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ILLEGAL CCJ on ACCOUNT - DESPERATE!**WON AT LAST**


electric lemon
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Um, electric, is it possible to scan the actual default notice and agreement up? it really is quite important. You can wash personal details off the docs.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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Letter prev sent to me regarding my defence from Cl's solicitors:

 

 

" Dear Mrs EL

 

We refer to the defence which you have filed in this matter.

 

Please find enclosed a copy of the Notice of Assignment served upon you on 9th March 2007 in accordance with the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

We can confirm that GE Money's Data Credit Management Team are dealing with your Data Subject Access Request.

 

We note your comments regarding the Default Notice, however the said Notice allowed you fourteen days from 22nd February 2007 to remedy the Default but you failed to do so. Therefore, our client was at liberty to issue proceedings against you fourteen days after the issue of the Default Notice.

 

We can confirm that we shall be progressing this Claim in the County Court, however our Client may consider your proposals for settlement and should you agree to the same, we respectively request that you contact this office to discuss the matter further.

 

We trust this clarifies the position and look forward to you reply.

 

Yours sincerely,"

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well, is it possible to go to your local library and scan it there? I really, really need to get the exact words on the notice.

 

EDIT: can you confirm (a) what date the default notice was issued on (b)what date the court action was issued on

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

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The agreement is identical to someones on here called ? Angel & if I recollect nothing stood out & all appeared in order.

 

As for the default notice This was sent by GE Money. Dated 22nd Feb 2007 though I didnt receive it until 3rd March 2007.

 

Account number, name, address correct. Theres a red box top right hand corner stating that it is a default notice.Served under section 87(1) of CCA 1974.

 

Notice of assignment appears to be ok too with all details.

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My defence was issued 12/04/2007 to stay proceedings.

 

Court acknowledgement of defence sent to me dated 24/05/2007.

 

18/06/2007 - court letter sent to me stating that: the claimant having failed to file the AQ as directed, unless the claimant files the AQ by 4.p.m. 29th June 2007 the claim shall be struck out.

 

Their AQ wasnt filed but went in a few days later - it still wasnt struck out!

 

05/07/2007 - letter from court stating date for determination hearing for 29th August. I went - CL did not. This is where I stated I coudnt file a proper defence/cc as I didnt have all the statements of account, whereupon the judge produced them! CL sent them to him not me! And there were masses missing. Judge then ordered CL to get missing statements to me.

 

05/09/2007 - Letter from court ordering that CL/the Claimant do by 4.p.m. on 19th sept file & serve all monthly statements that were missing, and that a determination hearing be set for 12th Oct 2007.

 

I asked for a vacation of the hearing for that date as my Mother was very unwell. The statements STILL did not get sent to me by CL despite another order from the judge!! Determination hearing set for Dec 14th 2007.

 

14.12/2007 - Determination hearing. I turned up as you know. so did CL's solicitors. They AGAIN were ordered to comply with the judges orders from August re the missing statements & were given till 31st Jan 2008.

 

Some of the statements arrived around that date, but as you are aware 20 statements are still missing - just under 2years worth.

 

I have to put in my amended defence & CC by 29th Feb, & it has been listed for a determination hearing on 26th March.

 

PHEW!!

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OK, thanks for that. If at all possible, can you go into town and scan up those two documents tomorrow?

 

I know it sounds pendantic, but with law the devil is in the detail, and I really need to be able to see them. Also, do you still have the envelope the default notice came in?

 

Finally, what was the contents of the order of 31 January?

 

i'll see where we are tomorrow.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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Hi Electric,

 

As you know you & I had a similar case against CL & GE. The claim against me got struck out & I won some money & costs too.

 

Here is a copy of my defence. Hope it helps.

 

_______________________

1. On 18 May 2005, when I signed agreement with GE Capital Bank for a Debenhams Store Card I was not shown or given the Terms & Conditions of the agreement. Claimant refers to these in the Particulars of Claim as being in Clause 7 of the agreement. However, I was not given these either at the time of entering into the agreement or when they sent me a copy of the alleged agreement in response to my request for a copy of the full agreement under the CCA 1974. Thus, Claimant has breached S61, S63 & S 78 of the CCA 1974 making this agreement improperly executed and unenforceable.

 

 

2. Claimant alleges that a Default Notice has been served on me pursuant to the S 87(1) of the CCA 1974. I have never received such a default notice. Under the Schedule 2 of the CCA 2006 that came into force on 1st October 2006, S 88 of CCA 1974 was amended to the effect that debtor now needs to have 14 days to respond to Creditor from when default notice is served. Therefore, for these proceedings to have been valid, a default notice should have reached me 14 days prior to Claimant issuing court proceedings. As papers were prepared on 30 March 2007, a default notice should have reached me on or before 16 March 2007. However GE Money’s letter to me after that date (19th March) completely contradicts this. Therefore, a default notice has not been served in accordance with the CCA 1974(amended 2006).

