foxy v abbey

[clarion48]

Hi everyone,

 

This is my very first post with CAG. I am currently in process of taking Abbey to court. They owe me £4,000 in unlawful bank charges.

 

I am at the stage of having received the same letter FOXY quotes in #16 - that the AQ has been dispensed with. Not sure whether to follow the suggestion quoted on another thread to send a letter to Abbey or yet another thread that suggests sending in my Draft Order without the AQ, which may speed up the process? Or, should I just wait on the court?

 

Any suggestions at this stage, greatly appreciated.

[FOXYLADY1970]

Hi everybody just quick update.

 

Saturday I received at letter back from the court.

 

NOTICE OF ALLOCATIONS TO THE SMALL CLAIMS TRACK (HEARING)

 

District judge ................ has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaires filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track.

 

The hearing of the claim will take place on a date to be fixed at ........... County Court and should take no longer than 30 mins.

 

The court must be informed immediately if the case is settled by agreement before the hearing date.

 

1. The parties shall by 4.00pm on the 14th May 2007 send to each other statements of the evidence of any witnesses of fact they intend to relying upon at the trial of this matter and shall append to those statements any documents they intend relying upon.

 

2. The parties shall co-operate to prepare a bundle of documents for use at the trial such bundle to include the statements referred to above.

 

3. Each party shall prepare a skeleton argument and that shall be included in the bundle referred to above.

 

4. The claimant shall lodge a copy of the bundle at court by 4th June 2007 and upon lodging of the trial bundle the court will consider the listing of the matter.

 

5. The Claimant shall, when lodging the bundle, inform the court whether the Defendants have complied with this order and if not in what respects they have failed.

 

6. The Defendant shall, at the expiration of the time specified in paragraph 4 above, inform the court whether the Claimants have complied with this order and if not in what respect the Claimant has failed.

 

7. The parties should note that the reference to statements includeds the statements of the parties themselves as well as any other witnesses they intend calling and that the judge may decide not to take into account any documents or evidence not served and lodged as directed above.

 

8. The matter be allocated to the Small Claims Track and listed on a date to be fixed by the court.

 

So what do i need to get together is it just the court bundle or anything else any help would be much appreciated.

 

Foxy

[charleyfarley]

Hey Foxy,

 

You're getting close now,girl!!

 

I've just started putting together my bundle............I spent part of Friday printing off 40-odd pages of the UTCCA, and SOGA etc. That's without 100 pages of statements to photocopy.

 

never mind, it'll all be worth it very soon

[FOXYLADY1970]

hi charleyfarley,

 

Have you had letter back from court or just getting ready.

 

not sure what i need to put in and not to put in confused now

[charleyfarley]

I've not heard anything from anyone since I filed my AQ two weeks ago, but I thought I'd fill my time with getting everything ready.

 

I'm just following Bookworm's basic bundle at the moment. If I was to do it properly, I would have photocopied all the relevant statements first, and then all correspondence, and then I would be able to number the legal pages by computer, but I didn't do that so I'm going to have to handwrite the page numbers onto everything separately, which will be an ache in the bits, but hey-ho, we live and learn!

[FOXYLADY1970]

yes i have been following bookworms court bundle as well but not sure if I will be needing anything else?

 

Hopefully somebody will be able to help me dont want to leave anything out.

 

keep me informed hopefully you will hear next few days as we did file AQ at the same time or within few days.

[charleyfarley]

You'll need to talk to someone who's ahead of us...........sam78, Mad Nick, or Grim Reaper have all just won in the last few days, so why don't you try and pick their brains.

 

Don't forget you can get costs of £9.25 per hour up to about 20 hours work back from Abbey for the bundle prep time.

[GaryH]

Where relevant, you need to comply with each clause of the order;

Hi everybody just quick update.

 

Saturday I received at letter back from the court.

 

NOTICE OF ALLOCATIONS TO THE SMALL CLAIMS TRACK (HEARING)

 

District judge ................ has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaires filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track.

 

The hearing of the claim will take place on a date to be fixed at ........... County Court and should take no longer than 30 mins.

 

The court must be informed immediately if the case is settled by agreement before the hearing date.

 

1. The parties shall by 4.00pm on the 14th May 2007 send to each other statements of the evidence of any witnesses of fact they intend to relying upon at the trial of this matter and shall append to those statements any documents they intend relying upon.

