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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

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      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Help required (HFC)


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Out of 3 letters sent to HFC for 3 diff accounts (2 credit cards and a balance for a camcorder from Currys I think), I have received the info required from the currys balance on which £105 pounds was charged as admin fees, the other 2 have larger charges but no feedback yet and the time limit hasn't expired, should I go ahead and claim for this one or wait for a reply about the other 2, thanks for your help

any comment made is just my humble opinion....and what do i know:?: :)

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Thanks Karnevil, the letter sent was an sar, I am now sending a prelim letter asking for the charges and ppi (which was not agreed to) to be refunded and the total figure is now £313.50 and not £105

 

One thing I noted is there is a discrepancy in their addition below is a reproduction of part of the statement sent:

 

date tran-code/desc transaction balance

20.08.03 1st disbursement £699.99 £699.99

22.09.03 reg pmt eff dte £27.45 £676.33 (672.54)

20.10.03 reg pmt eff dte £27.45 £652.67 (648.88)

 

what they haven't shown is that there is a charge of £3.79 being added to the balance see figures in bracket that is what the balance should be, i am assuming this may be ppi, so i am claiming for everything.

 

will keep you posted, thanks for your help

any comment made is just my humble opinion....and what do i know:?: :)

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Fraud by failing to disclose information" is defined by Section 3 of the Fraud Act 2006 as a case where a person fails to disclose any information to a third party when they are under a legal duty to disclose such information.

 

Can I rely on the above in my LBA, as I have received my fob off from HFC saying "..i note from the schedule of charges...you are requesting a refund of the premiums paid for ppi. We are unable to refund the ins premium...as ppi was requested on the original application form"

 

My husband cannot remember signing for ppi, and from the statements sent, even as far back as 30.08.05, ppi does not show, its only when you do the calculation that you realise their figures don't add up (see figures in previous post)

 

Any help greatly appreciated.

any comment made is just my humble opinion....and what do i know:?: :)

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Just an update, I have sent an lba (relied on Fraud Act 2006), as I didn't get a feedback, hope it all goes well, look forward to going to court.

 

Quick question as my o/h is highly volatile, can i name myself as witness so as to be a calming effect and i also have a trick or 2 up my sleeves for the defendants lol:-)

 

i sure am looking forward to this

any comment made is just my humble opinion....and what do i know:?: :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi All,

Another twist in my tale, thought o/h had 3 accounts with HFC, discovered a 4th one, sent a sar, statement listing all transactions received and this is what we discovered.

 

6/3/04 Payment of £417.37 paid in to account HFC4 to clear it,

6/3/04 £547.46 transferred from HFC2 (credit card) to pay off HFC4, why the difference of £130.09???

 

8/3/04 Payment of £417.37 reversed from HFC4 and also reversed 6 payments of £23.52 which were dd payments taken from barclays account in previous months, these have not been paid back to barclays...where has it gone??

 

8/3/04 Interest capitalise of £115.36

17/3/04 Payment of £417.37 now credited into account, by this time the account has o/s balance of £115.36, they then continued taking the payments by dd till account was paid off on 24/8/04.

 

O/h went to local branch, was told no manager available to attend to this, went back the next day, was told unable to access any info on computer, get in touch with head office....

 

Any suggestions please???

 

Every contribution highly appreciated.

 

Ireatianu

any comment made is just my humble opinion....and what do i know:?: :)

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Hi All,

Another twist in my tale, thought o/h had 3 accounts with HFC, discovered a 4th one, sent a sar, statement listing all transactions received and this is what we discovered.

 

6/3/04 Payment of £417.37 paid in to account HFC4 to clear it,

6/3/04 £547.46 transferred from HFC2 (credit card) to pay off HFC4, why the difference of £130.09???

 

8/3/04 Payment of £417.37 reversed from HFC4 and also reversed 6 payments of £23.52 which were dd payments taken from barclays account in previous months, these have not been paid back to barclays...where has it gone??

 

8/3/04 Interest capitalise of £115.36

17/3/04 Payment of £417.37 now credited into account, by this time the account has o/s balance of £115.36, they then continued taking the payments by dd till account was paid off on 24/8/04.

 

O/h went to local branch, was told no manager available to attend to this, went back the next day, was told unable to access any info on computer, get in touch with head office....

 

Any suggestions please???

 

Every contribution highly appreciated.

 

Ireatianu

 

Hi Ireatianu

 

I'm guessing your intention was to settle the account before the interest was added on an IFO (Interest Free Option) account?

 

Check back through your bank account statements and see if a Direct Debit payment was ever refused or not paid for some reason. The only time HFC reverse off multiple payments like that and re-apply them is to correct a unpaid payment. If they haven't re-applied them, then you need to ask for an immediate investigation. I'd be surprised if the funds have been stolen - they may have some dodgy sales people, but their accounting systems are very robust.

