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    • Thank you Bankfodder.  I used the term frustrated agreement purely based on my own research and what I found on the Govt's website, especially in relation to Covid.  My situation appeared to fit but if it doesn't, it doesn't. The length of time the actual works themselves will take is not written into the agreement but I was told 2 weeks, they are doing the interior ceiling and electrics too. I was prepared to accept the new date of 7th Dec until I was told I couldn't speak to their Director for two weeks and then found out that they haven't applied for building regulations yet, this is something else they are doing on my behalf.  As they can't order anything until they have the regs through I can't see how the roof is in the process of being made (which is what they keep claiming). I contacted the CAB as I wanted this wrapped up for the weekend and had two conflicting recommendations on this forum.  One to just let the credit card company handle things and others saying I must give more time.  I'm not complaining, am grateful for advice - just getting more and more confused as to what I can/can't do. If I can avoid it at all I would rather not go through another 6 weeks of this, waiting for them to prove that they can't manage the Dec.date.  By that stage it could well be feasible that the roof is in the manufacturing stage, where as at the moment it can't be, which would further complicate things. Based on all this and what the CAB said I sent the email below last night and received Homeview's response this morning. If it came to it that I retracted what I've said and allowed them to go ahead for 7th Dec. and they didn't manage that date, wouldn't it be the credit card company that would recover the deposit - not me?  BTW I raised a dispute with Capital One last night. Email.pdf
    • oh dear  i think you are in for a big shock   i doubt very much the loan is settled there will be £100's in unlawful fees i bet   we have numerous threads here about them in 2016 they were residing at   PO Box 1044 ipswich IP1 9YA   i would be sending them an SAR  don't ever ring them.   have you checked your deeds online recently? check they are on there. and has the loan ever been subject to legal action?   if not that would be a rare thing to us.   https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-8889411648654839:3134625398&q=Skye Loans&oq=Skye Loans&gs_l=partner-generic.12...0.0.1.951169.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.csems%2Cnrl%3D13...0.0....34.partner-generic..1.0.0.1dXrS2w9t2c    
    • doesn't say will anything. read it properly and carefully.   only the owner of a debt can get one of the many fake/tame paperwork only solicitors to issue any proceedings and they would have to abide by the courts pre action protocol of 30  days letter first!   as it's owner...i can try and instruct my dog to sit, if it does is a totally different matter. if my neighbour, who doesn't own my dog, tries it, it would ignore them.   the bottom line is there is nothing anyone can do to you. gyms don't do court gym debts don't appear on credit files.   any DCA they might get to write to you ARE NOT BAILIFFS any a DCA has ZERO legal powers on any debt, no matter what it's type.   dx    
    • This letter arrived in the post today, please advise how to proceed. I know the forums say they won't action but am very worried about this
    • go save his bacon clint and put him right...   dx  
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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Hi all,

 

I'm in the process of claiming against the RBOS for unfair bank charges. I suspect it will be around £150-200 but i'm unsure of when the charges were exactly. I've had a look at the template for requesting the list of charges from the bank. Could someone who has already started proceedings against them let me know if the following is the correct address to send the letter to:

 

THE ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND GROUP PLC

36 ST ANDREW SQUARE

EDINBURGH

EH2 2YB

 

Secondly the £10 payment necessary can that be sent as a cheque payable to The Royal Bank of Scotland Group PLC? Lastly i'm not too sure how long i've been with my bank I think it's around 5 years but should I put the date as 6 years back from the date of the letter just to make sure?

 

Thanks

Chris

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Hi Chris,

 

Not 100% sure of the address - it is suggested that you send all correspondence to your local branch. Internal processes will ensure that it gets to the right department.

 

The cheque is fine like that, and yes, it is best to ask for a full disclosure for the length of your account, six years, or whichever is the longer.

 

Good luck - keep us posted.

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Hi everyone,

 

Luckily i've managed to dig out all of my past bank statements I didnt know i'd kept which is good news. I've looked through them and found about 10 charges. A few of these are £30 bounced D/D fines which i'm aware I can ask to be refunded. The others are £10 charges for going over my overdraft limit and show up on my account as service charges are these claimable as well?

 

Quick edit to add. I've worked out the total of the bank charges which comes to £230. Using the provided spreadsheet it also calculated an additional £32.40 in interest. Do I include this interest in the preliminary approach letter? I wasn't too sure what to do after reading the step by step instructions.