 

3. Furthermore, if the Claimant now present the court a default notice that they allege was served, if the amount owed on the default notice comprises of any penalty charges , the amount is incorrect and therefore, the notice is rendered legally invalid.

 

 

3. I dispute the assignment of this debt to Claimant. Claimant alleges that a Notice of Assignment was sent to me prior to proceedings being issued. However I received the Notice of Assignment 12 days after proceedings were issued, sent by Business Post.

 

4. Notice of Assignment refers to an incorrect amount owed. The amount referred to includes unlawful penalty charges and therefore renders the Notice legally invalid. The case that supports this is W.F.Harrison & Co Ltd v Burke [1956] 1 WLR 419. The last correspondence GE Money sent me on the 19 March before assigning this debt to Claimant on 28 March, does not give me notice that this debt will be assigned to third party 10 days later. Therefore, they have breached S136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 making this assignment of debt legally invalid.

 

5. Claimant has failed to provide to me a complete list of statements from the inception of the account on 18 May 2005. Their 1-paged letter listing a few late arrears charges between February 2006 and December 2006 is unacceptable. By not providing me with all the information requested under the Data Protection Act, yet cashing the fee for it, Claimant has committed a criminal act and rendered this debt unenforceable until such time that the breach continues.

 

6.I submit that the charges levied to my account, as set out in the Claimant’s statement letter, penalty charges arising from and relating directly to breaches of contract, both explicit and implied, on the part of the claimant. As a contractual penalty, the charges are unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, the Unfair Contracts (Terms) Act 1977, and the common law.

 

7. I refer to the FSA disciplinary history for GE Capital Bank Ltd. On 30 January 2007, the FSA fined GE Capital Bank £610,000 in respect of breaches of FSA principles, mainly Principle 2(due skill, care & diligence), principle 3 (management & control) & Principle 6 ( Customer’s interests) . This fine proves that GE Capital are known to the authorities for breach of regulations and improper conduct.

 

Then as you know I had a hearing in October which got adjourned. I then realised that the Credit Agreement did not mention the APR anywhere and the T & C provided by GE as clause 7, did not tally numerically to their POC & Witness Statement to court.

 

I then filed a counter claim which was this:

 

Defendant denies that she is liable to the Claimant as alleged in the Particulars of Claim or at all. It is averred that the Claimants have commenced these proceedings unlawfully and vexatiously, having failed to prove that a valid credit agreement exists between CL Finance and myself. In May 2007, in response to my request the Claimants provided what they have stated is a copy of the credit agreement. The document furnished however, is a copy of an application form, which is not a credit agreement. The document provided does not accord in form and content with sections 60 and 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, or the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, which stipulates the fundamental requirements for credit agreements. Specifically, the application form does not contain the prescribed terms of the alleged credit agreement; and given that the Claimants are asserting that the document furnished in May 2007, is a copy of the purported agreement, the fact that said document does not detail any prescribed terms, renders the alleged agreement entirely legally unenforceable and these proceedings are completely unfounded. The request for the alleged credit agreement was made under section 78(1)running account credit, of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. CL Finance have issued a Court claim without having any proof that a credit agreement exists. I would therefore contend that the Claimant’s conduct amounts to unlawful harassment.

 

The Claimant’s vexatious manner of litigation has resulted in the wastage of time and costs both for me and the court. The Claimants failed to file the Allocation Questionnaire by the 3rd July and the matter was stayed. The Claimants then managed to apply to court to get the stay lifted and the Hearing was scheduled for the 5th October 2007 with clear directions to the service of documents and witness statements from both parties 14 days prior to the hearing. The Claimants once again failed to adhere to the directions and served Statement of truth drafted by a Litigation Assistant just 7 days prior to the hearing. At the Hearing, the Claimant’s representative confirmed to the Judge several times that the Witness Statements served by the defendant had not been received by them. Please find attached Recorded Posting Receipt and Electronic Proof of delivery signed by the Claimants on the receipt of the documents on the 24th September send by the defendant on the 21st September 2007. The Claimant has, therefore, misdirected the Court on the truth.

 

This resulted in the defendant wasting a whole day off from work which cost her £108.30. A lot of valuable time was spent in researching and preparing the extensive documents to Court and Claimant. Defendant estimates that approximately 80 hours have been spent so far on the preparation of documents in defending this matter and would like to claim the costs of that from the Claimant. As I earn £14.44 per hour, this amounts to £1155.20. This does not include the costs of Recorded Deliveries, Faxes and Copying of over 300 pages of evidence that the defendant had to supply to the claimant twice. As I don’t have receipts, I estimate these to have cost me £30.00 approximately.

 

The amount claimed by the Claimant includes Penalty Charges that are unlawful and the defendant would like to claim them back. These are not very clear as the statements provided by the Claimants are not thorough and complete. According to my calculations, these amount to atleast £120.00.

 

Defendant would also like to claim for the undue stress and anxiety that the Claimants irresponsible behaviour has caused her.

 

 

The Hearing was on the 30th Jan & I won indeed.