 

There is often an overlap with the last direct debit. For some reason, when you cancel the DD at your bank, HFC don't know anything about it and they claim it anyway. So their systems shows the payment being received. It's only when 3 days later your bank recalls the payment that HFC find out.

 

From your perspective, it's like nothing happened - it won't show on your bank statements. All the work is done behind the scenes as it were. But if you paid your HFC retail account off in those few days, the figure you would have been given would have included the direct debit payment, which was subsequently recalled. This is a failing on their part and not all the staff know of this issue.

 

The £115.36 is the interest that accrued from when you took the account out. Buy paying the account off in the option period, you would not have paid this. But as their system was too slow to realise the DD was cancelled, they gave you a lower and therefore insufficient figure to pay the account off. The same would also apply if there were insufficient funds in your account to pay the DD - they wouldn't know for about 3 days after the schedule due date.

 

To correct it, they should refund all the payments you've made since, less the one payment that was not paid.

 

As for the local branch, Branch Managers always seem to go missing when a complaint comes in. Also, your accounts are not branch based, so they don't really care as they're unlikely to get a sale out of you. Cynical, but likely to be true.

 

All branch staff will have access to your retail accounts, but they won't be able to see your credit card account which means they could sort it out in the branch if they wanted to. I suspect they either don't know how to deal with it (their staff turnover is extraordinarily high) or they are more concerned with hitting their sales targets....

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Hi Scooby_Doo2,

Thanks for your contribution, I was hoping you would drop by.

 

I have double checked the monthly payments and all were paid, no reason for them to have been reversed. I will be writing to H/O asking them to investigate.

 

Also do you by any chance know why they would transfer £547.46 from the credit card to the loan account but only pay in £417.37, the £130.09 difference would have covered the interest of £115.36, I will be asking for an explanation of this too.

 

Many thanks

Ire

 

ps Don't you sleep...lol :)

any comment made is just my humble opinion....and what do i know:?: :)

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I do sleep sometimes - it's just a habit I've got of checking my emails before bed and there's always a Consumer Action Group email in there! Then I read the reply and can't help myself!

 

With HFC's accounting system, every transaction is recorded and can never be removed. They may have pretty poor sales tactics, but I do admire the accounting system they use. The only trouble is, only employees who are a bit long in the tooth (like I was) know how to interpret the information - it's not something they train branch staff on.

 

So if any kind of mistake was made on their part, but wasn't corrected until some months later, they have to reverse off the payments made since the error temporarily, correct the error then re-apply the payments. It sounds complicated, but for someone with experience using their systems it's very straight forward. So from the sounds of it, HFC need to explain to you why they reversed these payments off. If no mistakes were made on your side, it must lie with them.

 

As for the credit card transaction, I cannot think of any reason why they would debit one amount from the card and credit a lesser amount to the retail account. I would imagine some kind of error has happened which is probably linked to the reversed payments, but without looking at the transactions on the system it's very hard to tell, but it will be traceable.

 

You may want to check your legal agreement for the IFO account - it will detail how much you borrowed. Eseentially, if you settled the account before the option date (also known as the capitalisation date) then you should have paid no more than the amount borrowed less the monthly payments you have made.

 

Watch out for PPI though - before general insurance became regulated by the FSA, companies like Dixons, Currys, PC World all received commission for PPI (and probably still do) and the legal agreements actually came pre-printed with a tick in the "Tick here to take advantage of this cover" box! Unless the customer spotted it, they paid the premium without even being told. Even when they were told about it, they were not told it was optional. It's outrageous behaviour when you look back at it now. I know this first hand when I financed a fridge/freezer and the agreement was with HFC (my employer at the time). I had to fight tooth and nail to get the PPI taken off!

 

From my experience, people who phone up Winkfield and ask to speak to the CEO get their complaints dealt with (and to their satisfaction) in a very short space of time.

 

Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help.

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Scooby,

 

Quick question. I have a loan with Beneficial Finance which was taken out in June 2003 and after doing the math the repayment figure is significantly more than I remember, even with the inflated APR. If I've worked it out correctly, over the life over the loan an extra £3k would have gone towards what I believe to be some form of "Insurance Policy" but I can't confirm this with the credit agreement.

 

I have requested a copy of the CCA, which is showing on Royal Mail track and trace as being signed for on 08/03/07, HOWEVER this is where I feel I've f@#ked up as it was addressed to HFC at the Edmund address in Birmingham and not Beneficial Finance. Should I resend the CCA request, or will it find it's was to the appropriate dept in BF.

