HFO Services pressuring me.

[welshmammy]

Hi, I am new to the forum. I got into financial difficulties about 2 years ago, with two barclaycards. At this point I was unmarried. I took out an arrangement with Payplan, which I have been paying by standing order ever since.

My neighbours informed me over a week ago that two gentlemen where knocking my neighbours doors asking if I still lived at my premises. I was immediately concerned and spoke to payplan, to see if there was any problem with my arrangement, they informed me there was not (my immediate thought was bailiffs).

Payplan put my mind at ease. Two days later a gentleman came to my door, he informed me he was from HFO services and he was chasing a Barclaycard debt. I informed him that I was paying the debt. He said I could not have been, as Barclays had sold on the debt to HFO. I arranged with him to recall a few days later when my husband was home, so I could give him proof of my payment to Payplan. I promptly called payplan and was told by them, to aquire a debt ref no. so they could transfer any payments to HFO. I phoned HFO for debt ref no. they insisted it was a different debt, so I told them to call my caseworker at payplan. They did and it was eventually agreed it was the same debt. Hfo then called me and told me they needed to call for me to sign a form for me to transfer the payment. I asked them to post it, they said that if I didn't sign that day the case would go to court for possession of my goods. I arranged for them to call a few hours later. In the meantime someone from HFO called I was out, my husband took the call and was told by HFO that they do not deal with debt management companies as they are not reputable, and I needed to make a payment arrangement direct to them (they disclosed information to my husband without my permission also to my neighbours when they called, leading to major embarrassment on my part). The gentleman called in the afternoon, he made me an offer of reducing the debt by £600 with payments of £30 per month, with no interest charges added, if I payed them direct. I told him I wanted to continue to pay payplan. He then wrote down a list of visible assets in my property on a pre-litigation form, asked my husband about his income, which he would not divulge, he asked who owned the vehicle outside, my husband told him it was his. I told him, that they were not entitled to take my husbands property, as I ran up the debt before we were married. He told me didn't make a difference. My income is only £400 a month, made up of family credit and child benefit, I have no assets. As you can imagine my husband is quite upset, supportive but upset. I am actually thinking of moving in with my mother to protect my husbands assets.

I spoke to payplan, gave them the number of the agent, she spoke to him, he was very rude to her and denied everything, eventhough I have a copy of the form he filled in, with notes of the car and an estimated value, and a note that my husband would not divulge his income on it. Payplan spoke to HFO services offices, they said they would not take less than a payment of £193 per month, if they didnot get this they were going to put a charge against my house. They would not be able to do this anyway, as I rent my property. The total debt stands at £4200, minus what payplan have paid Barclays for the last couple of years. The debt is still the same amount now with HFO as it was originally was with Barclays. They also told me that if it goes to Court the debt would probably double with costs and I wouldn't have an item left in my house.

I have two small children, I take 40mg of prozac per day for depression, as I suffered an injury during the birth of my son, which has severly affected my mobility. If it wasn't for my children, I don't think I would be able to continue. Please any help or advice would be appreciated, as I am now living day to day in fear of bailiffs, which is severly affecting my mental health.

[sarah13]

hello

before i start i must say that i am no expert, i will only be able to advise what i would do in the situation.

 

Poor you but dont worry so much, even in the unlikely case that they take you to court, you will only have to pay what you can afford. Court is threatened alot but in my case made my debt much easier to handle. Also you will be able to detail all you have paid and include evidence etc.

 

I would call your local cab and see what they say. my cab have a debt branch which helped me enormously, even attending court with me. Take a deep breath and call them now- let us know your progress.

 

Sarah

[welshmammy]

I should also add, I was told they would scrutinize the original agreement, if I was as much as 1p overestimating my income, I would be reported to the police for obtaining monies by deception. The agent that called at my property told me this.

[Jacqueline07]

This is outrageous - this man should be shot at dawn in my opinion. I'm no expert - and I hope that someone else comes along who knows a lot more about DCAs than I do - but all of your post seems to me that he was acting way out of order. Try not to let them intimidate you - I know it's hard - but its obvious that you are trying to clear the debt. I would do as sarah said before - contact CAB or some other help. I don't know much about Payplan but they must be able to act on your behalf. Read around this debt forum as there is lots of good advice on here.

 

Chin up - you can sort this.

 

Also, are there charges on these accounts - can you send a subject access request to Barclaycard to see. Worth a look-see.

 

All the best - Jackie

[sarah13]

they are trying to scare you and they should not be allowed to get away with it. Sadly most of people who are baliffs are sad and use their jobs to give themselves a big power boosts- bit like school bullys they pray on the weaker (like us the ones who cant afford to pay!) You should contact the company you had the orginal agreement with and let them know what is happening, if they dont make it stop then contact the Financial Ombudman- i would imagine this would be investigated.