 

Thanks Again

Chris

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No, the 8% can only be added when the claim goes to court.

Regarding the service charge, it depends exactly what its for. To my knowledge, the banks can legally make a charge for providing a 'service', but not for 'penalties' or 'fines' as in charging for going over your OD or for paying direct debits or cashing cheques when there are insufficient funds.

 

Hope this helps.

  • Confused 2

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First Direct 1 - settled

First Direct 2 - settled

RBS 1 - claim made 8/5/6

RBS 2 - claim made 8/5/6

GE Capital - counter claim 6/5/6

Halifax - settled 31/5/6

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IMO, Paying a Direct Debit - extending your overdraft - is a service. The charge might be high, but it's definitely a service.

 

Returning a direct debit unpaid, however, is not.

Bank of Scotland - £4000+ returned. Scottish resident, scottish accounts, but it's Halifax Bank of Scotland now, so took 'em to court in Halifax. One small claims, one defence filed, one refund of all charges + interest! Done and dusted.

Next - Capital One :D

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All my charges are for either £30 Card Misue or unpaid D/D charges or £10 going over my overdraft limit charges is it ok to claim for those do you think? It's the overdraft charges that really bother me I have no idea how they could possibly justify them why not just charge you an elevated rate of interest while you stay over the limit? makes much more sense to me.

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All the ones you mentioin are claimable. See Daves opinions on OD interest. The amount they charge for the overdraft makes them very rich bankers, without the penalty charges.

 

Hi Richard. The point is you are not paying for their service, they are penalising you for being a naughty customer.

The law states that the charge can only be proportionate to the costs incurred by the bank. So how is a £39 cost for the bank paying a dd (without asking you) when they know you have no funds, making you od by about £3 and then whacking a charge on justified when if you go into a shop to buy something by debit card at £15 when you only have £12 in your account the transaction is declined and there is NO charge? Surely the same scenario? And £39 for a computer generated letter? Some service!!!!!

  • Confused 1

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If you find this site helpful and if you reclaim your charges please donate by clicking the button at the top of the page

 

First Direct 1 - settled

First Direct 2 - settled

RBS 1 - claim made 8/5/6

RBS 2 - claim made 8/5/6

GE Capital - counter claim 6/5/6

Halifax - settled 31/5/6

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All the ones you mentioin are claimable. See Daves opinions on OD interest. The amount they charge for the overdraft makes them very rich bankers, without the penalty charges.

 

Hi Richard. The point is you are not paying for their service, they are penalising you for being a naughty customer.

The law states that the charge can only be proportionate to the costs incurred by the bank. So how is a £39 cost for the bank paying a dd (without asking you) when they know you have no funds, making you od by about £3 and then whacking a charge on justified when if you go into a shop to buy something by debit card at £15 when you only have £12 in your account the transaction is declined and there is NO charge? Surely the same scenario? And £39 for a computer generated letter? Some service!!!!!

 

BoS charge less for paying the item, (except I think that charge also attracted the unauthorised o/d charge) than for returning it; and I agree that all the charges are excessive - I'm merely of the opinion that the returned direct debit charge is a total no-brainer for being illegal, as proving any costs beyond the automated letter is impossible.

 

I'm being nicer to my bank than I should be and not going after the paid item/unauthorised o/d charges. Since it appears to have not paid off, I will be spending this weekend adding up the others and going for the whole lot. I had hoped that I would have a quicker response by going for the utterly indefensible charges.

Bank of Scotland - £4000+ returned. Scottish resident, scottish accounts, but it's Halifax Bank of Scotland now, so took 'em to court in Halifax. One small claims, one defence filed, one refund of all charges + interest! Done and dusted.

Next - Capital One :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

Quick update regarding my claim. Today I recieved the expected reply from my preliminary approach letter from the bank explaining they think the charges are fair etc. There was one part of this letter I wasnt expecting though. Can somone advise whether they think it's still ok to press ahead with a claim and also what steps to take next:

 

"The OFT is presently in contact with us and with seven other major credit card companies to discuss the level of charges on credit cards. It is important that I emphasise these discussions are limited to charges on credit cards only."

 

This still sounds like a standard response to me but I thought i'd check with everyone here first.

