Capital One vs My Mum!

[PriorityOne]

ok well ive had no updates apart from yesterday, capital one charged my mum £12 in a late payment fee, but still have not given me the response they said they would (although its not been 4 weeks yet)

 

so do i wait for their reponse? or do i send an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) now (because there may be more charges)

 

any help appreciated.

 

I would be inclined to wait Kenny. If there is no CCA, then the account is unenforceable. If they find one, send the SAR then.... claiming the unlawful charges will then bring the outstanding amount down.

 

[diskmandave]

Just a quicky from me, the scan looks quite unreadable, is the paper copy any better than the scan?

 

Reason I ask is, under the Consumer Credit (Cancellations Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

(Section 1), copies of documents must be clearly legible as well as a whole host of other stuff.

 

Regards, Dave.

[InKogneeToh]

ok well use the letter on the other page i sent, no doubt youll get the same stalling tactic letter i got

 

watch this thread, im sure theyll get back to me soon!

 

Hi Kenny

 

Just wait for them to comply with your request (or not!)

 

Don't worry about the charges - these can be claimed back anyway. Tell your mum she has to be brave!

 

Regards, Pam

[kennyparkroad]

Update please help!

 

got a letter from capital one regarding the letter i sent them saying it wasnt an proper agreement.

 

 

"Thank you for your patience while i investigated your complaint. I understand you havent recieved a reply to your previous letter and im sorry for nay (yes they put NAY) inconvenience this has caused.

 

Ive looked into this for you and unfrotunately we havent received your letter of 1 march, however the agreement you refer to in your letter was included with my letter of 20 February and as you are aware the terms and conditions for your account were sent seperately.

 

Im sorry if you feel the agreement is unenforceable but as we've sent you the information youve requested, the agreement is enforceable. Im afriad if you fail to keep up with your payments your account will incur charges and late marks may be recorded on your credit file.

 

Financial regulations require me to send you a final written response, if im unable to help any further. If you remain unhappy with my decision, you can refer your complaint to the Financial Ombydsman within the next 6 months.

 

Their details are in the leaflet ive included and this is my final response to this matter, which they'll ask for.

 

I hope ive explained things clearly and we can put this behding us and move forward from here.

 

 

 

 

 

Thats the letter they sent,which is hand signed, basically they are saying what they sent me has complied with my CCA which INKOGNEETOH has said isnt.

 

so where do i go from here?

 

and as you guys know, they have already put 1 charge on my account.

 

 

any help appreicated

 

my mum trusts me (ok she trusts you guys more lol)

 

but i have said no matter what happens, as a result if they dont write it off, ill take on the bills, as she is nearly financially crippled.

[PriorityOne]

Update please help!

 

got a letter from capital one regarding the letter i sent them saying it wasnt an proper agreement.

 

 

"Thank you for your patience while i investigated your complaint. I understand you havent recieved a reply to your previous letter and im sorry for nay (yes they put NAY) inconvenience this has caused.

 

Ive looked into this for you and unfrotunately we havent received your letter of 1 march, however the agreement you refer to in your letter was included with my letter of 20 February and as you are aware the terms and conditions for your account were sent seperately.

 

Im sorry if you feel the agreement is unenforceable but as we've sent you the information youve requested, the agreement is enforceable.

 

They don't seem to have any knowledge of what makes an Agreement enforceable.... and seem to be hoping that you don't either.

Im afriad if you fail to keep up with your payments your account will incur charges and late marks may be recorded on your credit file.

 

.... and are piling on some pressure in the hope that you will pay up.

 

Financial regulations require me to send you a final written response, if im unable to help any further. If you remain unhappy with my decision, you can refer your complaint to the Financial Ombydsman within the next 6 months.

 

Their details are in the leaflet ive included and this is my final response to this matter, which they'll ask for.

 

Repeated mentioning of the word "final"....

 

I hope ive explained things clearly and we can put this behding us and move forward from here.

 

.... in the hope that you will give up, believing that it is.

 

 

 

However...

 

The 1st document that they sent you contained no credit limit, no interest rate or frequency of payments.

 

The 2nd document was unsigned and undated.... stating that you would be notified of the credit limit.

 

Therefore, what is there to enforce ? They have so far failed to provide you with any details regarding the actual amount of credit. In fact, there seem to no figures at all.

 

[InKogneeToh]

However...

 

The 1st document that they sent you contained no credit limit, no interest rate or frequency of payments.

 

The 2nd document was unsigned and undated.... stating that you would be notified of the credit limit.

 

Therefore, what is there to enforce ? They have so far failed to provide you with any details regarding the actual amount of credit. In fact, there seem to no figures at all.

 

 

Hi

 

For a credit card agreement, it is acceptable to use a statement like 'we will determine the credit limit and notify you'. This satisfies the 'credit limit' requirement. Also, I notice that the T&Cs give a range of APR's/interest rates depending on the actual credit limit allowed. I think this is acceptable also. But these 'prescribed terms' must be in the signature document. If CapOne can't show that those T&Cs where part of the actual document (which can consist of more than one page) that was signed, then the agreement will be unenforceable.

 

Regards, Pam

[PriorityOne]

For a credit card agreement, it is acceptable to use a statement like 'we will determine the credit limit and notify you'. This satisfies the 'credit limit' requirement.

 

Hi Pam,

 

They would need to satisfy it with proper figures in a court though.... so surely it would make sense for them to satisfy this requirement when asked to do so ?.... thus saving time. money, etc. in going to court.

 

[gerryb2]

I have a case before the Court at the moment so I will let you know what Court thinks is valid agreement in due course. I think your in good hands with advice given so far by inkogneetoh and priorityone

 

PS Pam may I PM you for your opinion on something

[InKogneeToh]

Hi Pam,

 

They would need to satisfy it with proper figures in a court though.... so surely it would make sense for them to satisfy this requirement when asked to do so ?.... thus saving time. money, etc. in going to court.