 

Bugger :sad:

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HFC in Edmund Street, Brum is fine - Beneficial Finance is a trading name of HFC Bank. In fact, you're more likely to get the correct response by sending to Edmund Street than you are sending to the branch, but 8th March was over a month ago so you may want to call them to follow up.

 

Your actual legal agreement should be held in the branch where you took the loan from. So you could always visit the branch and ask them to produce it. They can also answer your question just by looking up your account details on the system.

 

If you want to freak the Customer Account Manager out, ask them to look at page 10 on CBS and ask them if the see the words "Rebate Paid CR" after "1st Disburse". What they will see will be two sums - one for the life premium, the other for the ASU (accident, sickness and unemployment) premium.

 

Personally, I would also make an official complaint as they have ignored your reasonable request for information. Pretty poor service in my opinion!

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Hi All,

Thanks Scooby, you've been a great help. I think the £130.09 is probably ppi, thats another battle for another day, I will be requiring all the help i can get in the ppi battle as the agreements had the ppi box ticked in advance and nothing was told to o/h about ppi.

 

I will be writing to ask for an investigation about the monthly payments which were reversed and have not been re-applied.

 

Thanks to everyone for all the help, will keep you updated.

 

Ireatianu

any comment made is just my humble opinion....and what do i know:?: :)

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Hi All,

Thanks Scooby, you've been a great help. I think the £130.09 is probably ppi, thats another battle for another day, I will be requiring all the help i can get in the ppi battle as the agreements had the ppi box ticked in advance and nothing was told to o/h about ppi.

 

I will be writing to ask for an investigation about the monthly payments which were reversed and have not been re-applied.

 

Thanks to everyone for all the help, will keep you updated.

 

Ireatianu

 

If they were settling the retail account with a transfer from the credit card, the amounts should still be identical. PPI on a credit card will show on your statement usually at the same time any interest is charged and is normally in the region of 70p for every £100 you owe (or 0.70% of your balance).

 

Ultimately, the bank has an obligation to treat you fairly. Not explaining charges, using unrecognisable jargon and selling you something you never asked for are all prime examples of NOT treating you fairly.

 

The current siege the banks are under at the moment is to do with the legality of penalty charges and people taking the banks to court. PPI is a whole different ball game as the legality is not being contested. But don't let that put you off! If you weren't told about the policy, or that it was optional, they haven't treated you fairly.

 

You haven't been able to make an informed choice - that is in breach of not only the FSA's Principles for Businesses but also the Banking Code of Conduct.

 

If you need any help constructing a letter of complaint, just give me a shout. I'm more than happy to help.

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Hi Scooby, Hi All,

 

I have got a reply from HFC about one of the loan accounts (HFC3), wrote previously asking for money back and information about internal complaints procedure regarding ppi miss-selling.

 

PPI

Been told it was not miss-sold as agreement was signed at point of sale, but if you are unhappy with the way store administered your application regarding the insurance, we would refer you to their management team (nice1, weren't they acting as an agent for HFC?)

 

Charges

Got a conditional gogw offer for half the amount, I will be rejecting the offer using the template in the library.

 

Said if not satisfied case can be referred to FOS.

 

What do you think, should i make a another complaint for ppi for this particular case (i have and been told to go to PC World) or do i go the FOS route. I will be needing your help as to what letter to send.

 

Thank you so much.

 

Live Long and have Fun,

 

Ireatianu

any comment made is just my humble opinion....and what do i know:?: :)

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Ok, the store DOES act as an agent for HFC Bank and therefore HFC does have responsibility for the sale of it's product. Also, just because you signed the agreement at point of sale, does not automatically mean is was not miss-sold.

 

HFC employ National Account Managers who look after the various retail stores which HFC provide finance to customers through. Part of their job is to ensure their retail partners have sufficient knowledge and training in order to sell HFC's products.

 

Also, HFC are the ones who received the premiums, so ultimately they are the ones you are looking to get it back from. I think they may be trying to deflect your complaint to the retail store, as the retail store is not regulated by the FSA.

 

Your complaint is about the sale of an insurance policy on a regulated contract where the store employee acted as an agent for HFC Bank. The buck stops there - period. The sale of general insurance, whether it's done at a bank, a retail store, over the phone or online, is all regulated by the FSA.

 

I would certainly continue your action for the charges. For the PPI, I would write back and explain that you are not satisfied with the response. They need to issue you with a "final response" on the matter, then you can refer your complaint for the FOS to adjudicate. I personally doubt it will get that far - it will cost them £360 for the case fee alone. But sometimes they can be stubborn so stick to your guns!