 

I know where you are with debt- i have been there. too scared to answer the door, curtains closed, cant ask any of the kids friends round in case baliff calls- it really does bring you down but keep centering on your kids to bring you back.

 

Have you tried Citizens Advice yet?

[Tristesse]

Ok firstly this is a very saddening story and i'm very sorry you're going through this but things get easier from here!

 

Doorstep Collectors have no powers what so ever. You or I could be one if we were that way inclined so do not fear.

 

You do need to get this stopped and it is very easily done. Write to them:

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Due to Harassment I am only willing to communicate with your company in writing. All phone and 'Door Step' Calls must stop immediately.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Further to this all calls from your Doorstep Collectors must also cease unconditionally and with immediate effect. I note that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Take note, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

_______________________

 

These people are a joke and are fully aware of the law they just continue to abuse it.

 

On the other points raised ignore the bit of paper listing your possesion it's complete rubbish and a scare tactic. You are quite right they cannot take anything belonging to your husband and without you first defaulting on a CCJ and then possibly not replying to a courts attachment of earnings order and then letting a bailiff in your possesions will not be taken.

 

Send this letter to the company HFO and if the doorstep collector calls again either hand it to him if you want to or put it in an envelope and attach it to the door with a nice welcome message on the front. Language in my opinion is the least he deserves.

 

Next its time to report for breaching the Data Protection Act. I'm not a 100% sure on who to contact about this but when I had problems i just contact the OFT and they referred me to trading standards.

 

Have you claimed back your charges yet? If not there will most likely be some if you've defaulted and even little bits help. This will also put the debt into dispute and give you breathing space.

 

So to finnish off.

 

1) Send that letter recorded asap.

2) Contact the OFT for breach of data protection

3) Have a think about charges and reply if you think there are some no matter how small

4) Don't worry by posting here you're taking the first step in the right direction and you will start to feel better as I have.

 

Cheers

[DanP1973]

Next time he calls dont let him in. He has no legal right to set foot on your property unless you invite him in or he has a court order. IF he wont leave, call the Police reporting someone trying to gain entry to your home. There is a legal ruling on this dating back to the 1950s (someone else will be able to quote it for you) that states the only people that are allowed to knock at your door unannounced are Postmen and poeple lost and looking for directions.

 

Equally remind him that unless he has a court order he cannot legally take anything from your house.

 

Call his / their bluff - Say "Take me to court". A Judge will not is an instruction to take more money than you can afford and will look very dimly on any company that are trying to badger you into paying more, despite you already having an agreement in place. Remind them of this.

 

Next time you speak to them request that all future communication be made in writing (that way you have proof of the BS theyre telling you) If the calls continue send them a this letter to stop the phone calls -

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Ref: Account Number:

Despite my instruction regarding any communication from your company, which stated that I require all communications in writing, your telephone calls continue.

 

This behaviour constitutes harassment; my instruction in the letter dated 7th of Feb 2007 clearly stated that I require all communications in writing. Do not telephone me again and remove any telephone numbers you hold for me from your systems.

 

Your telephone calls are in breach of the Office of Fair Trading guidelines. If you continue to telephone me after the receipt of this letter an official complaint, together with a log recording the times and frequency of the calls will be passed both to that office and to the Trading Standards office. For your information, note that all telephone calls are recorded.

 

This type of debt collection method is contrary to the ‘Administration of Justice Act 1970’ in that it is intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. Your methods will not be tolerated. Should the telephone calls not cease immediately a formal complaint, containing copies of all correspondence including yours, will be submitted to the relevant authorities. This will be relevant to questions of your fitness to hold a licence under the Consumer Credit Act, whether or not it results in a prosecution.

 

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

 

I trust that I have made myself understood on this matter.

 

Yours faithfully

-------------------------------------

Also might be worth sending them a request for a copy of your Credit Agreement that they should legally hold before pursuing you. If they dont have it, which they probably wont, they are cannot contact you to gain payment until they come up with that paperwork.

Use this letter -

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Reference Number XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account.

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

I enclose a £1 Postal Order in payment of the statutory fee and Data Protection Request. PO Number ref XXXXXXX Voucher ID XXXXXXXX

I understand a copy of the credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days of the receipt of this recorded delivery letter.

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

Yours faithfully

 

------------------------

Ensure that all letters are sent recorded delivery.

But most importantly stop worrying.The law is actually on your side as you are not hiding from paying off this debt.

 

I would stringly advise contacting the Office of Fair Trading, The Financial Obudsman, Trading Standards and the Citizen's Advice Bureau

[adelaidebull]

I might be wrong here but isn't it a criminal offence to impersonate a court official i.e. a baliff,because to my understanding they are the only ones able to writ down what you own...