 

 

Hi

 

I am not sure what you mean by 'satisfy it with proper figures in a court'. I'm sure that the credit limit WAS subsequently set for this account and notified to Kenny's mum, and so could be shown in court, but the agreement itself does NOT have to state the limit as a sum of money.

 

Regards, Pam

[kennyparkroad]

hi guys

 

to clarify i know ive scanned the docs of the agreement, but here is what the agreement is typed out like

 

hope this helps

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

CREDIT CARD AGREEMENT

 

CREDIT AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

 

Please issue to me a Capital One Credit Card and PIN. I confirm that all the information i have given is true and complete. I understand that this information will be checked with fraud prevention agencies and if i give you flase or inaccurate information and you suspect fraud, you will record this. I authorise capital one to search the files of any credit reference agency agency (actually in there twice) for my application and to help you manage m account. The credit reference agencies will record details of Capital Ones search and your application. Information held about you by the credit reference agencies may already be linked to records relating to one or more people whom you have a financial association. For any searches Capital One makes you may be treated as linked to them and you will be assessed with reference to their records. We may also add to your record with credit reference agencies details of how you conduct your Capital One account (including defaults)

 

Capital One and other organisations may use and seach these records about you and those whom you are financially linked to:

 

-help make decisions about credit and credit related services such as insurance for me or members of my household.

 

-trace debtors, recover debt, prevent fraud to manage my account.

 

-check my identity to prevent money laundering, unless we are satisfied with your identity.

 

Fraud prevention agency records will also be shared with other organisations to manage insurance policies and help make decisions on motor, household, credit, life and other insurance proposals and insurance claims for me and members of my household. The credit reference agencies and fraud prevention agencies will also use the records for statistical analysis about credit and fraud.

 

I have read the terms and conditions setting out the agreement with capital one and if my application is accepted, i agree to be bound by these terms and conditions, as amended from time to time. I am over 18 years of age.

 

Credit Scoring: Capital one uses a technique known as "credit scoring" in deciding whether or not to open an account in your name and if so, what credit limit you will be given. Capital One will also use this technique throughout the lifetime of thie Agreement to assess your credit limit and the interest rate and other charges to be applied to your account, all of which may be varied.

 

Your information and marketing Important, please read the "use of information" overleaf (section 23 of the agreement) (THERE IS NOTHING OVERLEAF) which sets out how your information may be used. By signing this application, you agree that information about you may be used like this, regarldess of whether or not your application is accepted, One of the ways your information will be used is to send you information or phone you about other products and services offered by Capital One or other companies. Your name, address and phone number may be given to those companies for that purpose. If you do not wish to to recieve marketing material and you have not already adivised us, please write to (address)

 

This is a Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms.

 

 

It also has a right to cancel section,

 

so is this a CCA agreement?

 

 

 

The terms and conditions were on a seperate page, no sigs on it, but did have

 

 

section 1 - Monthy Statements

 

section 2 - Financial and Related particulars (a table of APRs, )

 

THanks

[kennyparkroad]

bump

[PriorityOne]

It needs to be signed by both parties to be enforceable in court Kenny. Wait and see what the others think before stressing.....

 

[kennyparkroad]

it is signed by both parties PO, i never ever stated it wasnt lol

[PriorityOne]

it is signed by both parties PO, i never ever stated it wasnt lol

 

I meant the copy that's been sent to you. If they have not provided a signed copy for you... then it's unlikely (but not impossible) that they will produce one in court..... and by "both parties", I meant signed by you/Mum & also signed by them... not just signed by you and Mum, with nothing from them.... to avoid any confusion.

 

[kennyparkroad]

the copy they sent has both my mums signature and their squiggle (cap ones)

 

my original reasons for contesting it was that INKOGNEETOH didnt think all the prescribed terms were there, the signatures, are most definately there.

[PriorityOne]

Ok.... in that case, you need to wait for InkogNeetoh's opinion on it.

 

[kennyparkroad]

i have written back asking for both sides of the "alleged agreement" and reminded them that until they do it they are actiing outwith accordance to the OFT guidlines

 

will see what they say.

[kennyparkroad]

they have adviced me there is only one side so i wrote back stating the prescribed terms were not on it and went to a solicitor

 

he agreed it was unenforceable and wrote me a letter to that effect, so i sent off a letter to them including this (£75 compared to £2000) and stating that because there was no properly executed agreement which has now been verified by a solicitor, there is no agreement and therefore the debt is unenforceable

 

i will scan my letter and the solicitors letter later.

 

i have since got the following letter.

 

 

Dear KPR Mum.

 

Following your recent correspondance we have been advised by our legal department to take the commercial decision not to persue this matter.

 

We can now confirm the balance of this account is £0.00.

 

We hope this concludes all matters between us.

 

so all im going to do now is send this letter off to Experian, asking them to remove details and also ask CAP one to do the same

 

so i have to say a BIG THANKYOU to everyone thats helped me.

 

that means i have now had £2000 written off from littlewoods for myself and £2000 on my mums credit card written off also.

 

i am so happy right now! i only have one debt left to fight (see thread IN NEED OF MAJOR HELP)

 

after that i should be clear! and no better for next time!

[PriorityOne]

FANTASTIC !!!

:D :D

[babybear39]

CONGRATS kennyparkroad

 

Have a great weekend, best wishes,

 

BB

[meg&mog]

Well done kennypark

 

Great News

[kennyparkroad]

thanks again guys donation on its way! weeee heeeee!

[stadium_arcadium]

This is great news Kenny!! Well done and congrats to you and your mum !!