Basic court bundle and witness statement/statement of evidence

2. The parties shall co-operate to prepare a bundle of documents for use at the trial such bundle to include the statements referred to above.

Not sure how you can cooperate with Abbey, but you can try. Send a letter reqesting their cooperation pursuant to the terms of the courts order. They probably won't reply, which will make them look bad and you good in the eyes of the court.

3. Each party shall prepare a skeleton argument and that shall be included in the bundle referred to above.

A skeleton argument is a list/summary of the main points of your arguments which you would present if it got to court.

4. The claimant shall lodge a copy of the bundle at court by 4th June 2007 and upon lodging of the trial bundle the court will consider the listing of the matter.

Self explanitory

5. The Claimant shall, when lodging the bundle, inform the court whether the Defendants have complied with this order and if not in what respects they have failed.

This gives you a good opportunity to tell the court about Abbey's stubbornness and uncooperative attitude.

6. The Defendant shall, at the expiration of the time specified in paragraph 4 above, inform the court whether the Claimants have complied with this order and if not in what respect the Claimant has failed.

Make sure you comply with your part of the order and rest assured Abbey will not comply with this clause.

7. The parties should note that the reference to statements includeds the statements of the parties themselves as well as any other witnesses they intend calling and that the judge may decide not to take into account any documents or evidence not served and lodged as directed above.

The only witness is you - so you only need your own statement as per clause 1.

8. The matter be allocated to the Small Claims Track and listed on a date to be fixed by the court.

 

So what do i need to get together is it just the court bundle or anything else any help would be much appreciated.

 

Foxy

[FOXYLADY1970]

Hi gary still little unsure about the skeleton argument is there anybody that can help me with that one?

[Lady E]

Hi Foxy , just read you have got a date through from the Court ,looks like you are almost there. I think Mad Nick/Gary H should be able to help with your skeleton argument NOT that I really believe you will get to court . Good luck you are nearly there .

[charleyfarley]

Hi Foxy

 

page 5 post #100

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bcard-woolwich-successes/30300-bong-barclaycard-5.html

[FOXYLADY1970]

Hi Noobrider Can You Help Me With My Court Bundle Little Confused As What I Need To Put Into It.

 

Is There A Draft Letter That I Should Attach When I Send The Bundle To Abbey Before The 14th May To See If They Want To Settle And Should I Write To Let Them Know I Will Adding The Cost Of Preparing My Bundle

 

Your Help Would Be Appriciated.

[noobrider]

Hi Foxy, OK here goes...long post

 

Covering letter I sent to both court and Abbey...address to suit

 

Mr Noobrider

The street

somewhere

Bradford

postcode

[email protected]

Tel: mobile number

The Court Office 18th January 2007

Bradford County Court

The Law Courts

Exchange Square

Drake Street

Bradford

BD1 1JA

 

Delivered by hand

 

RE Noobrider v Abbey National Case No 6QZ 69704

 

STATEMENT OF EVIDENCE

 

Dear Sir Madam

 

Please find enclosed the statement of evidence and documentation to be relied upon in the above quoted case as per the general form of judgement or order dated 11th January 2007. A copy of the statement of evidence and documentation was delivered to the defendant on the 15th January 2007 and proof of delivery and confirmation of receipt has been made.

 

It is the claimants understanding that the defendant has until 29th January to respond with their own statement of evidence and documentation, otherwise the defence will be struck out without further order. The claimant will therefore apply for judgement on the 30th January 2007.

 

Should you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Then download the zipfile in the court bundle templates library.

essentially most of the documentation is your spreadsheet, all correspondence to and from the bank plus a copy of every statement that has a charge on it with all the charges highlighted. Then use the dunlop case as a precedent demonstrating the contract law and a couple of other included in there.I also believe there are a few new bits of evidence that you can use like the BBC investigation and possibly the whistleblower stuff.

 

basically once Abbey receive this bundle of documents they will start to talk and take you seriously.

 

Just remember to use the front sheet which is a contents page. Number every page in order and then add the page numbers to and from in the contents section.

 

Best of luck

[FOXYLADY1970]

Hi Noobrider,

 

Many Thanks For That Going To Start Putting Everything Together Tonight Should I Send Mine To Abbey When I Am Done Or Wait Until Nearer The Date Order Say?