 

Thanks

Chris

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Is it a credit card account you are claiming from?

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If you find this site helpful and if you reclaim your charges please donate by clicking the button at the top of the page

 

First Direct 1 - settled

First Direct 2 - settled

RBS 1 - claim made 8/5/6

RBS 2 - claim made 8/5/6

GE Capital - counter claim 6/5/6

Halifax - settled 31/5/6

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see above

If you found this post helpful please click on the scales, top right. Thank you.

 

If you find this site helpful and if you reclaim your charges please donate by clicking the button at the top of the page

 

First Direct 1 - settled

First Direct 2 - settled

RBS 1 - claim made 8/5/6

RBS 2 - claim made 8/5/6

GE Capital - counter claim 6/5/6

Halifax - settled 31/5/6

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this is the oft press report. Tried posting link but wouldn't work.

 

Current credit card default charges unfair

 

OFT sets threshold for intervention

 

68/06 5 April 2006

 

Credit card default charges (see note 1) have generally been set at a significantly higher level than is legally fair, said the OFT today. The OFT estimates that across the industry this has led to unlawful penalty charges currently in excess of 300 million a year.

 

Download Calculating fair default charges in credit card contracts (203 kb).

Download guide for consumers (64 kb).

 

The OFT now expects all credit card issuers to recalculate their default charges in line with the principles set out in a statement published today and to take urgent action where needed to reduce the level of credit card default fees. The industry has until 31 May to respond to the statement. These principles also apply to default charges in other consumer contracts such as those for bank overdrafts, store cards and mortgages.

 

Where credit card default charges are set at more than 12, the OFT will presume that they are unfair, and is likely to challenge the charge unless there are limited, exceptional business factors in play. A default charge is not fair simply because it is below 12. Setting a threshold for intervention is a pragmatic pro-consumer action that is designed to give the industry the opportunity to change its practice without litigation. It is supported by detailed guidance to the industry as to how to reduce the likelihood of public enforcement (see note 2).

 

A default charge should only be used to recover certain limited administrative costs. These may include postage and stationery costs and staff costs and also a proportionate share of the costs of maintaining premises and IT systems necessary to deal with defaults (see note 3). Exceptional business factors which may affect the level of a fair charge may include policies to prevent casual defaults as operated by issuers such as Egg (see note 4).

 

Only a court can finally decide whether a charge is unfair or not. The OFT has today set out a statement of its view of the law. This has not generally been accepted by most of the eight credit card issuers.

 

John Fingleton, OFT Chief Executive, said:

 

'Our statement of principles provides practical guidance to banks which increases their incentives to compete vigorously while protecting consumers from being charged unfair amounts. Our threshold approach is a spur to changes in market practice. We expect credit card issuers to adjust their default fee levels quickly. We have not ruled out future legal action if the market does not respond positively.'

 

NOTES

 

1. These are charges in standard credit card contracts for a failure to pay a minimum payment on the due date, exceeding a credit limit or a failure to honour a payment made.

 

2. This reflects the OFT's duty to target its resources on serious consumer detriment as a priority over cases involving less harm to consumers. Card issuers are required to confirm their response to the OFT statement by 31 May 2006.

 

3. A fair default charge should not exceed a reasonable estimate of certain limited administrative costs which the credit card issuer reasonably expects to incur as a result of default.

 

4. The OFT is not proposing that default fees should be equivalent to the threshold, and a court will certainly not consider that a default fee is fair just because it is below the threshold. Where there are exceptional business factors, so that the presumption that a default charge over 12 is unfair is not applicable, this does not necessarily mean that the current level of the default charge is consistent with the OFT's interpretation of the requirements of unfair contract terms legislation. But for example, where a card issuer has a policy of requiring customers to pay minimum monthly repayments by direct debits, such as that operated by Egg, and offers credit cards only to customers that satisfy a relatively high scoring requirement it may be able to set a fair default fee at a level above the threshold.

 

5. The OFT has published a short guide for consumers and consumer advice agencies setting out the principles on which default charges should be calculated. This can be downloaded above.

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First Direct 1 - settled

First Direct 2 - settled

RBS 1 - claim made 8/5/6

RBS 2 - claim made 8/5/6

GE Capital - counter claim 6/5/6

Halifax - settled 31/5/6

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"The OFT is presently in contact with us and with seven other major credit card companies to discuss the level of charges on credit cards. It is important that I emphasise these discussions are limited to charges on credit cards only."