Taken from the OFT Debt collection guidance

2 UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES

Communication

2.1 It is unfair to communicate, in whatever form, with consumers in an unclear,

inaccurate or misleading manner.

2.2 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. use of official looking documents intended or likely to mislead

debtors as to their status, for example, documents made to resemble court

claims.

b. leaving out or presenting information in such a way that it

creates a false or misleading impression or exploits debtors'

lack of knowledge

c. those contacting debtors not making clear who they are, who

they work for, what their role is, what the purpose of the

contact is

d. unnecessary and unhelpful use of legal and technical language, for

example, use of Latin phrases

e. failing to provide debtors or creditors with information on status

of debts, for example, not providing requested balance statements when

reasonably requested

f. contacting debtors at unreasonable times

g. ignoring or disregarding debtors' legitimate wishes in respect

of when and where to contact them, for example, shift workers who

ask not to be telephoned during certain times of the day

h. asking or instructing debtors to make contact on premium rate

telephone numbers

False representation of authority and/or legal position

2.3 Those contacting debtors must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their authority

and/or the correct legal position.

2.4 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. falsely implying or claiming authority, for example, claiming to work on

instructions from the courts, claiming to be bailiffs or, in Scotland,

sheriff officers or messenger-at-arms

b. falsely implying or stating that action can or will be taken when it legally

cannot, for example, referring to bankruptcy or sequestration proceedings

when the balance is too low to qualify for such proceedings or claiming a

right of entry when no court order to this effect has been granted

c. misrepresenting status or backing, such as

• using a logo which falsely implies government backing

• using a business name which implies public body status, or

• falsely claiming trade body membership

d. falsely implying or stating that action has been taken when it has not, for

example, that civil action has been taken or that a court judgment has

already been obtained

e. falsely implying or stating that failure to pay a debt is a criminal

offence or that criminal proceedings will be brought

f. pursuing third parties for payment when they are not liable

g. taking or threatening to take court action in the wrong jurisdiction, for

example, taking action against a Scottish debtor in an English court unless

legally justified.

 

Hope this helps

[KJD]

Hi Welshmammy - just adding a word of encouragement to your situation.

 

Some great advice given already, so that light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter with each post!

 

Don't let this cause problems with hubby - him & the kiddies are so much more important than money. Take it from someone who knows, hun.

 

KJD xx

 

[welshmammy]

I have very limited knowlege of legal matters, if they don't provide a CCA does that mean I don't pay the debt, they can't chase me for it? I understand there is a 12 day limit on providing the item, what happens if they don't provide the item requested within the 12 day limit, has the debt been wiped out? I really am lacking in understanding. I have also been put onto a solicitor regarding the harrassment by the DCA, by community legal services team.

[adelaidebull]

They have defaulted on the CCA request.wait another 30 days and its a criminal offence....

They ain't suppose to chase a debt thats in dispute,and because they haven't replied to your CCA request they need a court order to make the debt enforceable...

Currently as it stands the debt is unenforcable ...

I don't think the debt gets wiped clean i sure it won't...

theres a lot more people on here who know more about this subject,i just hope i've told you right and its helpful...

[welshmammy]

I am about to write my CCA. I have the booklets left by HFO, they are very carefully worded, with all the payment methods you could possibly imagine, but there is no address. There are numerous telephone numbers to arrange to take money. Could someone please let me have the address for HFO Services, so I can send my CCA.

Thanks

[welshmammy]

Hi, managed to find HFO website, on the contact us link, it gives a correspondence address, which is a PO box, do the still sign for recorded mail at a PO box? Or, is it an unmanned mail box?

[adelaidebull]

Hi, managed to find HFO website, on the contact us link, it gives a correspondence address, which is a PO box, do the still sign for recorded mail at a PO box? Or, is it an unmanned mail box?

 

My Recorded Del letter was signed....

i used this adress:

 

HFO Services

PO Box 342

KT14 6 YX

[welshmammy]

Thanks for all the good advice, I have complained to the information Commissioners office and Trading Standards who are looking into my complaints. I Also sent off my CCA today by recorded delivery as instructed. The more I read on these forums the more empowered I feel, completely different from the terror I was experiencing last week. Thankyou all. We will now see what happens next.

[welshmammy]

I received a letter this morning confirming that HFO Services received my CCA request. The letter is actually from Turnbull Rutherford Solicitors, it says the request has been passed to them to deal with. Could anyone help, could there be any data protection breaches here? How can I find out if my information can be shared. Also the last line of the letter states, "Due to high demand we have been advised by our client that there is an eight week delay." Lets hope there is!!!!

[demon_x_slash]

The 'eight week delay' is cotton-wool balls. Your CCA request has a 12 day (plus postage) deadline, then after that a month's deadline. This is set down in law.

[gerryb2]

hi welshmammy - hang in there - you've got some good advice so far. there are some brilliant people on this forum who will help you get your life back! Takes time but you will get there.

