Cabot & CCA request

[craig2280]

Hi

 

I sent of a CCA request regarding a default Kings Hill No1 and placed on my credit file related to a Monument credit card.

I received a letter today from Cabot Financial that states the following:

 

"I can confirm that we are not the originator of the debts and are reliant on the retrieval of the information from each of the creditors. Under the Credit Consumer Act 1974 Sections 77 and 78 it states that the creditor should supply information with an appointed time (initially 12 days then a further 30 days). Cabot has sought advice from Trading Standards who have confirmed this does not apply to us, as we are not the "creditor" and the accounts have defaulted.

 

Although we anticipate a reply within the next 21 days, it can take up to 8 to 10 weeks if the information we require has been archived".

 

Is this correct? The default on my file states Kings Hill No1, and I was told via a telephone call that Cabot Financial now owns the debt.

 

Any advice as to my next step would be greatly appreciated.

[DanP1973]

No its bollox!

 

Write back to them stating

 

"You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974."

[Seahorse]

You WILL get the runaround from them, but persevere anyway.

 

The story is, Kings Hill (No 1) Limited became Cabot Financial (UK) Limited on 15 January this year. They are the owner of any debt they might claim they are awed, having bought your account from Monument in a great big bundle of thousands of similar accounts.

 

Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited are authorised by Cabot Financial (UK) Limited to administer their accounts.

 

Personally, I've SAR'd both CF (UK) Ltd AND CF (Europe) Ltd, although I expect that (UK) will reply that they don't hold any data (In which case how can they pass on data to (Europe) and the credit reference agancies?)

 

No doubt you'll already be reading the other Cabot threads, and you'll find that the Mods have now very kindly opened a Cabot sub forum to group everyone together for ease of use.

 

You might like to ask yourself who authorised Cabot Financial (UK) Limted to share your data with Cabot Finacial (Europe) Limited.

[craig2280]

Well after an 8 week wait Mr Willem Wellinghoff has finally come up with what he states is a signed credit agreement, and copies of the notice of assignment for the alledged Monument debt they bought.

 

His letter makes interesting reading, and if it wasnt for all the helpful info from all the "Caboteers" I would just carry on paying.

 

Firstly, the signed credit agreement he has sent is my initial application in the form of a reply card. It is not signed by anyone from Monument and does not have the terms and conditions with it.

 

He states the following:

 

"I have enclosed a copy of your credit agreement, however please be advised that it is not Cabot's obligation under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to supply you with a copy of your credit agreement as Cabot is not the creditor.."

 

Mr Wellinghoff has also helpfully provided copies of the notice of assignment sent when the "account" was sold on the 20th Sept 2005. The letter from Monument (not dated) states:

 

"On 20th September 2005, your account was sold to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, part of the Cabot Financial Group".

 

Now, as this is meant to be a copy of the notice of assignment sent is Sept 2005, how have they managed to mention Cabot Financial (UK) Limited? I didnt think this company existed until 15th Jan 07? Surely it should have stated Kings Hill No1 Limited?

 

Willem also states:

 

"We previously provided you with a Notice of Assignment, also known as a Hello Letter, which has again been enclosed for your reference".

 

I have never received a "Hello Letter" from Cabot, and the copy Willem has sent is a system generated letter which he has forgot to add my details too! Where my address should be it has:

 

>>RA_SURNAME>>

>

 

The reference stated reads:

 

Cabot Ref No: >

Account Type:>

Account No:>

 

and the letter itself goes onto state:

 

Dear >>

 

The account you held with > was purchased by the Cabot Financial Group.

The outstanding balance is currently £.

 

This Notice of Assignment is also dated 25th April 2007!!!

 

This is all very amusing if it wasnt so annoying. Is Mr Wellinghoff serious? Any advice as to what I should do now what be greatly appreciated!

[Seahorse]

Oh, this is just gold dust!!!! Now they can even be bothered checking their templates are referenced to an account before hitting the PRINT button. And don't even check the results once they've been spat out of the printer.