 

This still sounds like a standard response to me but I thought i'd check with everyone here first.

 

This is a totally automated, standard response. Like when the bank writes to you in response to a letter and says it will "deal with your complaint and get back to you within 8 weeks".

 

It means nothing more than the paper it is written on - which unless it is gold leaf, is nothing.

 

Just get on and post your LBA and stop being so pleasant. You are starting to sound like "Tory Boy" - "nice but dim". (that's a joke by the way).

"BA Group. The World's favourite CA Group"

 

HSBC 2 claims amalgamated. £1195. settled in full prior to filing claim.

BARCLAYS settled in full 2 days prior to submission of defence by Barclays

CAP ONE settled in full on day 14 of LBA (£210)

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No, not at all, just that the OFT recommendations in the letter refer to credit card charges (see oft report below) and the oft are only suggesting that the banks follow them at present. Don't worry, and as Don Quixote says, get sending your letters. We'll all be here if you have any problems.

If you found this post helpful please click on the scales, top right. Thank you.

 

If you find this site helpful and if you reclaim your charges please donate by clicking the button at the top of the page

 

First Direct 1 - settled

First Direct 2 - settled

RBS 1 - claim made 8/5/6

RBS 2 - claim made 8/5/6

GE Capital - counter claim 6/5/6

Halifax - settled 31/5/6

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Phew I thought it was just credit cards then and i'd made a fool of myself! Don't worry though i'm determined theres no way they'll get away without giving me a full refund now! I'm just modifying the Letter Before Action template now. I've noticed there are more references to the OFT in that letter should I leave those in?

 

Thanks Again Everyone

Chris

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yes, the templates are fine to use. Good Luck.

If you found this post helpful please click on the scales, top right. Thank you.

 

If you find this site helpful and if you reclaim your charges please donate by clicking the button at the top of the page

 

First Direct 1 - settled

First Direct 2 - settled

RBS 1 - claim made 8/5/6

RBS 2 - claim made 8/5/6

GE Capital - counter claim 6/5/6

Halifax - settled 31/5/6

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There's something I havent thought about before. I've sent off my Letter before action to the bank last week. The problem is i'm a recent graduate from university with an £1800 overdraft. How common is it for a bank to close someones account after making a claim like this because i'm going to have trouble paying off that overdraft thats for sure!

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They can close your account or call your overdraft in .That is why we recommend you open a parachute account.People are starting court action to stop the closure of their accounts so if you do a search of the site you can read more about it.

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When you want to fool the world, tell the truth. :D

Advice & opinions of Janet-M are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any

doubts.

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This is the problem I can't imagine being able to get another account with a big enough overdraft limit especially just being a graduate. Is it true they can't just call it in like that they would have to negotiate a repayment plan? That would probably end up being a blessing in disguise if they did.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Quick update, after i'd sent my LBA I recieved a letter from my branch informing me that my claim had been refered to the banks customer services department. About a week later I recieved a letter from them informing me they were still unwilling to refund the charges and suggested I went to the financial ombudsman with my complaint. So i've decided to take it further and make a court claim. My question is i'm currently on the Money Claim website filing the claim now and it's asking for the defendant's details should I put in the address of my branch or the address of the royal bank of scotlands HQ?

 

Thanks in advance

Chris

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The HQ's in Scotland, MCOL will not accept it. If your branch is in England, use that. If it's in Scotland and so are you, you can't use MCOL, you have to go to your Sheriff's court to file.

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I'm stuck again! I'm filling in the particulars of the claim and struggling a little bit is there anywhere on the website I can find a guide on how to fill this part in?

 

Also the part on the website where it asks you to specify the daily rate of interest on the charges what would that be?

 

Thanks

Chris

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Right this is what i've come up with using one of the templates from this website:

 

"The claimant has a contract with the defendant from 08/02 which was conducted on their standard terms and conditions. The claimant claims the return of £230 levied by the defendant in the way of charges. The charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Further,as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair(Contracts) Terms Act 1977s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regs 1999,Para 8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty, they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. The defendant has been asked to justify the charges but they have declined to do so. The claimant claims interest under s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 28/07/03 to 17/06/06 of £33.92 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.05."

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