Just so you know, Turnbull Rutherford solicitors is a one man solicitor outfit run by Alasdair John Turnbull. Another company listed is Turnbull Rutherford Ltd. Other threads point to him being linked to HFO Services. Does anyone have a company checking account to obtain more info?

[welshmammy]

BUMP! Does anyone have a company checking account to obtain more info?

[pmhcfc]

BUMP! Does anyone have a company checking account to obtain more info?

 

Try PM'ing 'FANTASY CHARGES' he's always really helpful with this sort of sttuff

[welshmammy]

Well 14 days are up, no CCA from HFO Services. I am now going to instruct Payplan to stop any negotiations, or payments that may have been transfered from my initial Payment agreement with Barclays. I should make it perfectly clear to everyone I am not trying to shirk my debt, but after the way HFO have treated me I will not make any payment to them without a fight. If the debt is transfered back to Barclays, I will reinstate my payments to them. But HFO are evil and frightening, and thanks to this forum, I am out to get them!!!!!!!!

[HonoraryRose]

Hi there

 

I'm new to this forum, but I have had huge problems with HFO Services/Turnbull Rutherford. HFO bought my Barclard debt - I'd been made redundant in my 50s and could not find anything close to the salary I had been getting. I am now signed off sick with depression, largely due to this and my ensuing financial problems. Despite being told this, HFO rang me continually, demanding totally unrealistic sums - £70 pm out of a weekly income of £59.20, suggesting I borrow from friends and family etc. They eventually passed it to Turnbull Rutherford, who continued the campaign of telephone calls, again demanding unrealistic amounts, and ignoring any letter I sent them, including a budget drawn up by Consumer Credit Counselling Services. I eventually wrote to them again, reiterating my offer of a "goodwill" payment of £1 pm, and stating that any further communications should be by letter, and I would consider any further telephone calls to be harassment under Section 40 of the Admninistration of Justice Act. They nevertheless telephoned me twice more - the first time, the line dropped, but they rang me this Tuesday, advising me - for the umpteenth time! - that my file was marked "for immediate litigation" - which is nonsense; I do not own my home, I still owe money on my car, and I have an overdraft! Oh, yes, before that, HFO Services had told me they could obtain an Attachment of my benefit, which I believe to be totally incorrect. Anyway, after this last telephone call, I have today emailed the Complaints arm of the Law Society, sending copies of my letters and asking for their advice as to how to proceed. I will let you know what they come up with.

 

Cheers and good luck

 

Rose

[welshmammy]

Thanks Rose for the well wishes. I have just noticed during the last month or so HFO and Turnbull Rutherford seem to be making frequent appearances on this forum, same tactics used against all of us. Perhaps we should all complain to the Law Society. Are these people new to debt collecting? Or have they suddenly decided to get heavy? Perhaps they purchased all of our debts at the same time!!!!!! Anyway, we won't let them get away with it. It might be a good idea to post a thread of what has been happening to you, so we can all keep track of how you are doing. I susbscribe to all HFO threads, this helps each and everyone of us. The thing that really annoys me is Barclaycard were getting a good sum of money from me every month towards my debt, so why sell on a debt that is regularly getting paid back and would be settled within a reasonable period of time. I have paid Barclays quite a large sum already toward the debt, but the sold the whole debt to HFO, not removing what I have already paid, so again it makes me wonder what has happened to the cash I have already paid? Once my CCA request becomes a criminal offence I intend to SAR Barclays to find out. Any more advice on how to proceed will be greatly appreciated.

[Tricia100]

Hi, Im also new to this site and found it by searching the internet to see if anyone else had reported a bad experience with HFO - it would seem this company operates totally unfairly and with unjustified aggression.

 

For those who wish to know their full postal address is as follows:-

 

HFO Services Limited

P O Box 342

Lavender Park Road

West Byfleet

Surrey

KT14 6YX

 

No phone number on any of their correspondence !!

 

In my case, I am finding valuable help and support from the National Debtline tel 0808 808 4000.

 

Good luck to all x

[musado]

Not wishing to hijack this thread, but my wife is also getting threatening letters from HFO Services Litigation.

 

As advised by the CCCS we offered them £1pm as a token payment & included an Income/Expenditure statement to show how bad out finances are since I was made redundant last November.

 

They totally ignored the offer of a token payment & now state my wife is in Default of a failed Payment Arrangement! It gets better....

 

Further on in the letter it states " After 7 days Charges of £35 will be applied to each failed payment and will be added toy our account. Failure to commit to your payment arrangement will also result in Penalty Interest of 5% a month on the arrears and 2% a month on the balance of the account owing"

 

Surely this cant be legal...can it...?

 

However, they did include a freephone number to contact them on, how nice...not!

 

08000192193