 

EL, like I have told you before - the key to this case, as was mine are

 

Credit Agreement

 

Default Notice

 

Notice of Assignment

 

Please would you scan these (erasing your personal details) and either post on here or PM me. These are the only things that matter. Having attended two trials and won, I now understand that the law is so clear on these 3 issues and there is no way you can lose if these are incorrect.

 

Manjusha

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Credit Agreement

 

Default Notice

 

Notice of Assignment

 

Please would you scan these (erasing your personal details) and either post on here or PM me. These are the only things that matter. Having attended two trials and won, I now understand that the law is so clear on these 3 issues and there is no way you can lose if these are incorrect.

 

i dont want to sound like a party pooper, but you can still lose even if the credit agreement is flawed,albeit the judge would have made an error on a point of law and you would have automatic right of appeal

 

i had to deal with a case the other week where the judge wasnt even aware that s15 CCA2006 does not have effect on agreements before 6th april 2007 and was going to award judgment for the creditor initially even though the agreement was so irredeemably unenforceable under the CCA 1974

 

it just goes to show that you need to have your case well prepared

Manjusha

 

glad to see you got the desired result Manjusha, its great to see the consumers fighting back against these unscrupulous organisations

 

Leccy, the main important thing is that , as soon as you can, post a copy of those documents that have been asked for. then we can put a strong defence together and deal with this for you

 

Regards

 

paul

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Thanks a millions guys.

 

Manjusha - so good to see you & to hear of your success. You've done so well & should be really proud of yourself.

 

It does appear that there are quite a few similarities with both our cases & I really appreciate your input. Thank you.

 

Tomterm, in reference to the contents of the order of 31st Jan. This was pertaining to the Judges orders that the claimant...."provide copies of all monthly statements since inception of the account on 22 june 2002 - June 2005. (this is where there were lots of statements missing)

 

CL sent a letter referring to the order with a letter dated 11th Jan, confirming that the same have been served on the court, also stating ....We trust this is in order!!

 

It isnt! And they havent complied.

 

Thank you Paul hugely millions for your experise & time, tomterm too. Think you're stars**

 

Leccy

xxx

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Be careful, call the court and find out what they were sent. CL have played silly bu****s before, haven't they? As they court if they have the missing statements.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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Thanks tomterm - will call the court to check what they have received. If theyve done it before...they may do it again....

 

Am off this morning to Kallkwik to get the documents scanned.

 

Once they scan them how do I retreive them again to place them on CAG here ??

 

Please note Im not very pc literate :o( !

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Hi EL

Sorry to see you are still having trouble with this lot. I have a Court hearing set for end of April,but continuing health problems force me to discontinue my battle with them and I have just amended my Defence to that effect. I also included a letter to the Court outlining the reasons.

 

I sent in an N244 and copied the same to CL Finance with a letter stating my circumstances and request they accept token repayments. Depending on how they take the contents of the letter may result in not going to Court at all. I also included a copy of this letter to the Court.

 

The route I have taken now pertains to my situation, and I did not want to compromise my health any longer. Had I not been in such an unhealthy situation, I would have continued the battle.

 

I'm not in a position to give advice but you have my support and I wish you well. Hope your Mothers health is improving.xx

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Hi El,

 

What I do if I don't have a disk handy (or can't afford to buys some) is after scanning documents to a pc, log into my hotmail account and do an email to myself and attach the scanned documents to the email. I then have the docs scanned with the email sitting in my email inbox and can access them from any PC.

 

As for uploading them on here, have never done it so can't help on that I am afraid.

 

I also found the following website quite helpful. I only used their free service and did not purchase any of their services.

 

{Edit}

 

Manjusha

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hi electric

 

I trust you are well i am very much from the Laiste camp so will guide you if required, should u need assistance.

 

 

Regards

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

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Paul,

 

Why was my thread edited? I clearly stated that I used the free service. This website is referred to by Martin on the MoneySavingExpert website as well. If EL or anyone else wants to use the free service on there, what is the harm? It was not a commercial link at all.

 

Manjusha

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The site you quoted is a commercial company, and it is against forum rules to post links to commercial companies on this site.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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hi electric

 

I trust you are well i am very much from the Laiste camp so will guide u you if required should u need assistance

 

 

Regards

Andy

 

Hi, Andy, I'm sure electric lemon is waiting for your advice with baited breath. How is Laiste by the way:rolleyes:

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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hi tomtern

Laiste is fine and doing well pity a loss to this site but her reputation lives on through me, Nothing like a Laiste defence im sureTom you would agree i know how much you admired her

 

 

Regrards

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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hi tomtern

Laiste is fine and doing well pity a loss to this site but her reputation lives on through me, Nothing like a Laiste defence im sureTom you would agree i know how much you admired her

 

 

Regrards

Andy

 

Hmm, if you say so. i personally have never been convinced by Laiste's approaches

 

as for a loss, no i don't believe that's the case at all. there are many knowledgeable people on here who can do exactley the same job Laiste did and a EDITED

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