 

I think it's time Ken seriously had a meeting with his staff about their attitude to their work. Seems like some people just couldn't care less any more. Or do we have a subtle friend in there sabotaging their efforts? Hmmmmm.

 

Anyway, as they have taken considerably longer than the time allowed to comply, I think it's now time to send them a letter telling them that you consider them to be in criminal default. I'm currently looking over some recent stuff from our good pal Richard Spud, and I'm hoping to have a letter put together for my own use by the end of today, based on his wisdom. If you want to wait, you'll be more than welcome to have a look to see if it would be of any use to you too.

 

Oh, and I'd ask for my £1 back. I have.

[Sve]

I'm very interested in this (letters you will come up with) as I might (fingers crossed) have the need to use one next week. I was going to start a thread about templates but Mr. Seahorse is one step ahead as usual...

[craig2280]

Thank you Seahorse. It is a bit of a surprise that our mate Mr Wellinghoff has made such simple mistakes.

My one worry with Willems letter is that I have been making regular monthly payments to Cabot to get them off my back (before I found this forum), and because of this he states, I have admitted the debt to Cabot.

Any thoughts on this?

[Seahorse]

You've been making payments to Cabot because of their threatening and intimidatory tactics in attempting to recover a disputed debt, not because you acknowledge that they have any right to collect. You are now recently, albeit belatedly, aware of the law regarding the CCA 1974, and are now reasonably asking them to prove their claim.

 

I've put a draft together on my thread, that I intend to get off to them once folks have had a chance to rip it apart. You'll find it at...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-779972.html

 

Any comments bad or otherwise are more than welcome.

[craig2280]

Received the following email from our friend Mr Wellinghoff this morning:

 

Dear Mr........

Thank you for your e-mail which I received on 28 April 2007.

I regret that you have felt the need to write to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited (“Cabot”) again and that you were not satisfied with my substantive and clear response to your letter. I will consider your further comments in due course and will provide you with my response. However, I must state that Cabot does not agree with your interpretation and respectfully advise you that you are misadvised in respect of the issues involved with the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

If you wish to discuss this matter with me by telephone then please do not hesitate to contact me on the number below.

Kind regards

Willem Wellinghoff

When he says "you are misadvised in respect of issues in the Consumer Credit Act 1974" do you think he means this forum?

[Sve]

When he says "you are misadvised in respect of issues in the Consumer Credit Act 1974" do you think he means this forum?

 

I bet he does mean exactly this forum!

[Donel261]

Out of interest, has anyone took him up on the offer and called him to discuss it further?

[tbern123]

Out of interest, has anyone took him up on the offer and called him to discuss it further?

 

 

Never been asked to call him. Personally, I wouldn't, keep everything in writing.

 

If he is half as good as he should be, he will gain more from any telephone conversation then yiou. I think it is more like a fact finding exercise and an excuse to dent your confidence

 

But hey, that is just my untrusting opinion of Cabot

[shieldblaster]

Hi

 

Please forgive me for hi-jacking this thread but i have only just come across this wonderful forum (the info and help here is mind blowing!!) after googling for debt advice and i find i am in pretty much the same position as craig in that i have had Cabot on my back about an outstanding debt from Monument. On initially being contacted by Cabot i did make an offer of payment but having recently checked my Experian credit file i find i have a default against me from cabot. Nothing new about that i guess except that i did offer a regular payment and have kept to it. Having found out about the default i thought it might be interesting to see if i could get it removed because of the fact that it is regularly being paid off so in trying to find out where to start i found a template which i used to cca cabot to which they replied that they need to contact monument which could take weeks if the records our archived etc etc. (i have since found similar letters on this site).

 

Now to my point Having read the excellent advice on this site am i right in thinking that they have not only breached the 12 day rule (i cca'd them on the 22 March 2007) but also the 30 day rule which now makes them commiting a criminal act and the debt is now legally unenforceable?

