its obvious i am not wilfuly not paying my debt. If the bailiff has never been in my house so has not managed to get a walking possesion on my goods could he still break in when i am not there and take things anyway, I am so sorry for asking and i do read this forum like a hawk everyday but my head is so smashed today if the answer is already there somewhere i cant find it. My house i think is secure so will stay at my friends house for another couple of days.

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As it happens i have just paid aprils installment for this year to the council direct and on friday i will be able to pay may and junes. And i have sent two payments for 33.00 to jacobs for last years council tax arrears, so its obvious i am not wilfuly not paying my debt. If the bailiff has never been in my house so has not managed to get a walking possesion on my goods could he still break in when i am not there and take things anyway,( no he can't,he can gain entry through an opened window or unlocked door but he cannot force entry )I am so sorry for asking and i do read this forum like a hawk everyday but my head is so smashed today if the answer is already there somewhere i cant find it. My house i think is secure so will stay at my friends house for another couple of days.

 

You feel free to ask, many good people on here will give you the advice you need.

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Thank you so much. I will write another letter to them and copy it to council as well. In a way now i think i would let them take me to court. But i will carry on paying anyhow. Apart from the emotional side of things when i seperated from my husband i had not realised what a massive impact it has made on my finances. Dropped from 2 good salaries to one in a breath. But its taken almost 2 years for the full impact to be felt. Just for once i would like a smaller hole to climb out of instead of what seems like a cavern. Or do i just need longer ladders. Sorry needed i bit of a lighter moment. Thank you all for the advice. xxxxxxxx

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Oh ok hang on. Getting my head round this. So even if he does NOT have levy on my goods and he has NEVER been in my house he could still come in through an open window or unlocked door. JUst need to get it right in my head. And just noticed they have added 200.00 to the debt as well. At least dick turpin wore a mask.

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Oh ok hang on. Getting my head round this. So even if he does NOT have levy on my goods and he has NEVER been in my house he could still come in through an open window or unlocked door. JUst need to get it right in my head. And just noticed they have added 200.00 to the debt as well. At least dick turpin wore a mask.

 

Yes he can climb through an opened window or enter through an unlocked door,this would not be classed as forced entry.

Keep all windows shut and keep the door locked.

as for his charges take the letter to the council and insist they act on the threatening behaviour he is using against you. ask for the revenues manager a launch a complaint.

Also you state his certificate does not cover the company he represents,check this with the court where he obtained his certificate from,if this is proven that he is not registered with jacobs then state this to your council and also put a complaint in with the court where he was certificated.

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Guest Herbie

We have a letter on our website that should be used immediately. As you know CAG are not allowing me to advertise this so instead I will have to pm you with details.

 

Please ensure that you have written everything down that the bailiff has said. This is toally out of order and a disgrace. If this is how bailiffs are acting BEFORE the TCE Bill becomes law, god help us all . I think I have given you details of the court where he gained his original certificate. They will tel you whether the baiiff has a hearing pending for a new certificate to be issued allowing him to work for his present company.

 

In any event, if there isn't an application pending, you can of course apply to the present court for a formal complaint as to his conduct, and I quite certain that the Judge would take a very dim view of allowing any new certificate based on his actions here. Please pm if any problems.

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everything so far is in writing from myself and from them replying to my letters. And then the two letters bailiff has put through my door. No personal contact at all. And three times i have asked for the breakdown of charges but they will not give it to me. They are trying to force my hand into ringing the bailiff so he can come and do a levy. They say they cannot accept an offer of installments without a levy. Also on the letter from bailiff cheques not allowed and if i pay there office then there will be a charge for using my debit card. Even though they cashed the first cheque i sent them. Strange people. And even though they will not accept installments until such levy is made they are still accepting money i send them. I want to be on there planet. Seems they can make up the rules as they go along. I will do the letter you mentioned. Again thank you. I am feeling somewhat better now. Thought the prozac was going to be given another airing

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Guest Herbie

Can you let me know the local authority. In addition to having a database of bailiffs, we have many of the contracts between the bailiff company and the local authority. It would be best to pm this info.

 

Just this morning we issued a formal complaint about the same issue whereby the baiiff was stating that they cannot take cheques....nonsense, and that they have to levy on goods BEFORE alowing repayment proposals (also nonsense).

 

They do this to ensure that they can get a percentage fee on the debit card and that they can also charge a Walking Possession fee etc. DO NOT AGREE to this.

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They say they cannot accept an offer of installments without a levy.

 

This is absolute rubbish they just want you to let them in... follow Herbie's great advice and you won't go far wrong :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Good morning peeps, Well we have an update on my problem. And its not a good one. It would appear the council tax debt has been passed back to leeds city council. I have just received this letter. Think i am well and truly stuffed.

 

LCC

Address etc

 

Dear Mrs +++++

Council Tax arrears

 

Unless you pay 2037.82 detailed on the back of this letter within 7 days i will be instigating immediate bankruptcy proceedings in the county court by service at your last known address.

 

You will incur extra costs if the Authority has to make you bankrupt. If proceedings are issued, initial costs of at least 590.00 plus legal fees will be added to this debt, which you will have to pay.

 

I enclose a booklet Guide to bankruptcy which how this action will affect you. If you want to speak to someone about this letter please ring Ms +++++ on Tele. >>>>>>>>

 

Yours sincerely

 

Head of Revenues

 

 

 

Now i am not refusing to pay this debt at all. In fact i paid Aprils installment for this year end of may. And as soon as i get some money at the end of this week i will pay up to date for this year. I have also paid 2 installments of 33.00 to Jacobs. I told Jacobs this was all i could afford per month to clear off previous council tax. They cashed my cheques but refused to enter an arrangement unless as i said before they had a levy on my goods. The amount the council want is made up of last years tax and All of this years. As i say i am Not refusing to pay them. If they make me bankrupt then surely they will get diddly squat from me. Especially as if they do that i will lose my job. Am i stuffed. Yes i think i am.But then again going to court for this to happen could be a welcome relief in a way.

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Hello smashed, I know this is worrying but first do as Herbie says.Secoundly, have you been to the council offices in person to explain the situation. I had a similer situation and found that when faced one to one they were a lot more 'flexible''. Remember alot of the letters you get are automatic. Bankruptcy procedings takes time and a judge (anyone correct me if i'm wrong) will take into account all offers of payment first and i think in this case(if it did go that far-and i don't think it will) they would be unlikely to bankrupt you.

I know when your in a dark hole tunnnel this there seems no light but there is -you doing the right things. Try a face to face appointment with the council officer in charge of council tax as soon as possible and show you are trying you best to clear the arrears. Keep us all updated and help wil be at hand. You have friends here.

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Hoo hoo hoo woop woop. Ok guys just come off phone to council tax people. spoke to a really lovely lady. All sorted. Accepted my payment arrangement. The debt is still with bailliffs but they are going to call it back when i have made my payment for this years installment on thursday. Told her my situation, she asked why i had not been in contact with them. I told i had but te last person i spoke to there was not for moving an inch. And was really quite nasty. So she apologised and said that most were human beings. So am sorted. Thank you for the support and advice everyone. It gave me the courage to actually get on phone and stand my ground. She even admitted i had been paying but that is was just not enough. Although i told i still could not pay anymore now she knows my situation we are going to revue things on a weekly basis. I did tell i would only speak to her though. She said that fine. Thank you thank you thank you. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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Not as wide as mine right now hun let me tell you. I can now tackle everything else now. And your right . CAG is the thing that helped me. But dont forget CAG is made up of an awful lot of people. And its the [people that give the support and advice that make this site. Again thank you.

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