 

It Says On My Order That I Do Not Have To Send Copy To Court Until The 4th June?

 

Do You Have A Skeleton Argument That I Can Look At?

[noobrider]

does it also say that you have to send it to Abbey within the same time period or within 14 days of sending to court? Cant hurt to get it in early, once its sent its sent. I think there is a skeleton argument in the templates section. Afraid I haven't kept and electronic version of mine...got a new PC with my winnings lol

[FOXYLADY1970]

No My Order Is On (27) Myselfs And Abbey Must Send Statements Of The Evidence Of Any Witnesses Of Fact They Intend To Rely Upon By The 14th May.

 

The Court Want A Copy By The 4th June

 

I Take It If I Do Not Hear From Abbey By This Date I Can Let The Court Know Refering To 5 Of The Court Order.

[FOXYLADY1970]

Does Anybody Have A Skeleton Argument Template I Can Look At?

 

Please Advise If You Have.

 

Many Thanks

 

[Mad Nick]

Hi, I ended up thinking that a Skeleton Argument was just a half page summary of your claim - to help the Judge understand your claim without wading through 200 pages. Here's what I put in my bundle:

 

SKELETON ARGUMENT BY THE CLAIMANT

1. The Claimant has a Bank account XXXXXX ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened in about XXXX.

2. The Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also levied overdraft interest on the charges once applied.

3. The Claimant submits that

a) the Defendant’s default charges are grossly disproportionate to any actual loss arising from a breach of contract and are therefore not a genuine pre-estimate of loss. As such, the charges are unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, the Unfair Contracts (Terms) Act 1977, and the common law; and

b) the consequential overdraft interest levied on the charges by the Defendant is invalid as it arises from the mistake of law at 3a above.

4. The Defendant has declined all the Claimant’s requests for it to justify that its default charges are proportionate and based on a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

5. The Claimant is therefore claiming repayment of the default charges and [whatever form of interest you are claiming : O/D interest, SI, CI]

 

But I also included in my bundle an 8 page Witness Statement which was effectively the N1 POC but fleshed out. It was going to be the narrative flow of argument which I would have gone through in court. HTH. Regards, Mad Nick

 

 

 

[Villafan]

Hi Foxy,

 

Thanks for asking all the questions you've asked today....they're very relevant to my claim too!!

 

My Order was:

 

- allocated to SCT

- exchange witness statements by 4pm 17.5.07

- lodge with Court by 4pm on 31.05.07 bundle comprising:

(a) witness statement

(b) documents upon which they rely

© any case summary or skeleton argument with copies of authorities referred to

- matter listed for Pre-Trial Review on 12.6.07 at 10.30am. If either party fails to attend Judgment may be given in their absence.

 

 

Have you started your bundle yet? At what point are Abbey likely to try & settle - is it usually before the bundle is submitted or after?

 

Villafan

[FOXYLADY1970]

hi villafan

 

seems so real now got lots to do been doing my bundle tonight yours looks little like mine but think i may have little more to do than you strange really as statement of evidence and witness statements etc all seem to say the same sort of stuff i also have to do a skeleton argument.

 

just keep a eye on my threads as im not afraid to ask for help if im unsure about something best to get it right.

 

keep me posted

[noobrider]

unfortunately it does seem a bit of a waste as once received by Abbey thats usually the trigger to negotiate. The bundle will never see its day in court. I would definately get your bundle in asap though as you only have until the 14 may to get it to abbey. I would expect a call shortly

[FOXYLADY1970]

hi mad nick thanks for help with skeleton argument i do have to supply a witness statement and statement of evidence as well i understand so got lots of paper to sort out will ask if i need any more help so please keep looking on my threads

 

and thanks for your help/support

[FOXYLADY1970]

cheers noobrider for your help and support just little real now sitting at computer now doing all the paperwork then will get hubby to photocopy at work as he works nights so will give him something to do.

 

do you think they will settle even though a date has not been set for the hearing ?

[noobrider]

yes because they will be in breach if they do not submit their own documents in time. Essentially its a court order which is as good as a judgement

[FOXYLADY1970]

cool I understand now thanks for that.

 

I know im not claiming as much as some of you on this site but every little helps and I could do with a bit of luck on my side both my brother and sister have won there cases without having to take bank to courts brother got 8,500 and sister got 4,000 no hassle at all both bank with natwest.

seems to be abby that are the pain.