 

If my thinking is right and that is the case where i am i best going from here? I really just want the default removed but i'm aware from reading this site that that's not easy and i need to 'load my guns' in the right order and would be grateful for any advice on the way forward

 

I am sure there is loads more i want to ask but my brain is beginning to sieze up so perhaps you could help me with what i have explained so far (if it makes sense!)

 

Many thanks for your help. You people are a Godsend to people with money troubles.. and apologies once again to craig for butting in in his thread

[craig2280]

No problems Shieldblaster, butt away!!

 

I think you will find Cabots response to the CCA is that the Consumer Credit Act, or parts of it do not apply to them.

[shieldblaster]

Thanks Craig! I have now started my own thread as per the advice on here but i wish you well with your dispute with Cabot!

[craig2280]

Well after over 2 weeks of waiting for a reply from Mr Wellinghoff to my concerns regarding the lack of credit agreement (only sent reply card application), and Cabot sending dodgy paper work I am going to start legal proceedings.

 

I want to claim back the £620 paid to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited as they have not produced the valid credit agreement, and I want the default registered by Kings Hill No1 Limited removed, as without the credit agreement they have no authority to process my data. I also want compensation for processing data without consent.

 

The payments were "collected" by Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited but the default was registered by Kings Hill No1 Limited.

 

Could someone help with the particulars of claim?

 

Also which company do I go after? Cabot Europe or Cabot UK?

[InKogneeToh]

 

 

 

Mr Wellinghoff has also helpfully provided copies of the notice of assignment sent when the "account" was sold on the 20th Sept 2005. The letter from Monument (not dated) states:

 

"On 20th September 2005, your account was sold to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, part of the Cabot Financial Group".

 

Now, as this is meant to be a copy of the notice of assignment sent is Sept 2005, how have they managed to mention Cabot Financial (UK) Limited? I didnt think this company existed until 15th Jan 07? Surely it should have stated Kings Hill No1 Limited?

 

 

Hi

 

Cabot have their own supply of various creditor's headed paper and print off these 'notices of assignment' as and when the need arises.

 

This 'notice' was obviously freshly printed in response to your request because, as you say, it states that the debt was sold to CF (UK) Ltd, when in fact it was sold to Kings Hill (who were only renamed CF (UK) Ltd on 15 Jan 07!)

 

Oh what a tangled web we weave........!!!

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

Hi

 

Your claim would be against Cabot UK, as the owner of the debt.

 

I have had a further thought about the issue of the default.

 

Cabot have now sent you a copy of the 'assignment notice' in which they state that the debt was purchased by CF(Uk)Ltd (incorrect we know) but this is what they have put IN WRITING.

 

So, if, as the notice of assignment actually implies, CF(UK)Ltd has always been the owner of the debt, and CF(Europe) the appointed agents, then what authority can they possibly show for an entirely different company (Kings Hill) to have registered a default against you?

 

Of course, we all know that this is because it was Kings Hill that actually bought the debt (and was therefore the assignee) BUT their notice of assignment to you, which is required to make an assignment absolute, doesn't say that does it?

 

You could use this notice to your advantage if you were to pursue an argument based on this. If they then wanted to argue that it was actually KIngs Hill, that bought the debt, this would make the notice of assignment invalid!

 

Hmmm! - WW wedged between a rock and a hard place! A pleasing notion!

 

Regards, Pam

[craig2280]

Thanks for the brain storming Pam.

 

Do you suggest I use this Notice of Assignment to get the default removed direct with the credit reference agencies?

 

I am still waiting for a response from Cabot Towers. Seems after pointing out their obvious cock-ups our friend Willem has gone all quiet.

[InKogneeToh]

Hi

 

The CRA's dance to the creditors' tunes and always say that they have to check with their client(s) first before removing or amending any of our data!

 

I would write to Cabot and argue, as I have suggested above, that since the debt was purchased by CF(UK) Ltd, Kings Hill had no authority to process your data. If they then respond with 'but it was Kings Hill who bought the debt' then you can point out the 'little problem' with the notice!

 

I suggest you read Richard Spud's excellent posts regarding the assignment of debts - procedure/legal status etc.

 

Regards, Pam