 

I'm more than happy to help construct a letter - I'll need more facts about what happened, but make sure you leave out and personally identifiable information; this is a public forum afterall!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Oh Scooby!!!,

 

Tried all night to upload some statements (didn't work obviously:confused: ), the statements I received when I made a cca request have been 'airbrushed':) the dd payments which were all reversed on the same day 08/03/04 now have different dates. I have also found the missing £130.09 was paid in on the 17/03/04 rather than 06/03/04 and described as 'irregular payment', its only the dd payments that are still missing (gone awol for some reason). I have received a reply to my complaint that they are looking into it, so they now have 4 weeks to respond...I will be patient.

 

I have been offered a 50% (approximately) goodwill gesture for 3 of the accounts, these offers have been rejected and I have reminded them that the same timescale still applies.

 

The fight for ppi is yet to commence, my o/h was not working when one was sold to him ( the May 2003 purchase from Currys), he then got an agency job in mid June 03 I somehow don't think this should constitute permanent employment for the Aug 03 purchase from Currys too, but as we were not told about the ppi, we will be fighting for the repayment sooner than later, just trying to make some progress on the bank charges front. Once again thank you so much for your help (this applies to everyone on this site), without you all this fight would never have commenced.

 

Regards

 

Ireatianu

any comment made is just my humble opinion....and what do i know:?: :)

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Oh Scooby!!!,

 

Tried all night to upload some statements (didn't work obviously:confused: ), the statements I received when I made a cca request have been 'airbrushed':) the dd payments which were all reversed on the same day 08/03/04 now have different dates. I have also found the missing £130.09 was paid in on the 17/03/04 rather than 06/03/04 and described as 'irregular payment', its only the dd payments that are still missing (gone awol for some reason). I have received a reply to my complaint that they are looking into it, so they now have 4 weeks to respond...I will be patient.

 

I have been offered a 50% (approximately) goodwill gesture for 3 of the accounts, these offers have been rejected and I have reminded them that the same timescale still applies.

 

The fight for ppi is yet to commence, my o/h was not working when one was sold to him ( the May 2003 purchase from Currys), he then got an agency job in mid June 03 I somehow don't think this should constitute permanent employment for the Aug 03 purchase from Currys too, but as we were not told about the ppi, we will be fighting for the repayment sooner than later, just trying to make some progress on the bank charges front. Once again thank you so much for your help (this applies to everyone on this site), without you all this fight would never have commenced.

 

Regards

 

Ireatianu

 

 

If your o/h was sold a policy when he didn't work more than 16 hours per week, then he was not eligible for the policy. They cannot sell a PPI policy to someone who is out of work. Therefore it has been clearly miss-sold and I would imagine, totally undefendable from HFC's point of view! :grin: :grin:

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Hi Everybody,

O/H has received 100% offer for HFC1 &2 (these are the beneficial credit cards), accepted waiting for cheques.

Submitted N1 for HFC3, awaiting court date.

HFC4 waiting for feedback from complaint made, 4 weeks not up yet, there were no charges on this account but there is ppi and some funds took a walk :) hence the complaint.

PPI fight to begin after receipt of cheques.

Thanks to you all, you have been generous with your time and comments, without you all the fight would probably never have started.

Scooby you’ve been a great help, many thanks

Well done cagites:)

Ireatianu

any comment made is just my humble opinion....and what do i know:?: :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

One cheque for approximately £700.00 received today, to be paid in asap, waiting for other for £280.00 hopefully will come in tomorrow.

 

Look forward to making donation as soon as cheques have cleared.

 

On HFC 3, bank has on till 18/05/07 to file their defence (I think its ridiculous that its gone this far, its only for £105.00)

 

Will keep you posted, many thanks

 

Ireatianu :-)

any comment made is just my humble opinion....and what do i know:?: :)

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One cheque for approximately £700.00 received today, to be paid in asap, waiting for other for £280.00 hopefully will come in tomorrow.

 

Look forward to making donation as soon as cheques have cleared.

 

On HFC 3, bank has on till 18/05/07 to file their defence (I think its ridiculous that its gone this far, its only for £105.00)

 

Will keep you posted, many thanks

 

Ireatianu :-)

 

Great stuff! Well done!! :D

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi All,

 

Just got the last cheque for approximately £150 today, 5% donation made for everything recovered to date:

 

Barclays business a/c (£120)

HFC 1 (£704)

HFC 2 (£281)

HFC 3 (£156)

 

3 HFC accounts down one to go, this does not have charges on it, but payments were reversed, I've been told that these were refunded to o/h, he is not aware of receiving any refunds, complaint has been escalated, they will be providing proof of how the £270 was refunded.

 

Scooby we did it, thank you so much, how have you been? Have exams this week so been busy, thats why the ppi battle has not started couldn't cope. You are a star, thanks for your support and God bless.

 

Ireatianu:)

any comment made is just my humble opinion....and what do i know:?: :)

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